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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
135i Big Turbo Build
- Thread starter Girevik77
- Start date
Girevik77
Active member
Video of the 500 Whp dyno run:
So the weekend was great. I stopped by FR&R on Friday afternoon and everyone was in a buzz to get all the cars prepped for tuner wars on Saturday.
In between all the madness we managed to run my car on the dyno a few more times, which yielded the results in the video above 513 Whp. This was done @ 20Psi boost with 95 octane 10% ethanol, 1 can NF and water meth.
We tried to dyno on Map 7, 23Psi boost but we exceeded the range of the OEM MAP sensor and it failsafed back into map 4.
We got the car together to such an extent that I could drive it for the weekend. And I can vouch that this car was the cause of a few big petrol heads soiling their undies this weekend, including mine. :fencelook:. It really is very very quick. I still have the run flats on and that adds to the bottom clenching. If I plant it in 3rd on the highway the back steps out squirming for traction, it really is insane. I took a friend for a test drive and as soon as the turbo came into boost and the screamer opened he grabbed just about every handle in the car. :crazylaugh:
Most of the time I was playing in Map 1 (15 Psi) which is still scary. Good for ~450 Whp, with the mix that was in, and loads of fun.
The car is going back to FR&R to get the fitment of the bumper sorted, we only just got it on and had to remove the black plastic grills. Leon will trim it a bit to make sure everything goes back. The new MAP sensor will hopefully also go in this week to allow us to boost beyond 20Psi :grin:
Also a friend gave me an used set of semi's that are going on, they still have a bit of life in them and hopefully they can plant the rear a bit better.
I decided not to run the car a the fanatics dyno day yesterday. We are still not 100% happy with all the tuning. Soon though...
Logs are looking very good, I will post a few when we start fine tuning the higher boost maps.
So the weekend was great. I stopped by FR&R on Friday afternoon and everyone was in a buzz to get all the cars prepped for tuner wars on Saturday.
In between all the madness we managed to run my car on the dyno a few more times, which yielded the results in the video above 513 Whp. This was done @ 20Psi boost with 95 octane 10% ethanol, 1 can NF and water meth.
We tried to dyno on Map 7, 23Psi boost but we exceeded the range of the OEM MAP sensor and it failsafed back into map 4.
We got the car together to such an extent that I could drive it for the weekend. And I can vouch that this car was the cause of a few big petrol heads soiling their undies this weekend, including mine. :fencelook:. It really is very very quick. I still have the run flats on and that adds to the bottom clenching. If I plant it in 3rd on the highway the back steps out squirming for traction, it really is insane. I took a friend for a test drive and as soon as the turbo came into boost and the screamer opened he grabbed just about every handle in the car. :crazylaugh:
Most of the time I was playing in Map 1 (15 Psi) which is still scary. Good for ~450 Whp, with the mix that was in, and loads of fun.
The car is going back to FR&R to get the fitment of the bumper sorted, we only just got it on and had to remove the black plastic grills. Leon will trim it a bit to make sure everything goes back. The new MAP sensor will hopefully also go in this week to allow us to boost beyond 20Psi :grin:
Also a friend gave me an used set of semi's that are going on, they still have a bit of life in them and hopefully they can plant the rear a bit better.
I decided not to run the car a the fanatics dyno day yesterday. We are still not 100% happy with all the tuning. Soon though...
Rowen@CleanCarTechnologies said:
Logs are looking very good, I will post a few when we start fine tuning the higher boost maps.
salmaandhooma1
New member
Wow! Crazy power
Johnny135i
///Member
Thanks for the update!
I'm watching this thread with great interest as this is also where I'm heading.just with a Pure turbo:rollsmile:
Good luck bud:cartel:
I'm watching this thread with great interest as this is also where I'm heading.just with a Pure turbo:rollsmile:
Good luck bud:cartel:
Well done on the power!!!
Not to sound like a wet blanket though I would like to point out a few things, most important is if you don't want to play knock knock jokes then stick better fuel in to the car if you going to put a single turbo at 20psi! Secondly whoever suggested that you try map 7 with 23psi on a standard tmap needs to be spanked! The stock tmap range ends at 21psi and targeting that boost beyond that will end up in the dme running "blind"...
All the best with the final details and tuning of the build!
Not to sound like a wet blanket though I would like to point out a few things, most important is if you don't want to play knock knock jokes then stick better fuel in to the car if you going to put a single turbo at 20psi! Secondly whoever suggested that you try map 7 with 23psi on a standard tmap needs to be spanked! The stock tmap range ends at 21psi and targeting that boost beyond that will end up in the dme running "blind"...
All the best with the final details and tuning of the build!
KrS24
///Member
Here is the rule of thumb with this ST build map selection. (Assuming 1 x 10ghp nozzle)
Map 1 (15) can be used on pump 95 : +400whp
Map 2 95 plus >40% Meth : 500whp
Map 5 95, >=60% Meth and >20% Eth, a can of NF wont hurt either : +-570whp ( need a stronger HPFP to push higher numbers)
Map 7 95, >=60% Meth and >=50% Eth plus a can of NF ultra to boot. : this should be good for 600whp
Map 8 (25 psi). 95, >=60% Meth (dual nozzle setup req. min 2 x 7GHP) >=50% Eth, a lot of NF. ( you could just run 104 Ron with Meth) : I have seen a few guys hitting anywhere from 620 to +700whp
This is what I have learnt with over 70 dyno runs on the kit. (Map 1, 2 & 5)
I agree with Kish. It's not worth running higher target maps with lower octane mixes. With the single turbo setup using avg ign to determine knock isn't easy. The single turbos are mapped to a lower timing advance and are prone to false knock. So the difference between a knocking single turbo and a non knocking one is not easy to see using avg ign. That is why there is no auto tuning map yet.
I conclusion, if you wanna run this kit on your car to it full potential invest in the right fuel. Well that's until we get the port injection running. Then we will be running straight e95.
Map 1 (15) can be used on pump 95 : +400whp
Map 2 95 plus >40% Meth : 500whp
Map 5 95, >=60% Meth and >20% Eth, a can of NF wont hurt either : +-570whp ( need a stronger HPFP to push higher numbers)
Map 7 95, >=60% Meth and >=50% Eth plus a can of NF ultra to boot. : this should be good for 600whp
Map 8 (25 psi). 95, >=60% Meth (dual nozzle setup req. min 2 x 7GHP) >=50% Eth, a lot of NF. ( you could just run 104 Ron with Meth) : I have seen a few guys hitting anywhere from 620 to +700whp
This is what I have learnt with over 70 dyno runs on the kit. (Map 1, 2 & 5)
I agree with Kish. It's not worth running higher target maps with lower octane mixes. With the single turbo setup using avg ign to determine knock isn't easy. The single turbos are mapped to a lower timing advance and are prone to false knock. So the difference between a knocking single turbo and a non knocking one is not easy to see using avg ign. That is why there is no auto tuning map yet.
I conclusion, if you wanna run this kit on your car to it full potential invest in the right fuel. Well that's until we get the port injection running. Then we will be running straight e95.
Girevik77
Active member
Thank you for all the positive feedback gentlemen!!
I appreciate your concern bro, we were being foolish. It could have ended badly just to have a quick look see if it would work. It did fail into map 4 as soon as the turbo came into boost, but then again that's all it takes.
As for fuel, I see that I forgot to mention that I had a can of NF in the tank as well, It has been edited. I will add that the concentrations I posted were a bit conservative as well. I calculated for a full tank of 95 and it was actually just over 3/4, so mix was a bit stronger. But I agree, it's better to overkill with octane.
KrS24 Thank you bro, as always your help and expertise are appreciated.
Good luck with the build bro!!! You won't regret it.
Will be great to see another 135i get the BT treatment, and DCT your car will be epic. Keep us posted.
Kish2604@TheFanatics said:
I appreciate your concern bro, we were being foolish. It could have ended badly just to have a quick look see if it would work. It did fail into map 4 as soon as the turbo came into boost, but then again that's all it takes.
As for fuel, I see that I forgot to mention that I had a can of NF in the tank as well, It has been edited. I will add that the concentrations I posted were a bit conservative as well. I calculated for a full tank of 95 and it was actually just over 3/4, so mix was a bit stronger. But I agree, it's better to overkill with octane.
KrS24 Thank you bro, as always your help and expertise are appreciated.
Johnny135i said:
Good luck with the build bro!!! You won't regret it.
Will be great to see another 135i get the BT treatment, and DCT your car will be epic. Keep us posted.
Girevik77
Active member
Update:
Just a quick one.New TMAP sensor went in last week, to allow boost above 20 Psi.
With a good mix (50% Eth and NF) and water meth to a tank of 95 we hit 551Whp,711Nm on Friday night :rollsmile: This was done on map 6 (23 Psi), the logs look good and it seems there is room for more. We left things there because by the third pull my clutch started slipping :blueCry: I started this build knowing full well that this component will have to be upgraded, but I was hoping that it would not be so soon.
I will post some logs and dyno graphs as soon as I get the time, I am also in the process of editing a nice little video with the help of a friends go-pro.
The car feels incredibly fast, if I even think of WOT with the semis still cold it spins them up like I'm driving on sheet ice. Boost is limited in 1st and 2nd to control or rather attempt to control wheel spin. In 3rd with the boost hitting full target its like there is another turbo under the bonnet. And all my driving was on Map 5 (20Psi) to ease the strain on the clutch.
Next up is getting everything to fit properly. The bumper modification still needs to happen along with a few other minor issues.
As mentioned above my clutch is on it's way out so I am now looking at replacement options and I am also looking to increase stopping power. The semis I got from my buddy also only have a little bit of life in them so a set of those is on the cards as well.
Just a quick one.New TMAP sensor went in last week, to allow boost above 20 Psi.
With a good mix (50% Eth and NF) and water meth to a tank of 95 we hit 551Whp,711Nm on Friday night :rollsmile: This was done on map 6 (23 Psi), the logs look good and it seems there is room for more. We left things there because by the third pull my clutch started slipping :blueCry: I started this build knowing full well that this component will have to be upgraded, but I was hoping that it would not be so soon.
I will post some logs and dyno graphs as soon as I get the time, I am also in the process of editing a nice little video with the help of a friends go-pro.
The car feels incredibly fast, if I even think of WOT with the semis still cold it spins them up like I'm driving on sheet ice. Boost is limited in 1st and 2nd to control or rather attempt to control wheel spin. In 3rd with the boost hitting full target its like there is another turbo under the bonnet. And all my driving was on Map 5 (20Psi) to ease the strain on the clutch.
Next up is getting everything to fit properly. The bumper modification still needs to happen along with a few other minor issues.
As mentioned above my clutch is on it's way out so I am now looking at replacement options and I am also looking to increase stopping power. The semis I got from my buddy also only have a little bit of life in them so a set of those is on the cards as well.
Girevik77
Active member
Rowen@CleanCarTechnologies said:Nice update and glad you enjoying the build journey.
Let me know what clutch you considering, my SPEC 3 last 6 months
Only 6 months :thumbdo: You must be very unimpressed :skit: What are your max torque figures bro?
To be honest I have no idea as of yet. I was considering a Spec 2+ but if you say the st3 only lasted you 6 months I will skip that idea. Maybe the 3+ or even a twin plate but the twins are ridiculously expensive.
I want that oem feel with a clutch that can handle massive power...
Will keep you informed of any new thoughts or developments, l'd like to hear any ideas or plans you might have as well :rollsmile:
KrS24
///Member
Realistically we need a twin plate clutch. These single plate options are not lasting esp if you want to put the car on the strip or track. I had a nice long chat to the guys at formula friction and they say we are looking at a 4 puk clutch and a single mass flywheel.
Rowen, looks like you are going to need a triple plate clutch bro!
Rowen, looks like you are going to need a triple plate clutch bro!
Girevik77
Active member
Chucky said:Great build, looks super fun and scary at the same time.:coolShake:
am i the only one that does not understand half of the things spoken here...
Knock/ing flase knocking knock knock etc, Spec 2+/Spec 3 Clutch, map 1-7 etc?
Thanks bro!! :ty: It can be scary at times :fencelook: but mostly fun.
Knocking you can google to get a good explanation. In short it's when fuel air mix in the cylinder pre-detonates ie. before the spark plug ignites the mix. And you get incredibly high pressures in your cylinder because of the shock wave. And if that carries on you'll probably send a big end through your block.
Spec is a clutch manufacturer and 2+, 3 and 3+ just refers to some of the options they have. Higher number generally being for higher power and torque applications.
Map 1-7 refers to the JB4 piggback tune maps. It's a piggy back system that allow you to switch between low and high boost maps on the fly. It has loads of other nifty functions, but essentially it is just a fancy boost controller :biglol:
My buddy KrS24 explained the different maps and expectations for each map in this earlier post.
KrS24 said:
I hope this helps, feel free to ask if anything else is unclear and thanks for the interest.
Chucky
Active member
Girevik77 said:Chucky said:Great build, looks super fun and scary at the same time.:coolShake:
am i the only one that does not understand half of the things spoken here...
Knock/ing flase knocking knock knock etc, Spec 2+/Spec 3 Clutch, map 1-7 etc?
Thanks bro!! :ty: It can be scary at times :fencelook: but mostly fun.
Knocking you can google to get a good explanation. In short it's when fuel air mix in the cylinder pre-detonates ie. before the spark plug ignites the mix. And you get incredibly high pressures in your cylinder because of the shock wave. And if that carries on you'll probably send a big end through your block.
Spec is a clutch manufacturer and 2+, 3 and 3+ just refers to some of the options they have. Higher number generally being for higher power and torque applications.
Map 1-7 refers to the JB4 piggback tune maps. It's a piggy back system that allow you to switch between low and high boost maps on the fly. It has loads of other nifty functions, but essentially it is just a fancy boost controller :biglol:
My buddy KrS24 explained the different maps and expectations for each map in this earlier post.
KrS24 said:
I hope this helps, feel free to ask if anything else is unclear and thanks for the interest.
Thanks for the break down it helped me understand :ty:
Girevik77
Active member
Update:
I've been quiet for a while because my car had a bit of an issue. Two weeks ago I started the car after it was standing for about a week and started to notice a funny ticking sound coming from the engine. The ticks frequency increased along with engine RPM. There was no drop in performance or any other adverse effects just this insanely irritating ticking noise.:smashScreen:
I took the car to FR&R and Leon thought it might be a stuck lifter, but recommended that we drop the sump just to make sure it's not a bearing. Leon opened the sump and checked the bearings, at least they are all still in very good condition. :rollsmile: I was pleased to say the least. Next up we opened the valve cover to check the lifters. They look good as well. We are both a bit puzzled about where this noise is coming from. Leon got in touch with a BMW guru, and he said what happens sometimes is that the lifters lose pressure when standing for long periods of time. And that because my car was standing for long periods of time during the build it could very well be that. He suggested we change the oil and let her run for a while to see if the noise persists. We will do that this week, he also said he'll stop by to have a listen to the noise. I'm glad it's not a major issue and hoping some fresh oil sorts out the problem.
I'm shopping around for some fresh semi's the bridgestones I have on don't have much left at all.
I want to get the car on the dyno again as well and see if we can break the 600 WHP mark :cartel:
I've been quiet for a while because my car had a bit of an issue. Two weeks ago I started the car after it was standing for about a week and started to notice a funny ticking sound coming from the engine. The ticks frequency increased along with engine RPM. There was no drop in performance or any other adverse effects just this insanely irritating ticking noise.:smashScreen:
I took the car to FR&R and Leon thought it might be a stuck lifter, but recommended that we drop the sump just to make sure it's not a bearing. Leon opened the sump and checked the bearings, at least they are all still in very good condition. :rollsmile: I was pleased to say the least. Next up we opened the valve cover to check the lifters. They look good as well. We are both a bit puzzled about where this noise is coming from. Leon got in touch with a BMW guru, and he said what happens sometimes is that the lifters lose pressure when standing for long periods of time. And that because my car was standing for long periods of time during the build it could very well be that. He suggested we change the oil and let her run for a while to see if the noise persists. We will do that this week, he also said he'll stop by to have a listen to the noise. I'm glad it's not a major issue and hoping some fresh oil sorts out the problem.
I'm shopping around for some fresh semi's the bridgestones I have on don't have much left at all.
I want to get the car on the dyno again as well and see if we can break the 600 WHP mark :cartel:
