Crash's Jezebel in for a Rebuild-Rebuilding an e46 S54 UPDATE on page 26

BillyBob

Active member
@Gizmo - I thought they'd have used a Cut Ring JE on the build, as per my previous post.

That said, while the oversize Cometic MLS gaskets don't have a great reputation, all things being equal - it should have held together in this application for longer than it did...

Given damage to all the sleeves and pistons, I'd wager its failure being caused by an external influence - which could also have affected a cut-ring gasket given the condition of the sleeves

Point being, I doubt the gasket was the cause of all this... it looks to be a secondary point of failure, after the sleeves and block cracked.
 

Willy

Member
Fordkoppie said:
I dont know why you get so upset Burgy.

Its not as if its a reflection on your tuning. Because you haven't even done the tuning yet. The tuning was some generic half baked base file from a remote company who cant possibly know you live 1400m above sea level, frequently see ambient temperatures in excess of 30 degrees and fitted a smaller pulley for more boost with a non std injector.

As Willy said a few times, it cannot be assumed that the same file will work on 2 different cars with different setups.

:withStu:
 

Peter@AEW

BMWFanatics Advertiser
Official Advertiser
Willy said:
And what spark plugs where in the motor?
As far as I recall a standard set of plugs as specified by the manufacturer at the time of the engine assembly.

I do not recall mention of anything else having been installed post the SC installation.


Crash_Nemesis said:
2.)A month after completion of the rebuild documented on this thread, and after the car had done it's 2000km run in period, I discovered that the car was down on power. The car did not make the same power it made before the rebuild. In fact, it was down 40nm of torque compared to a dyno reading done just before the build. We then ran diagnostics on the car and discovered Vanos adaptation errors as well as 02 sensor errors. Peter advised that it was my Vanos and that my solenoid was the issue. With Peter's help, I imported a complete Vanos from the UK, and my original Vanos unit and Solenoid pack were replaced. This sadly, did not solve the issue, which I will talk more about later in the post. By now the supercharger was installed on the car and we were dealing with a new issue. Getting the Bosch Green Giant fuel injectors to work with the original e46 fuel system. Burgy was originally tasked to install the fuel system, but the installation of the injectors was incorrect and fuel leaks were present. Burgy opted to install a braided hose system which I was not happy with. I wanted the stock look. It turns out that the injector rail was damaged during installation. Burgy was honest and admitted his wrong doing and replaced my fuel line and injector rail with new parts and refunded me the money for the install. I then asked Peter to install the fuel system and he happily took on the job. The car was put on a flat bed and sent to Peter. He successfully installed the fuel system and got the injectors working, but he also did a full re-installation of the supercharger, which I never agreed to in the first place. He also charged me for this re installation of the supercharger. Taken a little aback by this, I paid him the full amount, even though it left a bitter taste in my mouth. Peter's reasons for reinstalling the supercharger were because he did not trust Burgy's installation of the supercharger. Peter never gave me a quote on the work being done. In other words, he failed to mention that he would be charging me to reinstall my already installed supercharger. If I knew he was going to charge me R11k for reinstalling something I can do myself, I honestly would have gone elsewhere. I would have actually done it for him. Why would I pay for a supercharger to be reinstalled? I've removed the charger myself no less than three times and successfully mounted it as many times during maintenance and cleaning. But, I paid the man, and took the car back.

The car died a few days later as one of the injectors popped out and fuel sprayed everywhere. Peter fetched the car and fixed this issue.

I need to revisit the first paragraph and correct what is obvious forgetfulness on your part.

The vanos and solenoid were replaced from my stock of parts.
You merely imported the solenoid pack and paid some R1000 odd for it.
I am sure that once you go back to your records you will see that I am correct.
Not nitpicking nor calling you out merely refreshing your memory.
The reason that we changed everything is because the car would be intermittent in its power delivery as well as the way that it idled.
After the complete unit was changed we had no further problems.


As to the supercharger installation I present the following for those that may not have followed the thread in its entirety....and once again reiterate my earlier statement that I advised that there would be a charge for my time.


Oil catch can located in ecu box area

After Oil catch can relocated


Alternator retaining bolt mounting cracked from over tightening bolt.
The oil filter housing had to be welded a second time after it was cracked on a previous occasion from over tightening

Before Idle control valve to plenum pipe


After

Before Air temperature sensor wiring

After



Before Plenum to throttle body pipes.
I unfortunately did not take a pic of the clamps that were originally used nor their location.

After




Over this weekend I shall be posting on the cam timing issues which are still outstanding..

For the record I wish it known to all that I am absolutely distraught to see the condition of the engine.
I share an equal amount of frustration sadness disappointment and a whole lot of other emotions which I am not able to verbalise at present, as Christopher does.

Christopher I share in your pain.
 

Kamal_M

New member
Fordkoppie said:
mototechnik - I would like your honest opinion on sleeving a cast iron block in general, especially in SA.
Because its really difficult to find engineering shops who can actually do what they claim they can.

In future, generally speaking, when a block(any) is worn, would you sleeve it, and make the bore smaller than the original to gain more wall thickness, or rebore the mother material to the first oversize, or would you simply not sleeve at all? ie - get a new block => $$$$
hi fordkoppie
would love to respond but it seems my post are being deleted by some one


dear moderators
why was my post about the sleeves deleted
i said nothing wrong and believe i can comment as i am currently repairing this vehicle
 

Twinz

Forum - Support
Staff member
Damn, how did this mototecnic guy got back on the forum after he was banned?

Chef...please look into this.
:blueCry:
 

VictorMike

///Member
Crash I do not know you from a bar of soap, but my man, my heart goes out to you. I hope you have better luck with this car than you have had up till now...
 

E30 Freak

Member
We all held Peter in high regard on this forum, we all admired Crash for his fanaticism during this entire process of engine rebuild esp after all the setbacks, & Jezzi has a special place in all of our hearts on this forum.

I saw it a few times back in the day running around Cape Town so this car has a special place in my heart, so my heart goes out to you for all this tumoil that is being sent your way bud

I hope you & Peter can come to some sort of a resolution (be it professional or on a personal level) & that you get your baby back on the road so you can finally enjoy her for what it was initially intended for when you purchased it.
 

Twinz

Forum - Support
Staff member
I was not sure what to say on this thread...
E30 Feak....you articulated my feelings spot on. Thx for your words.:clapper:
 

herr bmw

///Member
hi Chris(crash)

haven't been on for a long time and just caught up on this thread,cant believe what I have read,and the pics make me weep

I feel your pain(Navara eventually died),i just hope you get it sorted and running properly so as you can enjoy her.only time I saw it running was the day we went through to pick up the motor for Thunder,tried to coax you to open it up but you didn't,now I realize why.

knowing you ,you wont be throwing in the towel.

please keep us updated

cheers Colin
 

Peter@AEW

BMWFanatics Advertiser
Official Advertiser
Crash_Nemesis said:


Video of Cam timing issue, the errors found on the car, and chain guide tensioner missing.

[align=center][video=youtube]








Further to my undertaking that I shall elaborate on the cam timing herewith my response.

A specific note to Christopher.
Christopher I hold you blameless in the assertions that you have made about the cams being out of time as you do not know enough about their operation to be qualified to comment and are therefore reliant upon the interpretation of others.

So given that you were only the cameraman in the recording of the above video I shall have to ask that Alex aka bahn stormer answer my very specific questions which are as follows.

I have replicated the 8mm lift as recorded on the video and below are the pictures.

Please give a detailed step by step explanation of how you came to that position /gap/reading so that forum can understand.

Christopher also claims in his post that the spline shafts were not located correctly.
Is that the advice you gave him and if so what measuring tool did you use to establish the location of the spline shafts so as to determine their incorrect position.

I specifically ask that you are concise in your response and that you make no ambiguous statements as it will hold up the revelation and we do not want that now do we.

Below is a set of pictures with the factory tool raised some 7,7mm off the exhaust side ledge of the head.
That gives an effective 2,8 degrees deviation and not 15 degrees as you told me that it was out by.

For the tool to be raised 8mm off the exhaust side ledge of the cylinder head it implies that the inlet cam is advanced by 2,8 degrees (+-) and not 15 degrees as you have been telling the whole world or anyone that would listen to your nonsense.(btw a 15 degree advance on the cam when its full range is only some 20 degrees would render the car inoperable,so I am somewhat shocked that you have insisted on perpetuating this laughable nonsense for it implies that you are too lazy to learn at best or a charlatan at worst)





In conclusion I propose that once my questions have been answered Nikhil who is a moderator and technically inclined undertake the cam reading operation as an observer and he can report back to the community about the correctness of the tools along with photographs.
I shall provide links to the reading material that he will have to cover prior to us meeting.
I have 3 s54 engines at present so he can choose anyone :)
 

Lysis

///Member
Thank you for taking the time to write a lengthy response Chris. I’m quite gutted to see the state of your motor man, so I can only begin to empathise with how you must be feeling. Let’s continue, I hope you’ll forgive me for not responding to everything, but not all of it is relevant now that the engine is open.

Crash_Nemesis said:
But these are all still facts, no matter how emotive I may be. I have given visual proof on every account. No accusations without proof. You are a smart kid, but please don't try twist my words. Everything I said was still factual. Now suddenly because I said I wish to be unbiased, everything I said must be non-emotive? I guess everything I have said must now be ignored? …

Chris, please try to distinguish between me twisting your words and me wishing to establish that you are posting emotionally. I didn’t think I’d need to explain how emotions and emotive language influences biases, but since you seem to be lost perhaps read up on this study to see what I mean.
Not once, however, did I suggest that everything you said should be ignored, but since you mention it; should it be Chris?
For the record, no I didn’t assume that you’d made up your mind because you were speaking about my father. Please do not assume that I am subject to the same human frailties as you are. If you present a couple of theories and immediately dismiss most of them and proceed to focus solely on one of them, then I think it’s rather clear what your opinion is. So if you really hadn’t made up your mind before you started posting then I submit that it’s downright irresponsible to start throwing around the accusations you did and focusing your argument the way you did. I think we’ve gone far enough here though, let us not digress.

Crash_Nemesis said:
No, I did not accuse Peter of fitting another Vanos unit. I accused him of fitting another forum members pump disc. There is a difference between the two. Maybe take notes before you make assumptions. I can see that you also read to respond, instead of reading to listen to what I had to say. But yes, I was made aware that he would fit a new Vanos from the UK which I bought.

What you’ve demonstrated is that you read to respond. If you’d have taken some notes before you responded, you’d have seen that the reason your oil pump disc is different is that you can’t mix up ‘type A’ oil pump discs with a ‘type B’ Vanos unit. That’s why your original disc wasn’t fitted, because it didn’t match with the new vanos unit. I referred to the whole unit to simplify matters for all, feel free to continue telling me to stop making assumptions though. If you’d like your oil pump disc back you’ll have to take your whole unit back. I’m sure you’re still welcome to it, but I imagine that you’ll also have to return the rest of the ‘new’ unit with it.

Crash_Nemesis said:
I had grown tired of being told that what I can clearly see is wrong with the car, is impossible according to Peter and that only he can fix it.

I wasn’t aware that offering to pay the man for his labour was equivalent to Peter insisting that only he could fix it.

