-
Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
S
scunick
Guest
Seether said:
Point taken. Fact is that I have nothing to hide from BMW (SA). I have always been totally upfront about my cars. I sincerely hope that BMW (SA) do have someone looking at this thread. Maybe they will finally understand the Damage that idiots like Johannes do to their business an reputation.
Cheers
Nick
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-26.035367,27.995645
I cannot believe the indecency of BMW SA's reply..."approved tyres" for a wheel alignmenr check or inspection? What the hell does this have to do with your original request...damn
Unbelievable...:nonono: and totally shocking sitting in their ivory towers behaving like Stalin. All dicators will eventually fall.
Unbelievable...:nonono: and totally shocking sitting in their ivory towers behaving like Stalin. All dicators will eventually fall.
Mamba
Member
Man, if you want any help from me please ask and I will help where I can, please mention my name to them as well as somebody who will never accept their bad service. I can forward all my correspondance with mr Johannes as well...
I also asked for ALL fault code print outs during motorplan and was told it does not get stored...;(
...
I also asked for ALL fault code print outs during motorplan and was told it does not get stored...;(
...
J
Jakkals_F30
Guest
Which is bullshit as we know, cause why would it have picked up that i had different bulbs for my AE's and the errors when the one led bulb died... and when they said oh we see that you have a flat also...
they seem to love talking crap.
they seem to love talking crap.
S
scunick
Guest
Johannes STRIKES AGAIN!
Good Morning Nicholas
BMW SA requested confirmation of availability of the following dates 14th February or 16th of February. Once we receive confirmation of availability, the place and time could be discussed accordingly.
We suggest that a meeting on these dates (14, 16th February) takes place at any BMW approved dealership, in order inspect and go through the vehicle with the necessary diagnoses machines.
· Refund has been submitted and BMW finance is busy processing this amount, further details will be supplied by BMW Finance. The refund takes approx 16-19 days to be allocated.
· I cannot assist you will a breakdown of the settlement, this you would have to get from your finance house. The refund details will be supplied by BMW Finance.
· We have received verbal confirmation of the wheel alignment not being done, due to and related to non approved tyres, please refer to attached document page 4 “point 3†on the jobcard, where the workshop commented on this and indicated this. The job card which we refer to here was signed, on your behalf by the person sent to collect the vehicle we presume, as it was “PPâ€.
· Please once again refer to attached job cards,
· Diagnostics reports are internal documents, and have copy rights on. Dealerships are able to show you them on request, further more the other job cards are available and therefore attached.
We trust the above information is what you have requested, please kindly confirm which of the following 2 dates 14 February or 16 February you will be available.
Kind Regards
BMW (South Africa) (Pty) Ltd
Mr Johannes Conradie
Specialist : Customer Services
Dept Code: Dept Code ZA-VA-1-3
P.O Box 2955, Pretoria 0001
Phone: 0800 600 555
Fax: 0865574416
mailto: [email protected]
Url: http://www.bmw.co.za/
-----------------------------------------------------
Registration number 1960/000196/07
This e-mail and its contents are subject to the BMW (South Africa)(Pty) Ltd
Email Legal notice and information available at
http://www.bmw.co.za/legal/directorsnotice.asp
Directors: F-P Arndt*(Chairman), B Donauer* (Managing), U-B Sanne*(Finance & Human Resources),
J Ginglseder*(Technical & Logistics), Dr JP Fegbeutel*(Legal Services),
W Luhabe(Non-Executive), MS Phalatse(Non-Executive)
*(German)
-----------------------------------------------------
And my reply
Johannes,
The only possible explanation for your responses below is that you have a very shaky grasp of the english language. I further note that you habitually remove the Service Manager from SMG Cape Town whenever you decide to propagate patent untruths. Be warned that it is a very complex web you have woven and I will find the thread that brings it crashing down.
I AM NOT AT YOUR BECK AND CALL FOR AN ENTIRE DAY. I, unlike you, have businesses to run and clients that actually require and receive service. Once again:
Meeting date: 14 February 2012
Time: 10:30
Duration: 60 Minutes
Location: SMG Canal Walk
I frankly have little or no care for your internal red tape around the processing of my refund. I once again am forced to remind you of the contents of my pervious mail.. and I quote:
"A working month to approve a refund is so far from acceptable it is ridiculous. YOU DO NOT HAVE PAYMENT TERMS WITH ME IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY I DO NOT HAVE PAYMENT TERMS FROM YOU! Should the roles have been reversed and I had not paid this money on time I would have not been provided cover. Once again the trade terms are consistent. Get this paid immediately."
