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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Crash's Jezebel in for a Rebuild-Rebuilding an e46 S54 UPDATE on page 26
- Thread starter Peter@AEW
- Start date
dvst8 said:
Look, I for one am not saying that he did it intentionally, in terms of wanting the cars to be set with inadequate timing, but what I am saying is that there is a vested interest in terms of SAYING that your tool is correct, when you designed it, even if it is slightly off.
Willy, what sort of proven before and after basis do you have? Do you have before and after dyno runs to prove your claims? Also, I've seen the invoice where it states clearly that Neesh's timing was set to STOCK....
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922-ZN said:
This is very true, but also, if you have no means to do a direct compare, you then believe that your manufacturer has in fact manufactured your tool to the required specification.
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Ashlin
Member
Willy said:
Im assuming you were there during the conversations between Peter and the customers and have solid facts on the advanced timing request. I am sure that advancement was not discussed anywhere in the communication between myself and peter. The car was in for stock settings.
dvst8
///Member
Fuzz said:
Sure, but why make a tool for use when you clearly have no idea on what you doing.
@922 - sure, Tool should have been checked to make sure it works 100%, hopefully Peter uses this to re-asses the use of the tool as its clear its defective. Not 1 but 4 cars seemed to have an issue caused by the tool.
Willy said:
Show us:
1. Your before and after dyno sheets that prove your claims
2. The proof where the guys have asked for timing advance
3. How many cars that have incorrect timing vs the cars with correct timing
Thanks.
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Willy
Member
I am not here to fight merely state a point of view.
You can not show real world condition on a dyno chart.
You guys attacking me is proof of exactly what I meant.
If Peter was at fault he should be given the chance to correct it. He is a good guy and helped many other members on here. I am also sure that if he was at fault it was not intentional. It is very easy to miss tightening a bolt for example.
I will not entertain dyno queens attacking me on a public forum about making power and who said what.
Obviously your minds has been made up.
Go smoke some tires with all your power.
You can not show real world condition on a dyno chart.
You guys attacking me is proof of exactly what I meant.
If Peter was at fault he should be given the chance to correct it. He is a good guy and helped many other members on here. I am also sure that if he was at fault it was not intentional. It is very easy to miss tightening a bolt for example.
I will not entertain dyno queens attacking me on a public forum about making power and who said what.
Obviously your minds has been made up.
Go smoke some tires with all your power.
Fuzz said:
Willy said:
I'm not fighting, I'm just asking for the basis of your claims bro :coolshake:
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Willy
Member
The car was tracked before and after it was with Peter.
If was quicker second time around by almost 2 seconds.
I do not think changing to falken tyres from Bridgestones had everything to do with it.
Car has more throttle response and felt happier to rev. Also runs better against the Carrera S we use as a bench mark.
I do not have dyno charts as that is not important to us.
If was quicker second time around by almost 2 seconds.
I do not think changing to falken tyres from Bridgestones had everything to do with it.
Car has more throttle response and felt happier to rev. Also runs better against the Carrera S we use as a bench mark.
I do not have dyno charts as that is not important to us.
Gents... I've been following this thread almost from the birth of it...
so.. where do i start, now understandably, i can get off on a tangent and blow things skew since my car was one of the mentioned cars in this stack... so..
we need to exercise
Respect: this is what we have to people of experience
Mutual Respect: having the same relation each toward the other
my timeline of issue is along about 3 or 4 days on before and after vanos
i chatted to chris prior to my vanos being done, and it's what this forum moves us forward, that we look at work experience and quality of work, so i took my car in for vanos based on this "quality of work"
during this time i had been speaking to "Alex" ( member who corrected my vanos ) he had mentioned to me that timing is a high requirement on these motors, so alongside he's support, i bought the Vanos Cam Bridge(amongst various other BMW Tools for S54), and still proceeded on good advise to get the vanos done at Axis, so... vanos done and car collected, as with any excitement car felt better, as with an M car, you want to DRIVE it... so you need not look at the bottom end power, which after everything bedded was really bad...
so, the Cam Bridge arrived a month later... with me bickering to Alex, i made him drive my car a few times, and he felt the car lacking at the bottom as well...
long story short, we open the motor, remove vanos, low and behold the timing was out...
rewind a month and few days... when i was scrutinizing the Timing when the car was booked in, but was given every reason that the timing will be spot on... i was curious to see the cam bridge in real life, but was shown a replica, that was me taken aback..
with the Timing redone the car pulled like a boeing, Thank you Alex..
Then i met Chris at one of the Ice Cream Run's... and the above explained itself..
Then i spoke to a few other guys, to hear there opinion, which we all shared a similar issue,
Separate Matter:
with this, i questioned them about Shims, i was given a verbal quote of a couple clicks under 16k to have my car shimmed, being the person i am and not willing to spend money without proper reason, i consulted Alex again, we shimmed my car... and 2 shims where out ... barely... so they are still in there at present ( price of a shim puck from BMW is R30 )
and and and... i don't want to stick the bearings into the conversation...nonetheless...
Back on track:
now, the question is do you go to someone else(out of the blue) or go to the source, keeping in mind you have already made an outlay of a large sum of money...
i did the latter and consulted Alex, because i was previously given an assurance that "all will be spot on"
@ Fordkoppie, just to clear, the Mech in question is the one that built the car in Cape Town, he has relocated to JHB and is working with a BMW Master Tech ( not the Gtech special ), and your CSL will need to get the timing checked as well...
so, we need to keep in mind as well, how much of duration is your camshaft out, and is your car adapting fine or over fueling ? mine was burning rich(above normal ) even so , that if you stood behind the car the fumes where really strong... that subsided quite a bit after my timing was redone
Question? has there been any potential damage?
i can go on to reiterate conversations and phone calls that i got ( colorful )
but..
Chris with the Respect of Yourself and Jezebel, i will not post other items here, you, along with a few of our close from members have helped me quite a bit with various items, if this get's to a name calling session, i will put some gloves on
in the efforts of not derailing, we have to keep in mind and give Mutual Respect to Chris with all this in question, has and still is faithful to the brand despite all of this, ask any of us, what would we do in the same situation, and we would have thrown in a towel at the idea of a rebuild...
we need to exercise caution that we must not be Mortified or Scared into " oh if you don't do this or that, that's it! " but learn from experience that there are certain fundamental items that need to be looked at to ensure continual enjoyment of our beloved cars
Spiro
so.. where do i start, now understandably, i can get off on a tangent and blow things skew since my car was one of the mentioned cars in this stack... so..
we need to exercise
Respect: this is what we have to people of experience
Mutual Respect: having the same relation each toward the other
my timeline of issue is along about 3 or 4 days on before and after vanos
i chatted to chris prior to my vanos being done, and it's what this forum moves us forward, that we look at work experience and quality of work, so i took my car in for vanos based on this "quality of work"
during this time i had been speaking to "Alex" ( member who corrected my vanos ) he had mentioned to me that timing is a high requirement on these motors, so alongside he's support, i bought the Vanos Cam Bridge(amongst various other BMW Tools for S54), and still proceeded on good advise to get the vanos done at Axis, so... vanos done and car collected, as with any excitement car felt better, as with an M car, you want to DRIVE it... so you need not look at the bottom end power, which after everything bedded was really bad...
so, the Cam Bridge arrived a month later... with me bickering to Alex, i made him drive my car a few times, and he felt the car lacking at the bottom as well...
long story short, we open the motor, remove vanos, low and behold the timing was out...
rewind a month and few days... when i was scrutinizing the Timing when the car was booked in, but was given every reason that the timing will be spot on... i was curious to see the cam bridge in real life, but was shown a replica, that was me taken aback..
with the Timing redone the car pulled like a boeing, Thank you Alex..
Then i met Chris at one of the Ice Cream Run's... and the above explained itself..
Then i spoke to a few other guys, to hear there opinion, which we all shared a similar issue,
Separate Matter:
with this, i questioned them about Shims, i was given a verbal quote of a couple clicks under 16k to have my car shimmed, being the person i am and not willing to spend money without proper reason, i consulted Alex again, we shimmed my car... and 2 shims where out ... barely... so they are still in there at present ( price of a shim puck from BMW is R30 )
and and and... i don't want to stick the bearings into the conversation...nonetheless...
Back on track:
now, the question is do you go to someone else(out of the blue) or go to the source, keeping in mind you have already made an outlay of a large sum of money...
i did the latter and consulted Alex, because i was previously given an assurance that "all will be spot on"
@ Fordkoppie, just to clear, the Mech in question is the one that built the car in Cape Town, he has relocated to JHB and is working with a BMW Master Tech ( not the Gtech special ), and your CSL will need to get the timing checked as well...
so, we need to keep in mind as well, how much of duration is your camshaft out, and is your car adapting fine or over fueling ? mine was burning rich(above normal ) even so , that if you stood behind the car the fumes where really strong... that subsided quite a bit after my timing was redone
Question? has there been any potential damage?
i can go on to reiterate conversations and phone calls that i got ( colorful )
but..
Chris with the Respect of Yourself and Jezebel, i will not post other items here, you, along with a few of our close from members have helped me quite a bit with various items, if this get's to a name calling session, i will put some gloves on
in the efforts of not derailing, we have to keep in mind and give Mutual Respect to Chris with all this in question, has and still is faithful to the brand despite all of this, ask any of us, what would we do in the same situation, and we would have thrown in a towel at the idea of a rebuild...
we need to exercise caution that we must not be Mortified or Scared into " oh if you don't do this or that, that's it! " but learn from experience that there are certain fundamental items that need to be looked at to ensure continual enjoyment of our beloved cars
Spiro
Willy
Member
I was not there no.
He worked on your car, he made an error or your car didn't like the change, did you go back to him and give him a chance to correct it?
:smashScreen:
Again, I did not come here to be attacked. I didn't name names and don't say anybody is wrong or right.
If only all car people stand together and not try stab the next guy in the back for every word he says.
He worked on your car, he made an error or your car didn't like the change, did you go back to him and give him a chance to correct it?
:smashScreen:
Again, I did not come here to be attacked. I didn't name names and don't say anybody is wrong or right.
If only all car people stand together and not try stab the next guy in the back for every word he says.
Ashlin said:
ChefDJ
///Member
If you guys want to have dyno and power wars, please start a new thread. Further, why are we pointing fingers at Fordkoppie/Peter/Tom/Dick/Harry for whatever reason, trying to call them out or what? This is between Chris and Axis.
Let them speak for themselves. Of course, support and words of encouragement are always welcome. You're not helping by saying "this guy made a kak tool so it's his fault."
I'll reiterate that this thread need not get out of hand, because if it does it will be locked and lost over time. Such a useful, knowledge-filled thread to be wasted...? I think neither Chris nor Axis wants that. Please show respect.
Let them speak for themselves. Of course, support and words of encouragement are always welcome. You're not helping by saying "this guy made a kak tool so it's his fault."
I'll reiterate that this thread need not get out of hand, because if it does it will be locked and lost over time. Such a useful, knowledge-filled thread to be wasted...? I think neither Chris nor Axis wants that. Please show respect.
Kimeran
///Member
I remember Neesh telling us his car was going in for the vanos.
We expected the car to come out like an absolute monster, but instead it went backwards.
Only afterwards, did we find out all the issues.
I urged him to take it to the forum and inform everyone. Shortly after, the same thing happens to Ashlin.
The guys didn't want to start a war (gotta respect that), and I figured it was ok since Peter offered to sort out customer's cars free of charge when he found out the tool wasn't correct.
Then I find out he was just being a good businessman, and still didn't believe his tool wasn't accurate :thumbdo:
We expected the car to come out like an absolute monster, but instead it went backwards.
Only afterwards, did we find out all the issues.
I urged him to take it to the forum and inform everyone. Shortly after, the same thing happens to Ashlin.
The guys didn't want to start a war (gotta respect that), and I figured it was ok since Peter offered to sort out customer's cars free of charge when he found out the tool wasn't correct.
Then I find out he was just being a good businessman, and still didn't believe his tool wasn't accurate :thumbdo:
dvst8
///Member
ChefDJ@TheFanatics said:
But he did, he made a kak tool that cannot set the timing right. Seems to be the source and common problem.
No one is pointing any fingers, just stating the obvious from evidence thus far.
So maybe its best we wait for Crash to post once the investigation is complete then.
Fordkoppie
///Member
It would be interesting to see how many degrees people reported their cams to be out.
Due to a very vague technically written document, the tool was manufactured with the data we had on hand and with what was seen on the cars that were opened without previous work and set as the factory would have.
The fact is that the tool was made to get the CSL back on the road. There were NO BMW tools available anywhere in SA at that stage. Nothing could be borrowed, and there was no contact to supply one from the agents. So the tool was made from as much technical data humanly attainable at that stage
Now, 2 years later, after a few OEM tools popped up I know exactly how little the manufactured tool is out, but I hold firm that the small alteration in timing worked in favor of the CSL because it did perform better than before. The reference made to 4pipeR's car was simply to illustrate that the csl was healthy afterwards if it could match with the benchmark which is not so stock, hence the "stock" in inverted commas previously posted. That test was also conducted before the LSB car had Vanos work.
Anyone in the know, will also confirm that a CSL does not do so well up here at altitude, and its not uncommon for them to sometimes fare badly against normal M3s.
I am not a TLGP freak which should be rather obvious by my lack of posts to the ones who frequent that section
Getting back to Crash's car, my speculation would be that the loss of compression on the 2 cylinders could almost certainly be the result of the overheating.
Due to a very vague technically written document, the tool was manufactured with the data we had on hand and with what was seen on the cars that were opened without previous work and set as the factory would have.
The fact is that the tool was made to get the CSL back on the road. There were NO BMW tools available anywhere in SA at that stage. Nothing could be borrowed, and there was no contact to supply one from the agents. So the tool was made from as much technical data humanly attainable at that stage
Now, 2 years later, after a few OEM tools popped up I know exactly how little the manufactured tool is out, but I hold firm that the small alteration in timing worked in favor of the CSL because it did perform better than before. The reference made to 4pipeR's car was simply to illustrate that the csl was healthy afterwards if it could match with the benchmark which is not so stock, hence the "stock" in inverted commas previously posted. That test was also conducted before the LSB car had Vanos work.
Anyone in the know, will also confirm that a CSL does not do so well up here at altitude, and its not uncommon for them to sometimes fare badly against normal M3s.
I am not a TLGP freak which should be rather obvious by my lack of posts to the ones who frequent that section
Getting back to Crash's car, my speculation would be that the loss of compression on the 2 cylinders could almost certainly be the result of the overheating.
Does the CSL run the same cams as a normal M3?
If so then I can understand it being used for the other M3's.
If not then I am not sure why it was used.
Ive seen a few Cam Alignment tools ons sale overseas for around R1 200.00, and even some local at R5 000.00.
Please correct me if I have missed anything or dont understand it correctly.
If so then I can understand it being used for the other M3's.
If not then I am not sure why it was used.
Ive seen a few Cam Alignment tools ons sale overseas for around R1 200.00, and even some local at R5 000.00.
Please correct me if I have missed anything or dont understand it correctly.
And the omission of the chain tensioner?