Crash_Nemesis said:
Because my car is not a miata. oh... And BMW e46 m3 o2 sensors are wide band, not narrow band sensors. You guys work on these cars but you don't know this? -- Source

Chris as far as the o2 sensors are concerned your car may as well be a Miata, I have much respect for TerraPhantm, he sure does know his MSS54 DME. Here however, he is wrong. The S54 in the e46 M3 runs on narrowband sensors and here is the source page 65. There are also examples of other supercharged S54 builds fitting a wide band 02 sensor in place of the stock narrow bands, here is one.
Since you were so concerned about the o2 sensors and the DME behavior under full throttle, let me put your mind at ease. The system goes into open loop under heavy load and full throttle and you can have some sauce with the pudding you’re serving up , here. Something else which is interesting in that article is this:
Note, however, that if the base tune is inaccurate this method will cause the system to “seek” and constantly add or subtract fuel as it tries to maintain control.

I’m still of the opinion that running any kind of forced induction should place the tune file at the forefront of one’s concerns, but I’m not an expert.

Crash_Nemesis said:
First, let me correct you there. We did not allegedly fix the timing. We positively without a doubt matter of factly fixed the timing. Did you not watch that video? Did you not see how bad the timing was? Are you trying to detract again from what is evident, that you guys did a massive cock up and are now trying to divert from your mistake by asking me questions designed to confuse other readers?

Chris, I did watch the video, can you please stop making assumptions. I purposefully used the word allegedly as both you and I were waiting for Peter to make his post about the cam timing. To put forward anything as unequivocal before hearing from both parties is to cast judgment before hearing the case.
Incidentally, I see that in your post of the still picture of the cam tool you mention that it is of the exhaust cam. I recognise that it’s a still from your video of the timing where the equivalent section of film quite clearly shows that it is the intake cam being checked. If you can’t differentiate between the two then perhaps you shouldn’t be theorising about why your engine turned out the way it did.

Crash_Nemesis said:
Sigh, Alex, dude... Seriously? Maybe look at the RPMs at the time where it shows the AFR in the 20's, you will notice that the RPM's are dropping, thus indicating that the car is no longer under load/accelerating and that the throttles are closed. All cars will do this. The AFR's will spike when your foot is taken off the pedal and the throttles close. Simple. Even an NA car will spike this high.

I’d appreciate it if we could continue any future discourse without your condescension. Perhaps you should look again at the RPMs and take note of the initial AFRs where the engine RPM begins picking up. The AFRs spike quite badly to very lean. Surely you are not suggesting that, with the revs clearly climbing, the car is not under load and the throttles are closed?
 

Kimeran

///Member
Peter, you constantly saying that Alex is talking nonsense etc.
Maybe he is exaggerating the degree of which the cam timing was out, but can you please explain to me how 3 cars which were sent to you, are now running well after it was sent to Alex?
 

BahnStormer

New member
To the forum members, as you can see by my post count I'm not a very active user on the forum, therefore before I begin I must give a brief background of myself..

I am not a full time mechanic or BMW Mastertech and don't claim to be, however I have always been very mechanically minded, particularly when it comes to cars..so much so that I won the science prize at school for building a solar powered car, got awarded a scholarship to complete mechanical engineering at Columbia University in New York as well as have a patent pending for a hydrogen powered engine, which has been praised by the engineering department at Columbia for being potentially industry-changing.. so I know the difference between straight and skew..

I have always serviced, worked on and modified my own cars (to the limitations of my garage) as I quite frankly get freaked out at the thought of not knowing what was done or not done to my car.. I have come to the conclusion (through experience) that the standard of workmanship which I expect is an extremely rare commodity in South Africa and is astronomical in price, hence why I do things myself..I work on all of my cars and my family's cars, as well as friends who have gotten to know me, but I must reinforce that this is not my business.. I do it for fun.

I learnt about Vanos because I had every Vanos issue happen to me, which can be seen in this thread below..

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=44469

I have experienced incorrect timing symptoms (detonation, hesitations and inconsistent power and torque delivery) as I myself had incorrect timing as a consequence of not using the correct timing tool.. I used Pythagoras and geometry to calculate the correct angles, however I set up the cams to be perpendicular to the block (which was incorrect), purely because I understood that that was what the cam bridge tool did.. Consequently I got hold of the correct tool and have rectified my own car, and as a few of the forum members can attest, my car runs very smoothly now and gives strong dyno figures for a bone stock car.. YOU CANNOT SET THE TIMING WITHOUT THE CORRECT TOOL.

At this stage I must add that I am a strong believer in setting these cars up stock.. Gone are the days of Golf II GTis, vernier pullies and running hotter cam advancements, because this is what the Vanos does..in real time. On that point, the Vanos CANNOT do it's job if the timing isn't calibrated to stock..the computer needs to have accurate reference points in order to work the way it was designed to..and these engines were designed to have high output with a linear and broad torque response. It's as simple as that. Rolls Royce Aerospace (the manufacturers of S54 Vanos) know what they are doing.

Peter, I got to know you last year and we got along very well.. You are very passionate about your work and appear to be a very caring man. I truly sympathise with both your and Chris's pain, as you put your heart into a masterpiece of an engine and Chris has spent a dear fortune to make his dream a reality. I can understand why emotions are running high, and I am confident that once the dust has settled this matter will be resolved fairly and amicably.

Having said that, we are here to get to the bottom of a problem where the ultimate intention of this thread at this stage is to conclude responsibility for the misfortune experienced by Jezebel. Maybe she just doesn't like her name and is being moody about it..

The request for me to go through the inns and outs of my timing procedures and how I came to my conclusion that the timing is out is simply implying that my work is in question, and judging by the nature of this thread, this is going to lead to an endless backwards and forwards of poking, emotions, trolling and apportioning blame. I am not here to correct anyone or be corrected.. I am not here to add fuel for the entertainment of browsers and fence-sitters. I merely offered to help those who asked for my help, and we achieved results. Great results.

Everyone who has brought their S54 to me to redo the vanos and timing after it was set by you has experienced
- an improvement in low end torque
- a higher maximum power reading at the dyno
- a flatter and more consistent torque delivery
- significantly less hesitation
- significantly less preignition/detonation
- a better driving experience
- no more fault codes related to Vanos and timing

The results speak, not photos, emotive words or semantics.

A final point to add is that, of all the S54s I redid the timing on, every single one of them had incorrect timing BY DIFFERENT DEGREES. This inconsistancy indicates to me that it is not merely a matter of the use of an incorrect tool, because if this was the case then every car's timing would be out by exactly the same amount each time. This leads me to conclude that incorrect procedure was followed, in addition to the incorrect timing tool being used.
 

Peter@AEW

BMWFanatics Advertiser
Official Advertiser
BahnStormer said:
To the forum members, as you can see by my post count I'm not a very active user on the forum, therefore before I begin I must give a brief background of myself..

I am not a full time mechanic or BMW Mastertech and don't claim to be, however I have always been very mechanically minded, particularly when it comes to cars..so much so that I won the science prize at school for building a solar powered car, got awarded a scholarship to complete mechanical engineering at Columbia University in New York as well as have a patent pending for a hydrogen powered engine, which has been praised by the engineering department at Columbia for being potentially industry-changing.. so I know the difference between straight and skew..

I have always serviced, worked on and modified my own cars (to the limitations of my garage) as I quite frankly get freaked out at the thought of not knowing what was done or not done to my car.. I have come to the conclusion (through experience) that the standard of workmanship which I expect is an extremely rare commodity in South Africa and is astronomical in price, hence why I do things myself..I work on all of my cars and my family's cars, as well as friends who have gotten to know me, but I must reinforce that this is not my business.. I do it for fun.

I learnt about Vanos because I had every Vanos issue happen to me, which can be seen in this thread below..

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=44469

I have experienced incorrect timing symptoms (detonation, hesitations and inconsistent power and torque delivery) as I myself had incorrect timing as a consequence of not using the correct timing tool.. I used Pythagoras and geometry to calculate the correct angles, however I set up the cams to be perpendicular to the block (which was incorrect), purely because I understood that that was what the cam bridge tool did.. Consequently I got hold of the correct tool and have rectified my own car, and as a few of the forum members can attest, my car runs very smoothly now and gives strong dyno figures for a bone stock car.. YOU CANNOT SET THE TIMING WITHOUT THE CORRECT TOOL.

At this stage I must add that I am a strong believer in setting these cars up stock.. Gone are the days of Golf II GTis, vernier pullies and running hotter cam advancements, because this is what the Vanos does..in real time. On that point, the Vanos CANNOT do it's job if the timing isn't calibrated to stock..the computer needs to have accurate reference points in order to work the way it was designed to..and these engines were designed to have high output with a linear and broad torque response. It's as simple as that. Rolls Royce Aerospace (the manufacturers of S54 Vanos) know what they are doing.

Peter, I got to know you last year and we got along very well.. You are very passionate about your work and appear to be a very caring man. I truly sympathise with both your and Chris's pain, as you put your heart into a masterpiece of an engine and Chris has spent a dear fortune to make his dream a reality. I can understand why emotions are running high, and I am confident that once the dust has settled this matter will be resolved fairly and amicably.

Having said that, we are here to get to the bottom of a problem where the ultimate intention of this thread at this stage is to conclude responsibility for the misfortune experienced by Jezebel. Maybe she just doesn't like her name and is being moody about it..

The request for me to go through the inns and outs of my timing procedures and how I came to my conclusion that the timing is out is simply implying that my work is in question, and judging by the nature of this thread, this is going to lead to an endless backwards and forwards of poking, emotions, trolling and apportioning blame. I am not here to correct anyone or be corrected.. I am not here to add fuel for the entertainment of browsers and fence-sitters. I merely offered to help those who asked for my help, and we achieved results. Great results.

Everyone who has brought their S54 to me to redo the vanos and timing after it was set by you has experienced
- an improvement in low end torque
- a higher maximum power reading at the dyno
- a flatter and more consistent torque delivery
- significantly less hesitation
- significantly less preignition/detonation
- a better driving experience
- no more fault codes related to Vanos and timing

The results speak, not photos, emotive words or semantics.

A final point to add is that, of all the S54s I redid the timing on, every single one of them had incorrect timing BY DIFFERENT DEGREES. This inconsistancy indicates to me that it is not merely a matter of the use of an incorrect tool, because if this was the case then every car's timing would be out by exactly the same amount each time. This leads me to conclude that incorrect procedure was followed, in addition to the incorrect timing tool being used.

This thread is about Christopher's car as highlighted by you and many others so we will focus on Christopher's cam timing.

Alex you are being obtuse.

Your claim is that the cam timing was out by 15 degrees.
A video has been posted and published on the web based upon your intervention and feedback to Christopher. Said feedback has motivated Christopher to make certain allegations about the state of tune on his car and my direct involvement in the cams being out by 15 degrees.

Having the factory tool and following the factory procedure will time the cams to the factory spec and we are agreed on that.

To recap
Your assertion to me as well as to Christopher was that the cam timing was out by 15 degrees based upon video footage.
Using the video footage provided by Christopher it was possible to calculate the intake cam angle at 2,8 degrees advanced which indicates an error factor on your part of 5 times.
.

The questions as posed are:
1.How did you verify that the cams were out of tune(as per the video post)
2.How did you verify that the splines were set incorrectly.


Either retract your statements publicly or answer the questions...simple no?

If you are unwilling to answer my questions then it follows that we cannot pursue this line of inquiry.
 

922-ZN

Well-known member
IMO bahnstormers results have spoken for themselves in the members vehicles that he has correcred so far peter
 

faisel

New member
I would beg to differ peter has worked on 2 of my m3 s and must say both respond greatly after his work. Are we going to crucify him before letting all parties involved to respond in totality,what if he is right and not his fault. He has been a benefit to this forum and the no of hits on his post are second to none. Also note he did offer to rebuild the motor without having opened it showing that it was not about the money but merely as a learning curve for him and the rest of us

And guys yes I will continue to use his fine services as one dispute doesent mean he is not good at what he does

Just my 2c
 
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