Crash's Jezebel in for a Rebuild-Rebuilding an e46 S54 UPDATE on page 26

[Fordkoppie]

Caused due to overheating....

Exactly what I predicted in post #1008 on page 51

...... and detonation between cylinders.

I cant see how this is not as a direct result of bad tuning

---

I really hope you can get a good block to start off with for your next project :thumbs:

 

[Burgy]

Caused due to overheating....

Exactly what I predicted in post #1008 on page 51

...... and detonation between cylinders.

I cant see how this is not as a direct result of bad tuning

Have you read the thread in its entirety to understand or have you read the thread so that you can post a reply?

Before you make a statement like that, go have a proper read of all the symptoms etc and then make your post. Maybe even google a few things and understand what you are posting before you post.. or is that asking too much?

 

[moranor@axis]

guys please allow all the evidence to be presented before looking for what caused this... just look at all the things that have been blamed for the loss of compression so far then then engine is opened and everything changes...

the engine needs a complete strip town and the work done to the block needs to be analysed before we start looking for what caused this

 

[Fordkoppie]

Bad tuning, or lack of tuning = big possibility for detonation.

Especially on forced induction

 

[Burgy]

My comment stands, Fordkoppie.

While I agree with you, this was NOT the case. Go read what in tuning causes detonation. If youd like an explanation, you have my number.

 

[moranor@axis]

Burgy could you please post the ignition timing we have the AFR on the thread but no idea what the ignition timing was doing... this would help clarify what exactly is to blame for the engine damage

 

[Kamal_M]

the engine is stripped down what else are we going to see
the sleeves are of a poor quality and oval
they have moved and anybody who builds these engine will tell you stay away from sleeving them with this bore size
im the mechanic who stripped it and I would never have built this engine in that way, there were lots of errors in the build but that's not what we are discussing here
please im not here to lay blame or to slander anyone like some other people do , im just saying that experience has taught me differently

 

[Fordkoppie]

I dont know why you get so upset Burgy.

Its not as if its a reflection on your tuning. Because you haven't even done the tuning yet. The tuning was some generic half baked base file from a remote company who cant possibly know you live 1400m above sea level, frequently see ambient temperatures in excess of 30 degrees and fitted a smaller pulley for more boost with a non std injector.

As Willy said a few times, it cannot be assumed that the same file will work on 2 different cars with different setups.

 

[zaleonardz]

The bitch slapping backwards and forwards is not going to help.

Chris, for most of the major disappointments with Jezz, I was there to witness your face, and I feel your pain, I can see it in your words

This was a custom build, you have the right to be pissed beyond belief with the first build that went south, that you cannot be blamed for, and now this

Peter is hurt as this is exactly like an artist being told "your worthless" you are hurt because this is going to cost you way more money, and I for one know better then the rest what you have spent on this car, and for that my heart bleeds for you.

I suggest you two kiss and make up, do not put it on youtube....

Get the car back to peter, and like gentleman, mediate the issue.

Custom builds are exactly just that, custom.

Ask the question, if this was a stock build, built by peter in the factory prescribed way, would the motor have lasted ?

Does Peter profess to be a any high performance tuner, that has been there done that, did he promise you that he can deliver on the ponies.

Seriously guys, a resleave is not that expensive, Peter has offered his time,

It sounds stupid. but reading the above, it sounds like a one stupid bolt was not tightened to build design, not even engineering specs, and thats why we are sitting where we are, on a fscking power steering pump..

I say return her to manufacturing specifications, and drive her like she was meant to be driven.

5 pages of he said she said, is going to bring you nowhere to resolve.

Take emotion out of this, and look at it logically, and get to a logical conclusion.

More importantly, get this away from people adding fuel to the fire just cause they are bored and have nothing to do lunch time.

Knowing Chris, Burgy and Peter, I know you guys can work this out.

Chris, Peter is hurting just as badly as what you are,

Fuck dude, I dont know what to say...

 

[Fordkoppie]

mototechnik - I would like your honest opinion on sleeving a cast iron block in general, especially in SA.
Because its really difficult to find engineering shops who can actually do what they claim they can.

In future, generally speaking, when a block(any) is worn, would you sleeve it, and make the bore smaller than the original to gain more wall thickness, or rebore the mother material to the first oversize, or would you simply not sleeve at all? ie - get a new block => $$$$

 

[zaleonardz]

Chris, AKA forkoppie this time

I hear what your saying about SA talent, and that the resleave could be a fsckup.

I believe Peter is pedantic enough to reject the job if it is not done to satisfaction, especially with what is now on the cards...

---

Edit

I would not rebore, as Gizmo's argument is valid, especially on an S Motor.

I would not re-block, because where are you going to find a decent unmolested S block for this car, you wont, complete motor or nothing else.

Wait for engineering to come back on head and take it from there.

 

[moranor@axis]

zaleonardz

very well said I have spoken to both Chris and Peter
have not spoken to Burgy but im sure EVERYBODY is hurting
NO ONE wanted this build to end up here

I am quite sure everyone involved did the best they could to make Jezebel the best she could be

it is very sad and im sure every fanatic that has followed this build feels it

 

[Fordkoppie]

I believe Peter is pedantic enough to reject the job if it is not done to satisfaction,

He sure is.

The problem though, is that its impossible to determine through post engineering Non Destructive Examining tests what the engineer has done.

Everything can measure and inspect perfectly, but if the pressing of the sleeves are too tight, fatigue cracks will eventually form.

My father encountered this same thing with a Chevy V8 before as well

 

[zaleonardz]

@fordkoppie

Yes sir you are indeed correct. and your fathers example is a perfect one.

And on the Chev, they measure in mm not micron's.. thus this is even more significant.

So it could very well be a screwup as well, and it could be down to the chinese replica rebranded as US, sold for the cheapest, resold for the higest.

But the alternative is a Japan auto Motor at 60k (i am just guessing here) that will most surely need bearings before the day is over, and who knows the history behind this possible import motor.

@ Chris Aka Crash
We all need to keep in mind that this motor has been opened publically, on no less then 4 occasions, and metallurgical properties do no change, regardless of what you spend on internals.

I do not want to chose sides here, and I do not advocate one party over another, thats for the keyboard warriors to do.

I just know that both Peter and Chris are in pain, and that both of you are man enough to work though this monumental cockup...

I say it again, Jezz is like that incredibly hot stripper at the end of the bar..... But we all know how this ends...

 

[BillyBob]

Because my car is not a miata. oh... And BMW e46 m3 o2 sensors are wide band, not narrow band sensors. You guys work on these cars but you don't know this? -- Source

No they're not... they're narrow band sensors (just like a Miata)

If they were wide-band, you'd be able to log AFR's via the MSS54 ECU.




Head gasket failure could have been caused (or compounded) by numerous things.

Detonation or hot spots
Wrong gasket used (I'm assuming you used the JE Cut Ring gasket?)
Incorrect secondary torque settings
Poorly machined block or head
Block and sleeves not expanding evenly, causing the gasket's seal to fail and material to burn
Overheating warping the block or head


The sleeves cracking in all cylinders could be detonation (though it's doubtful that lean running under 2000 RPM would have detonated badly enough to do that), or would point to damage from overheating - cast iron block and sleeves expanding at different rates. Cross-firing between 4/5's gasket failure wouldn't cause damage to other sleeves.

Similarly, the pistons could have scored the sleeves during the overheating - and started slapping subsequently... you'll have to check whether the bores have gone oval (warped), or whether it's worn right round the piston (expansion related to overheating) - which would be consistent with the damage seen in the sleeves.

Once again, it all has to be stripped down completely and measured - pistons, bores, head, etc... and unless things have clearly warped (and thus cracked the liners) due to overheating, you're left with detonation as a culprit.

@Gizmo - Boosting an 87.5mm bore is somewhat dicey, but it's been done successfully with 800+ whp turbo builds... the block was sleeved for that very reason. In principle, it SHOULD have held together just fine given the parts that went in there.

Now it's just a matter of identifying the cause of failure. Component measurements will tell the tale.

 

[Burgy]

Apologies for my outburst, I am very hurt by this and was out of line.

Fordkoppie, i apologise.

I will post some stuff regarding the file etc possibly tomorrow

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

 

[BillyBob]

Apologies for my outburst, I am very hurt by this and was out of line.

Fordkoppie, i apologise.

I will post some stuff regarding the file etc possibly tomorrow

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

Burgs - did you guys ever pull knock-sensor logs?

 

[Gizmo]

@Gizmo - Boosting an 87.5mm bore is somewhat dicey, but it's been done successfully with 800+ whp turbo builds... the block was sleeved for that very reason. In principle, it SHOULD have held together just fine given the parts that went in there.

Don't forget they use cutting rings (pyramid rings) when they go that large a bore to prevent the head gasket blowing between cylinders.

---

Unfortunately a cut ring gasket wasn't used on Jezzi, its just a cometic MLS gasket.

---

Crash, I think I can get you a bare S54 block, I just hope its still available.:skit:

 

[BillyBob]

@Crash_Nemesis

The_Walleth (banned as though he now may be) has an unmolested block that will be going up for sale soon - might be exactly what you're looking for.

 

[cOlDFuSiOn]

This is horrid indeed :blueCry:

Would you risk another rebuild with used parts? I surely would not, contact BMW, they must have an S54 lying around somewhere even in Germany. Buy a new crated motor.

If this were my car, I would leave it and just get a glorious S54 N/A motor back in there. My 2c.

Best of luck deciding the next steps.