I further find it completely baseless that you can confirm that the refund has been processed but you cannot define the amount of the refund, the method of calculation and whether any irregular administration fees are attached. This is a blatant attempt to obscure the truth around your questionable business ethics. You are required to be able to provide me with FULL DISCLOSURE of the settlement amount ON CANCELLATION. Not sometime in the future when the sun rotates around the moon and earth has been banished to the outer recesses of the universe!
I note that you have decided to place in writing the assertion that NO WHEEL ALIGNMENT WAS PERFORMED. In light of this interesting perspective I would like to point out to you that I have irrefutable proof that this was done. Assuming I am correct, this now raises issues around the specificity of all of your assertions. How can BMW (SA) expect me to deal with your incompetence and have any trust in drivel that has been related in your responses below. If you had bothered to read my correspondence you would have noted that their have multiple attempts to remediate the handling problems. Below is a copy of the alignment report from SMG Cape Town.
I would like to further understand how issues related to parts of the car that are patently not used during a test drive have been tested during a test drive. Examples of these are the navigation systems upgrade. I am under the impression that the systems locks out in-motion instructioning. What this simply proves that you do not have the product knowledge to be dealing with me as a client. I once again re-iterate my request to have you removed from this case and replaced by someone who had a modicum of authority, knowledge and intelligence. You continuously fail to achieve anything but make a mockery of "customer service".
The information contained on diagnostic reports is not copyrighted. A copyright is commonly defined as follows:
"Copyright is a legal concept, enacted by most governments, giving the creator of an original work exclusive rights to it, usually for a limited time. Generally, it is "the right to copy", but also gives the copyright holder the right to be credited for the work, to determine who may adapt the work to other forms, who may perform the work, who may financially benefit from it, and other, related rights. It is an intellectual property form (like the patent, the trademark, and the trade secret) applicable to any expressible form of an idea or information that is substantive and discrete..."
The data read by the diagnostics equipment is the property of the owner of the vehicle. As I have pointed out on many occasions that owners is me. The data is mine and you as a SERVICE PROVIDER have my consent to access that data and use that data to effect proper maintenance on the vehicle. I immediately hear you saying that the mechanism by which you obtain that information is proprietary and to this I reply that be that as it may, that mechanism is NOT exclusive. The are a multitude of products ion the market that can read diagnostic codes. This coding is done to an industry standard and is published. Further I am not attempting to derive financial benefit from the provision of these reports. I am merely exercising my right to confirm that work has been done to the correct and appropriate level. Thus, the point of copyright is moot.
Should the dealership wish to make all my diagnostic reports available to scrutiny then I welcome the offer. These documents need to be prepared and delivered to my preferred third party evaluator as a matter of urgency. This however does not abdicate BMW (SA) from the responsibility to maintain my vehicles in accordance with the terms of the Motorplan contract. The fact that BMW (SA) choose to use the dealer network to execute on their responsibilities merely strengthens my position.
"Regards"
Good Morning Nicholas
BMW SA requested confirmation of availability of the following dates 14th February or 16th of February. Once we receive confirmation of availability, the place and time could be discussed accordingly.
We suggest that a meeting on these dates (14, 16th February) takes place at any BMW approved dealership, in order inspect and go through the vehicle with the necessary diagnoses machines.
· Refund has been submitted and BMW finance is busy processing this amount, further details will be supplied by BMW Finance. The refund takes approx 16-19 days to be allocated.
· I cannot assist you will a breakdown of the settlement, this you would have to get from your finance house. The refund details will be supplied by BMW Finance.
· We have received verbal confirmation of the wheel alignment not being done, due to and related to non approved tyres, please refer to attached document page 4 “point 3†on the jobcard, where the workshop commented on this and indicated this. The job card which we refer to here was signed, on your behalf by the person sent to collect the vehicle we presume, as it was “PPâ€.
· Please once again refer to attached job cards,
· Diagnostics reports are internal documents, and have copy rights on. Dealerships are able to show you them on request, further more the other job cards are available and therefore attached.
We trust the above information is what you have requested, please kindly confirm which of the following 2 dates 14 February or 16 February you will be available.
Kind Regards
BMW (South Africa) (Pty) Ltd
Mr Johannes Conradie
Specialist : Customer Services
Dept Code: Dept Code ZA-VA-1-3
P.O Box 2955, Pretoria 0001
Phone: 0800 600 555
Fax: 0865574416
mailto: [email protected]
Url: http://www.bmw.co.za/
-----------------------------------------------------
Registration number 1960/000196/07
This e-mail and its contents are subject to the BMW (South Africa)(Pty) Ltd
Email Legal notice and information available at
http://www.bmw.co.za/legal/directorsnotice.asp
Directors: F-P Arndt*(Chairman), B Donauer* (Managing), U-B Sanne*(Finance & Human Resources),
J Ginglseder*(Technical & Logistics), Dr JP Fegbeutel*(Legal Services),
W Luhabe(Non-Executive), MS Phalatse(Non-Executive)
*(German)
-----------------------------------------------------
And my reply
Johannes,
The only possible explanation for your responses below is that you have a very shaky grasp of the english language. I further note that you habitually remove the Service Manager from SMG Cape Town whenever you decide to propagate patent untruths. Be warned that it is a very complex web you have woven and I will find the thread that brings it crashing down.
I AM NOT AT YOUR BECK AND CALL FOR AN ENTIRE DAY. I, unlike you, have businesses to run and clients that actually require and receive service. Once again:
Meeting date: 14 February 2012
Time: 10:30
Duration: 60 Minutes
Location: SMG Canal Walk
I frankly have little or no care for your internal red tape around the processing of my refund. I once again am forced to remind you of the contents of my pervious mail.. and I quote:
"A working month to approve a refund is so far from acceptable it is ridiculous. YOU DO NOT HAVE PAYMENT TERMS WITH ME IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY I DO NOT HAVE PAYMENT TERMS FROM YOU! Should the roles have been reversed and I had not paid this money on time I would have not been provided cover. Once again the trade terms are consistent. Get this paid immediately."
I further find it completely baseless that you can confirm that the refund has been processed but you cannot define the amount of the refund, the method of calculation and whether any irregular administration fees are attached. This is a blatant attempt to obscure the truth around your questionable business ethics. You are required to be able to provide me with FULL DISCLOSURE of the settlement amount ON CANCELLATION. Not sometime in the future when the sun rotates around the moon and earth has been banished to the outer recesses of the universe!
I note that you have decided to place in writing the assertion that NO WHEEL ALIGNMENT WAS PERFORMED. In light of this interesting perspective I would like to point out to you that I have irrefutable proof that this was done. Assuming I am correct, this now raises issues around the specificity of all of your assertions. How can BMW (SA) expect me to deal with your incompetence and have any trust in drivel that has been related in your responses below. If you had bothered to read my correspondence you would have noted that their have multiple attempts to remediate the handling problems. Below is a copy of the alignment report from SMG Cape Town.
I would like to further understand how issues related to parts of the car that are patently not used during a test drive have been tested during a test drive. Examples of these are the navigation systems upgrade. I am under the impression that the systems locks out in-motion instructioning. What this simply proves that you do not have the product knowledge to be dealing with me as a client. I once again re-iterate my request to have you removed from this case and replaced by someone who had a modicum of authority, knowledge and intelligence. You continuously fail to achieve anything but make a mockery of "customer service".
The information contained on diagnostic reports is not copyrighted. A copyright is commonly defined as follows:
"Copyright is a legal concept, enacted by most governments, giving the creator of an original work exclusive rights to it, usually for a limited time. Generally, it is "the right to copy", but also gives the copyright holder the right to be credited for the work, to determine who may adapt the work to other forms, who may perform the work, who may financially benefit from it, and other, related rights. It is an intellectual property form (like the patent, the trademark, and the trade secret) applicable to any expressible form of an idea or information that is substantive and discrete..."
The data read by the diagnostics equipment is the property of the owner of the vehicle. As I have pointed out on many occasions that owners is me. The data is mine and you as a SERVICE PROVIDER have my consent to access that data and use that data to effect proper maintenance on the vehicle. I immediately hear you saying that the mechanism by which you obtain that information is proprietary and to this I reply that be that as it may, that mechanism is NOT exclusive. The are a multitude of products ion the market that can read diagnostic codes. This coding is done to an industry standard and is published. Further I am not attempting to derive financial benefit from the provision of these reports. I am merely exercising my right to confirm that work has been done to the correct and appropriate level. Thus, the point of copyright is moot.
Should the dealership wish to make all my diagnostic reports available to scrutiny then I welcome the offer. These documents need to be prepared and delivered to my preferred third party evaluator as a matter of urgency. This however does not abdicate BMW (SA) from the responsibility to maintain my vehicles in accordance with the terms of the Motorplan contract. The fact that BMW (SA) choose to use the dealer network to execute on their responsibilities merely strengthens my position.
"Regards"
M
Mike1
Guest
:bravo:
lol reading this really makes my day :rollsmile:
opcorn:opcorn:Nic, I seriously have to go buy more popcorn. :thumbs:
The challenge you have is that you are now dealing with a customer relations "specialist" that has no power of decision making...they are like tele-operators. I dont think they are equiped to deal with complex cutomer related concerns & queries. Ideally, you want to deal with a decision maker within BMW SA. Now the question is; why has this matter not been referred to such a person? I can only summise that they dont deem this matter seriously.
1. The fact that they are "considering" a refund is a positive "step"; albeit a fck slow one at that.
2. Why is he referring you back to the dealership? Surely, BMW SA should deal directly with the dealership and inform them what should be done. Suddenly, a "job card" that was performed on your car is now deemed confidential. Yet, BMW SA was quick to suspend your MP based on a "confidential" jobcard which BMW SA are now not prepared to share with the customer. This is very strange.
3. I did not realise the dealership in question was SMG - Cape Town. The fact that they are referring you (up & down) to BMW SA; is also indicative of their own lack of capacity to deal with BMW SA and your matter. In fact, let me put it bluntly - dealerships are ruled by an iron, autocratic hand by BMW SA. Typical Nazi-ism. Dealerships are poep-scared of losing their previledges; yet they are independent franchises. This makes no sense.
4. This situation reinforces my respect for our independent BMW/Mini dealerships. Why are we not supporting our independant dealers? Having Motor Plan offered by BMW is the latest "status" symbol. Or let me put it more crudely: This is how they put your balls in a grinder when you buy a BMW.
5. But I can tell you this much. The day that CPA gets their false teeth back is the day that car manufacturers will realise they cannot continue with their tyranny; poor service delivery and defected vehicles.
6. Lastly, We are shouting at the wrong person: Johannes is just a customer relations operator who does not make the decisions. He is just forwarding your messages on to the creature in the shadows...it is (that) person that we want to engage with. Someone with balls that can make decisions within BMW SA.
Just some thoughts....for now.
:ty:
Demand to spek to the technical rep for the Western cape, one positive experience I has was when the rep stepped in and gave the stealership what for.
It was regarding an engine noise "only I could hear", nobody at the dealership could hear it till the technical rep listened to my car and asked the Auto Atlantic workshop foreman and mechanic if they were deaf.
Ok this was after we went for a test drive, I kept going till we got to Paarl when magically they could hear the noise that had been there all along after I suggested we keep going to Worcester to let their ears get tuned to the car.
Then they could suddenly hear exactly what I was hearing and described it to me.......
It was regarding an engine noise "only I could hear", nobody at the dealership could hear it till the technical rep listened to my car and asked the Auto Atlantic workshop foreman and mechanic if they were deaf.
Ok this was after we went for a test drive, I kept going till we got to Paarl when magically they could hear the noise that had been there all along after I suggested we keep going to Worcester to let their ears get tuned to the car.
Then they could suddenly hear exactly what I was hearing and described it to me.......
gmmcdonald
Member
WOW!!!
I've been a Beemer man since the get go.... Started out in Zim with an old E12... No Motor Plan and no Dealerships to irritate me :=):
Moved to SA in 2001 and bought from Lynn Schroeder BMW, and had only the very best Service! Service is more about people than product in my opinion. The Dealer Principle/s and the Workshop Manager are the key to this, and in this respect Lynn Schroeder wins hands down.
I have to wonder WHY/HOW did BMW SA get to know about the coilovers? It had to be 'reported' to them by someone at the Dealership? I see some sour grapes here......someone at the Dealership had it in for you I would think.
Give them hell, they deserve it! If you are looking for an awesome experience, take a trip up the coast and get your babies serviced here in the Garden Route, you won't be sorry, that much I can pretty much guarantee!
I've been a Beemer man since the get go.... Started out in Zim with an old E12... No Motor Plan and no Dealerships to irritate me :=):
Moved to SA in 2001 and bought from Lynn Schroeder BMW, and had only the very best Service! Service is more about people than product in my opinion. The Dealer Principle/s and the Workshop Manager are the key to this, and in this respect Lynn Schroeder wins hands down.
I have to wonder WHY/HOW did BMW SA get to know about the coilovers? It had to be 'reported' to them by someone at the Dealership? I see some sour grapes here......someone at the Dealership had it in for you I would think.
Give them hell, they deserve it! If you are looking for an awesome experience, take a trip up the coast and get your babies serviced here in the Garden Route, you won't be sorry, that much I can pretty much guarantee!
@Gmmcdonald: Thats a very nice reply. I must admit i also have not had issues with my dealership at Donford Stellenbosch for many years. I have been a loyal customer since the dealership opened and i made an effort at the time to introduce myself to the dealer principal, manager and staff. You are right, the key is the Principal dealer and the workshop manager. It so happen that at my preferred dealership those two people have always shown a key personal interest in the customer. Customers get regularly invited to events at the dealership; whether it is just to view a new model; but these occasions are used by the principal dealer to get to know the customer.
When i talked about the lack of management capacity at some dealerships earlier in this thread i meant the ability of a dealership to resolve complex technical, mechanical or customer service related matters at a dealership level with the customer. Of course all workshops make mistakes or dont always get things right 100% of the time.
But their substance are shown when they double take and go that extra mile to help the customer.
When i talked about the lack of management capacity at some dealerships earlier in this thread i meant the ability of a dealership to resolve complex technical, mechanical or customer service related matters at a dealership level with the customer. Of course all workshops make mistakes or dont always get things right 100% of the time.
But their substance are shown when they double take and go that extra mile to help the customer.
gmmcdonald
Member
Twinz said:
Agreed! Even with the phenominal service I receive from Lynn Schroeder BMW I have also always had the feeling that BMW SA encourages a "Part Replacement" approach to troubleshooting as opposed to good old fashioned mechanical know-how. Whilst on Motorplan this suited me, but I must be honest I'm not sure I would go along with this thinking now that I have to pay for these parts
Regardless, I still recomend Lynn Schroeder to all and sundry and will continue to use them.
Any Cape Town Guys not happy with your dealerships, come through and try them out.. you WON'T be sorry!
imp:I refer to this in your post:
When I bought my car, BEFORE I even took delivery of it, I had a set of non-bmw aftermarket, well, to put it frankly, KNOCK-OFF mags fitted.
I still drove the car for 4 years under motorplan, and when I complained about balancing and alignment, my car was sent to Hi-Q, and authorization for "out-payment" given.
This was done 4 times in the time I had the car, and NEVER once did bmw or Leo Haese Hatfield worry about the fact that I had aftermarket, non original, non approved tyres, and non original mags fitted, they just did the job!
Seether
New member
I still believe MP should be an optional extra with the price of the car being dropped. I find it nauseating that you can pay for something, and it can be cancelled based on BMW's terms and conditions. Makes no sense and allows BMW to be very cynical.
I also believe that any mods done should only affect the MP in the area the mods were done. Cancellation of the entire MP due to a specific mod should be outlawed!
I was watching RPM last night and they said that their long term test car the Audi S4 had been at Audi for 2 months as they couldnt find the problem with a noise in the front wheel. 2 months???!! The brain drain and lack of training in this country is so evident, and we as consumers are expected to accept it.
These dealerships need to be held responsible for lack of service delivery just as the consumers are held responsible for MP cancellations!
I also believe that any mods done should only affect the MP in the area the mods were done. Cancellation of the entire MP due to a specific mod should be outlawed!
I was watching RPM last night and they said that their long term test car the Audi S4 had been at Audi for 2 months as they couldnt find the problem with a noise in the front wheel. 2 months???!! The brain drain and lack of training in this country is so evident, and we as consumers are expected to accept it.
These dealerships need to be held responsible for lack of service delivery just as the consumers are held responsible for MP cancellations!
I agree with your view. It would be interesting to know what the rand value is of the total purchase price.
If the value is under R100 000 then it makes sense to have it included in the purchase price. A 5 year MP valued for arguments sake under R100,000; is far more valuable. A blown engine could result in some meaty repair work.
There is another issue as well; if the MP does not affect the total value of the purchase price then it is an enormous valuable peace of mind for any owner to have. But i do not personally know the status qou on this.
If the value is under R100 000 then it makes sense to have it included in the purchase price. A 5 year MP valued for arguments sake under R100,000; is far more valuable. A blown engine could result in some meaty repair work.
There is another issue as well; if the MP does not affect the total value of the purchase price then it is an enormous valuable peace of mind for any owner to have. But i do not personally know the status qou on this.
Similar threads
