Crash's Jezebel in for a Rebuild-Rebuilding an e46 S54 UPDATE on page 26

[Crash_Nemesis]

Hey Theo, go back a page, some changes needed to be done, you can read about them from yesterday... we will only be starting Jezebel in the coming week as opposed to tomorrow (Sunday). Had to send the Supercharger and Manifold to engineers to build us a pipe to connect the two. The pipes we had just didn't flow lekker and were silicon. Couldn't get a good angle from the supercharger to the intake.

Remember, I am running a VF engineering supercharger, but with an Active Autowerke intake. VF don't use and intercooler, so the supercharger exhaust is aiming toward where the OEM M3 airbox intake would be. Active Autowerke do use an intercooler, so the intake for their airbox, is aiming downwards to make connection to an intercooler easier.

Because Vortech superchargers run much cooler than other superchargers, we are not running an intercooler for now. When I can get the correct size cooler and piping and boost 9psi, I will install the cooler, but for now at 4-6psi I will only lose boost pressure due to the parasitic drag of the intercooler. Vortech have confirmed this.

So... hence why we having a connection pipe from the supercharger exhaust to the manifold intake.

Hope this explains it. I really was looking forward to getting her up and running this weekend, but another two days is not the end of the world.

 

[Rommies]

Peter...come in...peter come in....do yiu have nice coffee at your house? I have a feeling my body wants to drink some coffee at your house :rollsmile:

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

 

[Gizmo]

I think you should hold out until you do have an intercooler, it would be sad to see all this work ruined because you were too impatient...

 

[gavsadler]

I think you should hold out until you do have an intercooler, it would be sad to see all this work ruined because you were too impatient...

+1

Put baby powder in your pants, it will help soothe the itching.

 

[herr bmw]

I think you should hold out until you do have an intercooler, it would be sad to see all this work ruined because you were too impatient...

+1000000

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

No offence Gizmo, but VF engineering, Vortech and many other e46 M3 drivers have driven with this exact supercharger at 4-6psi with no intercooler.

The car will be fine. If anything, it will be a few weeks before we move up onto the intercooler. You forget that I ran my 323i @ 6psi for a year without an intercooler and this exact charger. You also forget that the vortech charger runs at approximately half the impeller speed when compared to a typical planetary unit at exact same boost levels, thus creating far less heat. This is not a roots type supercharger that creates massive heat.

So while a roots stye supercharger may look like it creates more power at first, it also creates more heat. Thus that power eventually gets heat soaked and requires an intercooler or water meth integration to work effectively.

I am running VF engineerings stage 1 kit for now. Which is 4 psi with no cooler. Take a look at it below. I will upgrade to stage 3 in the coming months as soon as I feel comfortable with the power. I don't believe in jumping straight to 9psi.

http://vf-engineering.com/e46-m3/

 

[herr bmw]

i have the old navaras intercooler lying in the garage:fencelook:

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Ha ha... HOW BIG IS IT???

Anything that is between 550mm long, 180mm high and 76mm thick will work. Don't need anything bigger.

 

[BillyBob]

There's a saying in Afrikaans - Jy soek vir kak...

Supercharged 6 psi doesn't sound like much - but take a moment to consider that it's a high compression built S54 engine, attached to a supercharger, under a black metallic bonnet and we're at the height of a Joburg summer, with local fuel quality that's somewhat akin to a mixture of paraffin and moose piss.

Vortech can sprout all the tech jargon and sales speak they like - it's a self-contained unit, and unless that unit has a dedicated fan spinning onto a heatsink assembly, there won't be active cooling going through it. That amazing synthetic oil is going to get hot, and so will the charger body, bearing assembly and charger blades - IE, you'll have one hot air pump compressing your air... now consider that it's sucking up hot air to begin with (incidentally the only thing cooling the charger, as it dumps its heat into the air passing through), which then gets compressed (making the air hotter)... That spells hot air coming out the other side.

Now you're going to expose your 6-digit engine build, to S/C boost conditions sans any form of charge cooling.

All it takes is on dry, acrid, hot day... with a road surface temperature of 40°C flashing up & heating the air getting to your hot engine bay and heat soaked filter, and you'll be getting post-filter temperatures of 60-70°C... before it even gets pushed through the charger.

Add the potential of an unrefined map, a lean spot somewhere in the range while the map is adapting, a tad too much timing, and a garage that accidentally dumped 93 octane into their 95 tank - and all your money and Peter's hard work can be undone in a matter of seconds.

If you're not going to hold out for an intercooler, at least fit water-methanol injection to cool the charge for the time being... it gives the added advantage of being able to tune for it while the map's being written, and gives you the extra peace of mind that you won't suffer an electrical issue in the form of a con-rod embedding itself in your alternator...

 

[Gizmo]

Crash I agree with you about roots superchargers, they are the cheapest and therefore the least efficient supercharger there is. But that is besides the point of experiencing heatsoak that you will run into even in your low boost levels without meth kit or intercooler to prevent it. The time, money and patience put into this motor does not deserve heatsoak in my opinion.

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Bob. I ran 6psi on my 323i for well over a year. She's good china.

Thanks Gizmo, I see where you are coming from.

I will say it one more time. I am running 4 psi, nothing higher.

I am test fitting an intercooler today. If it fits, I will drive the car straight to a place where I can get piping made, and thus get them installed asap. Vortech do not run any form of air charge cooling on their 4psi kits as the boost level is so low, and the charger is so efficient, that while using an intercooler, they lost 2psi and had very little change in air temps. Believe me Bob, California sun gets way hotter than our sun. I lived there for 8 months. I know. VF engineering is from Cali.

Thanks for the concerns chaps.

 

[Nikhil]

and u have dropped the compression with a gasket :idea:

 

[BillyBob]

Bob. I ran 6psi on my 323i for well over a year. She's good china.

Eeerrrmmm... you do realize that cramming 6 psi into an understressed 2.5L making 125 kW @ 5500 RPM isn't quite the same thing as pushing it into a highly strung 3.2L making 252 kW @ 7900 RPM, right?

The charger will have to work approximately twice as hard / spin twice as fast to maintain 6 psi positive manifold pressure on an S54, compared to the M52 in your old 323i, and there's that much less room for error in the M3 application, because of smaller tolerances.

Saturday you were still planning on 4 - 6 psi... So now it's suddenly 4 psi, and no more? Hmmmkay then.

 

[Nick]

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Bob, firstly, your knowledge of every subject known to man absolutely astounds me. Secondly you need to learn to read before replying. I am boosting 4psi while I run the engine in. 9psi when the engine is run in and I am comfortable with the power.

So you reckon my engine will go pop because I ran 4psi with no intercooler. That's a funny story. Maybe you should go work for VF engineering and explain to them why their design is wrong and go change their kits.

Cool story bro.

Oh I forgot... did I mention I was running the engine in.

In case you were unaware of what that means... The car will never see anything above 4000rpm during this period.

 

[Gizmo]

Lets not forget the fact of less air here at reef level to cool the supercharger and radiator. You are more likely to get heatsoak here @6000ft than at the coast where all these US kits are tested/installed without intercooling, just keep that in mind.

 

[S1NGH 001]

Guys lets not ruin a great thread :thumbdo:

I'm sure Crash knows what he's doing :flyfun:

 

[moranor@axis]

this thread is going south quickly... guys please try be civil about this or I will have to lock the thread...

Debate is good but it is not good when it starts to get personal...

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Good point Gizmo. I did think of that.

Andy is joining me today to test fit an intercooler. I have another one I looked at about two weeks ago that we will also consider. If they fit and I am happy, the car will go for intercooler piping next week.

Worst case scenario, the car will run below 4000rpm without an intercooler for a week.

I was thinking of running the car in without the charger but both VF and Vortech confirmed that the charger is very efficient at 4psi and there is very little to worry about in terms of heat soak.

 

[Dippies]

No no guys play nice. :argue::nono:

Crrash how long till we see her in action