F21GP said:
WIDEOPN-X3 said:
Ratslaaf said:
Just playing devils advocate, trying to understand the view from an ANC voters perspective. If your culture has had 100 years of oppressive white rule, would you vote for the 'whites' if your culture was different, even though the current party you are voting for is clearly not capable of ruling the country? Rather the devil you know, don't you think?
Bear in mind, people in middle and upper class generally takes an interest in the direction of the country, which is a ridiculously small percentage of voters. The rest are 'shielded' by the dramatic impact of poor decisions for the immediate future and do not have a big picture understanding of the future effects of such decisions. They carry on like they had most of their lives with very little real impact to them, whichever government is in power, from an economic perspective. Do you guys honestly think that an intellectual debate around the intricacies of the current government is in any way relevant to their opinion of the 'oppressive white rulers' of yesteryear? And before I get accused of calling anyone stupid, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that these economic concerns that we in the minority share is in no real way relevant to the masses.
To criticize people for voting for the ANC is pointless without understanding their perspective.
An interesting point Raatslaf. I suppose there perspective will change when they're starving then?
Oh wait...... referring to my previous posts.....the crime boss has at his disposal an extremely effective marketing team (aka propaganda machine) that is able to convince the starving masses that they are hungry because of the white oppressor of yesteryear despite the fact that the white oppressor of yesteryear hasn't been the oppressor for 23yrs.......
Eish :facepalm:
A propaganda machine!!! Hahahahaha, the media has a complete bias against the ruling party and Government and has been given a clear narrative to the public.
You eat the spew that is fed to you by the media but do not interrogate any of the things given as facts.
You then want to tell us that we support one man, when as a collective we support a organization that had the values of OR Tambo, Mandela and the freedom charter.
I thought I would leave this topic alone but you use phrases as corrupt and loot freely just because that is what you hear.
In terms of corruption indexes we are aligned with European countries and are far from the levels of corruption you are fed. We sit at a range of 50 out of 180 with 1 being the best 180 the worst.
You get so upset about Zuma corruption yet it's difficult for you to pin point so you throw Nkandla and then the rape case etc
I don't want to argue with anyone here but when my education is likened to how I vote etc I take offense. When my integrity is questioned simply by my vote I take exception. I'll be doing my masters next year by the way!!!
No one asks why we get downgraded by S&P long before June and a institution fined billions. Moodys is still holding onto their guns and may most likely downgrade us but to what end and who's interests.
Yes I may not agree with current status quo in the ANC but can facts be interrogated, I am a person just like all of you and now have to feel ashamed here due to my political views, how can that be!!!
I support the organization that fought and liberated us, I believe in its freedom charter it's former leaders who were great and idolized men.
For those that know me, I hope we can still be friends
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Since you appear to have singled out my comments let me answer you directly.
I did not "spew back" anything that I had heard in the media... I QUOTED statements made by ANC leaders which in MY OPINION reflect a lack of moral compass. Some of the statements made yesterday are diametrically opposed to the stance taken last week. So I was left with the notion that the moral fibre in those people is questionable.
Then, others have quoted news statements and there are photographs PROVING that intimidation is already taking place against those with an opinion opposite to the ANC. Was that photoshopped by the fake media??
In addition, I quoted Gwede Mantashe saying there is no way ANC MP's will vote for what the KNOW is right. How can that be misunderstood? More fake media??
You say you are doing your Masters. Congratulations and good luck. It is never easy studying and working and I admire anyone who succeeds in achieving that. May I ask what you are doing a Masters in? I would think its probably not economics. If it were, I would think that it would be clear to you that South Africa doesn't exist in a bubble. We are part of the world economy and as a junior player, we will always be led rather than lead.
The relevance of that comment is that whether we like it or not, we will be dictated to by the larger economies (yes the West). That is as certain as the rising and setting of the sun. So, what does the smart president do? The president who seeks prosperity for all in the country that he was ASKED to LEAD (side bar, I deliberately don't use the word "rule" because that implies I want to be ruled rather than led by someone inspirational)? What does that man do?
He plays diplomatic chess in the interests of the PEOPLE he SERVES. He ensures that while the West wants to dictate, within reason he goes along with it to ensure that the deals that are made are serving ALL his citizens.
What does the current president do? Serves narrow self interests. Ensure prosperity beyond comprehension for the elite "chosen ones". And to heck with the rest.
In terms of your Masters, if it were economics, I would suspect that you would accept the premise that wealth is not created by dividing it. Its a short term placebo but very quickly that party ends. So the notion of "taking control of the economy" (side bar - which is erroneously still "believed" to be in white hands) without a future vision and a clear path is suicide.
Allow me to explain. The success of IRP, the National Development Plan, and all the other wonderful "plans" that are put out there by the ANC are dependent on INVESTMENT. We are already borrowing 50% + of our GDP to simply sustain our hand out society. With this downgrading to sub investment status, aside from the obvious damage in terms of cost of borrowings rising, the inflow of external investment slows to a trickle or dries up altogether.
No problem says the ANC, we will fund it ourselves.....yeah right. How? By printing more money probably hey? Cos that will fix the problem ne?
A kindergarten kid can figure out that you can't take out more than you put in because if outflow exceeds inflow the flow stops... But then again, we have ministers in parliament who blame water shortages on the previous regime having built the dams to big because you know if the dams were smaller they would all be full. Oh wait, yes more fake news no doubt. Mokanyane was misquoted / misunderstood / or the reporter was mischievous I suppose....
I don't question your loyalty to an organisation that liberated you (and your parents) from the system designed to ensure that you didn't succeed. I do however question BLIND loyalty based on what you have openly stated is an idolizing of men that fought for those freedoms but are now gone.
Quote:
I support the organization that fought and liberated us, I believe in its freedom charter it's
former leaders who were great and idolized men.
End quote
The bold underlined (my emphasis) part is what I find strange. You confirm that it is the former leaders who were great and therefore by inference the current leaders not so much.
That is what 70% of South Africans polled on social media platforms are saying (more fake news??). Get rid of the LEADER not the party. The values for which the ANC stands are not the issue. Its the recklessness and disregard for consequences of actions displayed by the CURRENT LEADERS that has many people upset.
Of course all the above is simply my opinion and like a rusty sheriffs badge we all have our on opinions....
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