-
Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Who actually buys these High Mile E92 M3's
- Thread starter iyerm2
- Start date
pimpassdaddy
Well-known member
Philip Foglar said:
You aren't comparing apples with apples here. The discussion is about information assymetry with regards to condition. The example about your wifes car is incorporating patent defects. That point doesnt strengthen your arguement. What you did was logical by and large.
My point was about 2 cars that look exactly the same to the naked eye. One has far higher mileage and younger, the other has lower mileage a year or 2 older. In all probabilty, a higher mileage vehicle will have a higher propensity to give trouble than a lower mileage one. Whether you choose to observe or apply a science, that will forever remain a fact.
Even if a vehicle has been driven 400km without stopping, that's of little consequence. The engine isnt the only component that keeps a vehicle going. So either way, higher mileage will remain the more risky of the two, as it's operating time is higher. That's why Motorplans are structured the way they are, and that is why buying time is FAR FAR FAR cheaper than buying mileage.
Thats why fleet managers pay more attention to mileage than year in vehicle disposal. Its all about predicable maintenance which is easier to budget for.
pimpassdaddy
Well-known member
saturnz said:
Very true. But we're talking about a vehicle with a history, that still has a motorplan etc...
There's little to worry about with regards to manipulated mileage as the vehicle has a documented history.
v1p3r
Well-known member
Another way of looking at it, and this is not directed at pimpassdaddy or ASH M, but low mileage "garage queen" cars, as they are sometimes called...
The car has low mileage, because it is driven as a "Sunday car", so, driven less frequently, but HOW is it driven when it is taken out? In many cases I'd think driven hard, very hard, and to extract the most possible enjoyment out of it when it is eventually taken out?
Point is, you might get someone who festidiously maintains a car, drives it mildly while fluids are heating up etc, and opens it up more than now and then (hey it's an ///M, it's made to be enjoyed at full chat) and keeps it detailed and covered...and, you get the type that just flogs it, at any temp or mileage.
There's no way of knowing what you buy 2nd hand, unless you personally know the seller and his driving style and fanatacism.
To answer the question, I'd get a car like that, midrange mileage, within plan, extend, keep it for about a year - year and a half, sell it and get a lower mileage car thereafer. If I can afford that kind of car I know what I'm letting myself in for and can afford it, otherwise I'm a dom bastard.
Many good miles to be had for cheap in a car like that.
The car has low mileage, because it is driven as a "Sunday car", so, driven less frequently, but HOW is it driven when it is taken out? In many cases I'd think driven hard, very hard, and to extract the most possible enjoyment out of it when it is eventually taken out?
Point is, you might get someone who festidiously maintains a car, drives it mildly while fluids are heating up etc, and opens it up more than now and then (hey it's an ///M, it's made to be enjoyed at full chat) and keeps it detailed and covered...and, you get the type that just flogs it, at any temp or mileage.
There's no way of knowing what you buy 2nd hand, unless you personally know the seller and his driving style and fanatacism.
To answer the question, I'd get a car like that, midrange mileage, within plan, extend, keep it for about a year - year and a half, sell it and get a lower mileage car thereafer. If I can afford that kind of car I know what I'm letting myself in for and can afford it, otherwise I'm a dom bastard.
Many good miles to be had for cheap in a car like that.
msm
Well-known member
There's something else to consider as well. Higher mileage cost saving vs depreciation vs maintenance.
Buying an ultra low mileage car means you usually pay above book value and vice versa for a higher mileage car. Hence, you need to work out whether the actual maintenance is going to be greater than the depreciation which would be greater on a car above book value.
Unless the car is real lemon, newer BMW's close to the end of MP usually offer the best value - i.e. you save on price as mileage is seen as high, but generally, if the car is decent, your maintenance costs are going to be less than finding a low mileage model (if that makes sense).
Buying an ultra low mileage car means you usually pay above book value and vice versa for a higher mileage car. Hence, you need to work out whether the actual maintenance is going to be greater than the depreciation which would be greater on a car above book value.
Unless the car is real lemon, newer BMW's close to the end of MP usually offer the best value - i.e. you save on price as mileage is seen as high, but generally, if the car is decent, your maintenance costs are going to be less than finding a low mileage model (if that makes sense).
Philip Foglar
///Member
pimpassdaddy said:
And this is why I replied saying, "No I get what you are saying. But hence my statement "generally"..."
Please explain, not sure if I am understanding you correctly...
The thing is, there are too many variables regardless of whether you are comparing apples with apples. Although the 325i and my Wife's car are technically not the same car in terms of model, I was basing it from the point that they are both E46 petrol engined cars with slightly opposite age and mileage conditions, and the overall condition of the two cars was night and day! So at the end of the day, how important is mileage (and as pointed out, assuming it has not been fiddled with) when the car is in terrible mechanical and physical condition. Sure, not easy to always see - a car can look pristine but in fact have tons of costly repairs hidden and waiting for the next owner. Many years ago I remember a comedy insert showed an advert for a young very low mileage E36 M3 with the picture showing the car parked with do-nut tyre marks all around it.
There are simply too many things that can affect a car's wear and tear over shorter or longer distances. Driving style, road conditions - cannot compare one car to another without these issues. I'll give a silly but valid example - I always push the handbrake button when lift so that the ratchet doesn't experience wear and tear - therefore it will probably last forever and never accidentally slip and release (provided there is no defect of course). But how many people do I see stop the cars and "grrrt" goes the handbrake. At a robot I take my foot off the clutch and leave the gear in neutral - the next guy might rather sit and ride the clutch while sitting at the lights. Come to a stop from speed or from a hill and then sit on your brakes, or use the handbrake if the road is not level enough to prevent the car from rolling. Otherwise warped disks are easily achieved from heat-soak.
So in that case this also speaks to the level of enthusiasm - someone that is mechanically minded and careful versus some who isn't.
My initial statement, which I stand by, was simply to give an option based on cars in general. Can't always judge a book by it's cover, and assuming that low mileage means all is good is not always true.
Karthik
New member
OMG the drama , where's that popcorn smiley
But I must say it is built into some of our heads that lower mileage is better , they are concerns such as Sunday car driven hard and only hard , which makes sense . But with our family , If I should find a car with more than 80 000km on the clock . My dad will never buy it for me , because he's had numerous BMW's and has had problems with each car he had that had more than 130 000km on the clock and now as soon as the car's nearing the end of motorplan its sold . Its all in our mentality , and no matter what whome says its ones way of seeing it , and everyone sees it differently , each to their own . :rollsmile:
But I must say it is built into some of our heads that lower mileage is better , they are concerns such as Sunday car driven hard and only hard , which makes sense . But with our family , If I should find a car with more than 80 000km on the clock . My dad will never buy it for me , because he's had numerous BMW's and has had problems with each car he had that had more than 130 000km on the clock and now as soon as the car's nearing the end of motorplan its sold . Its all in our mentality , and no matter what whome says its ones way of seeing it , and everyone sees it differently , each to their own . :rollsmile:
zaleonardz
Well-known member
All I am going to say is this....
Buy your low milege vehicles, so that "oh my word, what if the gearbox goes, and it costs me 25k", weight that up against the depreciation that you are loosing over a year, and it far outweigh the costs....
I have all my life driven low miledge vehicles still in plan, and EVERY single time I try to sell them, I get shafted with about 50 to 100k.....
No more, I point blank refuse, my E60 has 217k on the clock, and you must experiance that thing......
I could not go out and buy a Toyota Yaris with 40k on the clock for what I paid for that car...
The phycological barrier that people have with 100kms is pure bullshit, and as said, i believe it is the manufacturers that place it there...
a car, specially a big V8 is good for 400, 500, if properly looked after, regular maintance, bla bla bla...
Buy your low milege vehicles, so that "oh my word, what if the gearbox goes, and it costs me 25k", weight that up against the depreciation that you are loosing over a year, and it far outweigh the costs....
I have all my life driven low miledge vehicles still in plan, and EVERY single time I try to sell them, I get shafted with about 50 to 100k.....
No more, I point blank refuse, my E60 has 217k on the clock, and you must experiance that thing......
I could not go out and buy a Toyota Yaris with 40k on the clock for what I paid for that car...
The phycological barrier that people have with 100kms is pure bullshit, and as said, i believe it is the manufacturers that place it there...
a car, specially a big V8 is good for 400, 500, if properly looked after, regular maintance, bla bla bla...
TOOFAST MP
New member
I have had two bmw's with over 160km on them and never had a days problem that was not normal wear and tear I would rather judge a car on its overall condition and service history ,if its been loved by the previous owner its as good or better than getting one with a dodgey history or in bad condition with lower km
My X3 ///M I got last month has 101,000KM full history and its super clean ,still like new and I don't think it will explode any time soon runs like clockwork
My X3 ///M I got last month has 101,000KM full history and its super clean ,still like new and I don't think it will explode any time soon runs like clockwork
Philip Foglar
///Member
The thing is, I fell for this trap with my car - paid a lot for it because of the low mileage and still having motorplan. But two years later and motorplan is about done, so that "extra" value is gone with the depreciation and then of course it's a pre-facelift and now the new 3 Series is about to be launched. Then look at my Wife's car, paid a lot less for it and although it has required a fair amount of repairs, in all it is still less than half of my car's purchase price when I got it. And chances are it hasn't dropped in value that much since I bought her car compared to mine.
I think we are going to need more popcorn for this thread... :rollsmile:
I think we are going to need more popcorn for this thread... :rollsmile:
ASH M
Active member
pimpassdaddy said:
Ya, you along with some other lucky bastards that will want to buy my car :roflol:
Unfortunately my car doesn't get driven as much as i would like it to be. It's always sitting in the garage and most of the time the battery runs flat. It usually comes out on the weekend and that to, is only for a wash and polish in the driveway and the back to its sleeping spot again.
But be warned, although i hardly drive it. Every time i do drive it, it gets driven to its maximum potential (what an M3 was made for /how a M3 should be driven), the main cause of this is the lack of driving it. I'm like a kid in a candy store when i get into the drivers seat after 2 weeks of not driving it. Brings that evil grin on my face, like its the first time i'm going to drive this car.:joy:
pimpassdaddy
Well-known member
Well, each to their own... I really dont value a car that has been driven plenty, with the steering wheels leather even losing it's rough texture. A vehicles salad days are far more memorable to me than a "middle aged" one.
I've owned a vehicle that was well past the 100 000km mark, closer to 200 000km and stupid things would start. If it's not a seal, it's a vbearing. If not that bushes, then the clutch, then this and that... I swore to myself never again. As much as I'll never buy a car brand new, but I'll always go for a well specced demo with gloriously low mileage. I've never had a problem. I havent even replaced a clutch ever since that old car I owned in the nineties.
Same thing with my company trucks. The most one has is 130 000kms. All the years I've had it have been peaceful.
Too me piece of mind is far more important, than worrying about depreciation.
I've owned a vehicle that was well past the 100 000km mark, closer to 200 000km and stupid things would start. If it's not a seal, it's a vbearing. If not that bushes, then the clutch, then this and that... I swore to myself never again. As much as I'll never buy a car brand new, but I'll always go for a well specced demo with gloriously low mileage. I've never had a problem. I havent even replaced a clutch ever since that old car I owned in the nineties.
Same thing with my company trucks. The most one has is 130 000kms. All the years I've had it have been peaceful.
Too me piece of mind is far more important, than worrying about depreciation.
Philip Foglar
///Member
pimpassdaddy said:
I hear you! That's where this grey area is. It's really a case of, if you can afford a new car and are willing to accept the depreciation, then you simply cannot go wrong. But for most, looking at used cars it's a case of trying to weigh ones options best and sometimes the higher mileage cars end up being the safer options. For instance, I'd much rather have a car with a slightly worn leather steering wheel that is reliable than one with a shiny hardly used steering wheel but be stuck on the side of the road knowing that I am in for an expensive repair.
Of course being in the commercial truck industry I can imagine the mindset would be different and it's a case of vehicles driven hard since they are work horses essentially. My Wife's uncle has a large courier company in the Western Cape, so we know all about what he goes through etc.
And ultimately, nothing beats thoroughly checking out the car, whatever the age or mileage, and using your head rather than heart when making the decision to buy. :thumbs:
