the last of the true M cars

[Bugger]

Just look at what the other similar brands are doing. Audi has their "S" and "RS" lines.

Merc had their AMG, which they diluted. Then they came out with the hardcore Black Series.

BMW's marketing department is caught between a rock and a hard place. They should have kept the M badge for what it was intended and created a new sub-brand one below it for cars like the M135i, M550d, etc. IMO calling it ///M performance, along with ///M was the mistake they made here.

Back in the day these were designated as Sportspack or Individual or whatever. You're right, BMW are caught between a rock and a hard place because a "cheap", and I use the term very loosely, version of an M car is still better than a "stock" BMW. What this ultimately does is kill the resale value of an M car because you can find something that is almost 90% an M car for a lot less than what an M costs. Look at the price difference between a 2007 E92 M3 and a 2007 E92 335i. You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension. And therein lies the problem.
As an example:

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...alberton-fpa-8a60efbf3d5d7fe3013da0210e103184

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...d0137cb64dd8f406f/makemodel/make/bmw/model/m3

In the case of this particular M3, it has been on Autotrader for about 9 months now.

Honestly though, I would rather walk than drive anything but a BMW,learnt by driving an Audinary......

 

[ASH]

You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension.

Only difference is engine and suspension on the E9x M3?

What about the:-

Flared body work
Wider track
Different bumpers, fenders, side skirts, bonnet, CF roof
Gearbox
Braking system
M-Differential
Different sized wheels and high performance tyres
Lightweight alloy rims
Side mirrors

There are alot more, this is what immediately comes to mind.
There more reasons why it costs more, than just engine and suspension.

People underplay the E9x M3 V8, as the 335i is so good as a fast car, but fact is, a 335i will never be a M3 in terms of outright handling and on track ability, & sheer on road presence. Everytime I see one, it turns my head, because everything about it is so different to my E92 325i .............raise:

Just look at what the other similar brands are doing. Audi has their "S" and "RS" lines.

Merc had their AMG, which they diluted. Then they came out with the hardcore Black Series.

BMW's marketing department is caught between a rock and a hard place. They should have kept the M badge for what it was intended and created a new sub-brand one below it for cars like the M135i, M550d, etc. IMO calling it ///M performance, along with ///M was the mistake they made here.

Back in the day these were designated as Sportspack or Individual or whatever. You're right, BMW are caught between a rock and a hard place because a "cheap", and I use the term very loosely, version of an M car is still better than a "stock" BMW. What this ultimately does is kill the resale value of an M car because you can find something that is almost 90% an M car for a lot less than what an M costs. Look at the price difference between a 2007 E92 M3 and a 2007 E92 335i. You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension. And therein lies the problem.
As an example:

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...alberton-fpa-8a60efbf3d5d7fe3013da0210e103184

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...d0137cb64dd8f406f/makemodel/make/bmw/model/m3

In the case of this particular M3, it has been on Autotrader for about 9 months now.

Honestly though, I would rather walk than drive anything but a BMW,learnt by driving an Audinary......

 

[SP33DYV]

opcorn:

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

---

opcorn:

I think it's healthy debate. Wouldn't mind the opinion of a Hiace driver with an ///M badge on it.....:fencelook:

---

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

---

---

Adding fuel to the fire. :fencelook:

I prefer driving my e46 325i above the 1M. Feels more planted, just lacks the power of the 1M.

 

[Legacy]

opcorn:

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

---

opcorn:

I think it's healthy debate. Wouldn't mind the opinion of a Hiace driver with an ///M badge on it.....:fencelook:

---

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

---

---

Adding fuel to the fire. :fencelook:

I prefer driving my e46 325i above the 1M. Feels more planted, just lacks the power of the 1M.

---

---

I'll trade you my E46 for the 1M then ?? :fencelook: It should feel even better than yours since it has Koni Sport dampers and lightweight BBS wheels.

 

[SP33DYV]

opcorn:

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

---

opcorn:

I think it's healthy debate. Wouldn't mind the opinion of a Hiace driver with an ///M badge on it.....:fencelook:

---

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

---

---

Adding fuel to the fire. :fencelook:

I prefer driving my e46 325i above the 1M. Feels more planted, just lacks the power of the 1M.

---

---

I'll trade you my E46 for the 1M then ?? :fencelook: It should feel even better than yours since it has Koni Sport dampers and lightweight BBS wheels.

---

---

Only if it has the same mileage, an S54 motor and a CSL badge. :rollsmile:

 

[Legacy]

opcorn:

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

opcorn:

I think it's healthy debate. Wouldn't mind the opinion of a Hiace driver with an ///M badge on it.....:fencelook:

---

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

---

Adding fuel to the fire. :fencelook:

I prefer driving my e46 325i above the 1M. Feels more planted, just lacks the power of the 1M.

---

I'll trade you my E46 for the 1M then ?? :fencelook: It should feel even better than yours since it has Koni Sport dampers and lightweight BBS wheels.

---

Only if it has the same mileage, an S54 motor and a CSL badge. :rollsmile:

---

Always a catch with you :biglol:

 

[v1p3r]

But it was not hand built it was a mass produced factory item that had some extras added. As I said th3 E34 was the last Handbuilt M car with personal attention to detail. And as for the desicion to mass produce for commercial reasons I still believe the whole point of an M car is that it is special a limited edition and if you (BMW) chose to mass produce they should have given it a different insignia so as not to deminish the value of what the "M" stands for.

I think ///M cars have enough body, engine and suspension parts that are specific to those models and unavailable on normal series models. I see your point, but don't agree with it completely though.

I think ///M does a hell of a lot of "bespoke" work under the skin of their cars

 

[Dreamer_m6]

I think BMW should do the following:

If they enter a car like they have done with M3's since 1980's and it drives in a touring championship or Le-Mans or like the american GTR cup then it should receive the M badge, this will force BMW to make a M car more M, Less weight, better/stiffer suspension etc..

So a 135 cant be a M because it has no M heritage or its not M-proven.. Something like that..

 

[Bugger]

You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension.

Only difference is engine and suspension on the E9x M3?

What about the:-

Flared body work
Wider track
Different bumpers, fenders, side skirts, bonnet, CF roof
Gearbox
Braking system
M-Differential
Different sized wheels and high performance tyres
Lightweight alloy rims
Side mirrors

There are alot more, this is what immediately comes to mind.
There more reasons why it costs more, than just engine and suspension.

People underplay the E9x M3 V8, as the 335i is so good as a fast car, but fact is, a 335i will never be a M3 in terms of outright handling and on track ability, & sheer on road presence. Everytime I see one, it turns my head, because everything about it is so different to my E92 325i .............raise:

Just look at what the other similar brands are doing. Audi has their "S" and "RS" lines.

Merc had their AMG, which they diluted. Then they came out with the hardcore Black Series.

BMW's marketing department is caught between a rock and a hard place. They should have kept the M badge for what it was intended and created a new sub-brand one below it for cars like the M135i, M550d, etc. IMO calling it ///M performance, along with ///M was the mistake they made here.

Back in the day these were designated as Sportspack or Individual or whatever. You're right, BMW are caught between a rock and a hard place because a "cheap", and I use the term very loosely, version of an M car is still better than a "stock" BMW. What this ultimately does is kill the resale value of an M car because you can find something that is almost 90% an M car for a lot less than what an M costs. Look at the price difference between a 2007 E92 M3 and a 2007 E92 335i. You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension. And therein lies the problem.
As an example:

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...alberton-fpa-8a60efbf3d5d7fe3013da0210e103184

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...d0137cb64dd8f406f/makemodel/make/bmw/model/m3

In the case of this particular M3, it has been on Autotrader for about 9 months now.

Honestly though, I would rather walk than drive anything but a BMW,learnt by driving an Audinary......

Ok, you got me there :rollsmile: The point I was trying to get across more than anything is the cost and availability. Even older M's are costly, which I think is a good thing.Look, don't get me wrong, there is a reason M cars are so desirable, even by today's standards, and the feel of that V8 pulling you down the road (and I can only image the V10 or new V8) is second to none.

The one thing M cars are not is unobvious, with the flared arches and the rims and the power bulges (which my wife hates cos she is 5ft and can't see over it,even with the seat at max height :roflol but there is one thing she loves, and that is the instantaneous power delivery.

And going on what dreamer is saying as well, the whole point of M cars was that they were motor sport derived. Last year's German Touring Car Championship was won by a BMW M3 GTR.

As far as the 1M is concerned, where that car does lay claim nicely to its M badge is the fact that from what I have read and been told, it harks back to the original M3 in its drivability, as in it is a raw car. Does that determine it being an M? Maybe the only reason it can't be considered a "true" M is that its engine is a derivative of a mass produced engine,but that would be nitpicking.

 

[BrandonF1]

I don't agree with it being the last true M car. The E46 M3 has it outclassed in every possible way except maybe rear legroom :biglol:

Subjective matter, but I tend to agree with Legacy.

My personal opinion:
Last true 4 door M was the E39 M5
Last true 2 door M was the E46 M3 CSL

Don't get me wrong. I really, really love the E34 M5, but to me it's not the last true M car.

Also, the E92 V8 also holds a special place in my heart too.

There are no wrong answers here...

Great post:thumbs:

 

[markbsimon]

I think BMW should do the following:

If they enter a car like they have done with M3's since 1980's and it drives in a touring championship or Le-Mans or like the american GTR cup then it should receive the M badge, this will force BMW to make a M car more M, Less weight, better/stiffer suspension etc..

So a 135 cant be a M because it has no M heritage or its not M-proven.. Something like that..

Very good point! let it earn its cred.
beat this for cred


That said and now that I have stirred everyone up so much , I would like to add that bang for buck especially second hand nothing beats the value and overall feeling of driving owning and loving just about any BMW. I am old school that way, I have owned French (Peugeot 409), Brit (MGB), American (AC Cobra & Chev scotsdale) and Japanese (Mazda 323 & RX7) so I have had them all but BMW stands out it is German and it is BMW and I get all greasy just thinking about it.

If money wasn't a part of the equation and I could choose any cars in the world to own these would be my list.


Wait, I already have this one



and a few others like
a 1967 Ferrari 330 GTS (sorry pic wouldn't upload for some reason)
1960 Ferrari 250 GT SWB Berlinetta 'Competizione' (sorry pic wouldn't upload for some reason)

But note I already have my 3.0 CSL, a E34 M5 and a 740i (I just love the look of my 2001 740i which is for sale by the way if you know someone who is interested) so I guess I would need a bigger garage LOL

 

[SP33DYV]

You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension.

Only difference is engine and suspension on the E9x M3?

What about the:-

Flared body work
Wider track
Different bumpers, fenders, side skirts, bonnet, CF roof
Gearbox
Braking system
M-Differential
Different sized wheels and high performance tyres
Lightweight alloy rims
Side mirrors

There are alot more, this is what immediately comes to mind.
There more reasons why it costs more, than just engine and suspension.

People underplay the E9x M3 V8, as the 335i is so good as a fast car, but fact is, a 335i will never be a M3 in terms of outright handling and on track ability, & sheer on road presence. Everytime I see one, it turns my head, because everything about it is so different to my E92 325i .............raise:

Just look at what the other similar brands are doing. Audi has their "S" and "RS" lines.

Merc had their AMG, which they diluted. Then they came out with the hardcore Black Series.

BMW's marketing department is caught between a rock and a hard place. They should have kept the M badge for what it was intended and created a new sub-brand one below it for cars like the M135i, M550d, etc. IMO calling it ///M performance, along with ///M was the mistake they made here.

Back in the day these were designated as Sportspack or Individual or whatever. You're right, BMW are caught between a rock and a hard place because a "cheap", and I use the term very loosely, version of an M car is still better than a "stock" BMW. What this ultimately does is kill the resale value of an M car because you can find something that is almost 90% an M car for a lot less than what an M costs. Look at the price difference between a 2007 E92 M3 and a 2007 E92 335i. You can pick that 335i up for a third of what it cost brand new and practically the only difference is the engine and suspension. And therein lies the problem.
As an example:

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...alberton-fpa-8a60efbf3d5d7fe3013da0210e103184

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-ca...d0137cb64dd8f406f/makemodel/make/bmw/model/m3

In the case of this particular M3, it has been on Autotrader for about 9 months now.

Honestly though, I would rather walk than drive anything but a BMW,learnt by driving an Audinary......

Ok, you got me there :rollsmile: The point I was trying to get across more than anything is the cost and availability. Even older M's are costly, which I think is a good thing.Look, don't get me wrong, there is a reason M cars are so desirable, even by today's standards, and the feel of that V8 pulling you down the road (and I can only image the V10 or new V8) is second to none.

The one thing M cars are not is unobvious, with the flared arches and the rims and the power bulges (which my wife hates cos she is 5ft and can't see over it,even with the seat at max height :roflol but there is one thing she loves, and that is the instantaneous power delivery.

And going on what dreamer is saying as well, the whole point of M cars was that they were motor sport derived. Last year's German Touring Car Championship was won by a BMW M3 GTR.

As far as the 1M is concerned, where that car does lay claim nicely to its M badge is the fact that from what I have read and been told, it harks back to the original M3 in its drivability, as in it is a raw car. Does that determine it being an M? Maybe the only reason it can't be considered a "true" M is that its engine is a derivative of a mass produced engine,but that would be nitpicking.

Exactly, the e30 M3 was in the touring car championship, but the 1M is just riding the wave... :fencelook:
And make no mistake, BMW's marketing division loves that fact. The e30 M3 has the heritage, not the 1M. :nono:

 

[Bugger]

Ok, so then here is a question to the panel, what IS the purest M car ever made? Or is that an ambiguous question?

Morne, I know what you are saying about the heritage, and I do agree with you. Can I ask why you got the 1M and not an M3? Just out of interest?:fencelook:

 

[SP33DYV]

Ok, so then here is a question to the panel, what IS the purest M car ever made? Or is that an ambiguous question?

Morne, I know what you are saying about the heritage, and I do agree with you. Can I ask why you got the 1M and not an M3? Just out of interest?:fencelook:

I was looking for an e90 M3 and just couldn't find one that ticked all the boxes, and they weren't available new anymore and in my search this happened: http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=31964

 

[Bugger]

Holy sheet.

---

Maybe this answers all our questions....

 

[msm]

I was looking for an e90 M3 and just couldn't find one that ticked all the boxes, and they weren't available new anymore and in my search this happened: http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=31964

This is actually what happened when Morne walked into Dealership:

Morne: Do you have any proper M cars in stock
BMW Salesperson: Nope
Morne:
BMW Salesperson: Wait - let me make a plan
Morne: :rollsmile:
BMW Salesperson gets on phone to workshop: Hey guys, we've got some leftover bits - can you slap something, put an M badge on it and bring the car out quickly cos I've got a client waiting here

:rollsmile:

And in other breaking news, msm was run over by a mysterious driver in a white 1M recently :fencelook:

 

[Bugger]

I was looking for an e90 M3 and just couldn't find one that ticked all the boxes, and they weren't available new anymore and in my search this happened: http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=31964

This is actually what happened when Morne walked into Dealership:

Morne: Do you have any proper M cars in stock
BMW Salesperson: Nope
Morne:
BMW Salesperson: Wait - let me make a plan
Morne: :rollsmile:
BMW Salesperson gets on phone to workshop: Hey guys, we've got some leftover bits - can you slap something, put an M badge on it and bring the car out quickly cos I've got a client waiting here

:rollsmile:

And in other breaking news, msm was run over by a mysterious driver in a white 1M recently :fencelook:

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

I was looking for an e90 M3 and just couldn't find one that ticked all the boxes, and they weren't available new anymore and in my search this happened: http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=31964

This is actually what happened when Morne walked into Dealership:

Morne: Do you have any proper M cars in stock
BMW Salesperson: Nope
Morne:
BMW Salesperson: Wait - let me make a plan
Morne: :rollsmile:
BMW Salesperson gets on phone to workshop: Hey guys, we've got some leftover bits - can you slap something, put an M badge on it and bring the car out quickly cos I've got a client waiting here

:rollsmile:

And in other breaking news, msm was run over by a mysterious driver in a white 1M recently :fencelook:

:biglol::roflol:

 

[SP33DYV]

Holy sheet.

---

Maybe this answers all our questions....

---

[video=youtube]

Very interesting video clip.

---

I was looking for an e90 M3 and just couldn't find one that ticked all the boxes, and they weren't available new anymore and in my search this happened: http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=31964

This is actually what happened when Morne walked into Dealership:

Morne: Do you have any proper M cars in stock
BMW Salesperson: Nope
Morne:
BMW Salesperson: Wait - let me make a plan
Morne: :rollsmile:
BMW Salesperson gets on phone to workshop: Hey guys, we've got some leftover bits - can you slap something, put an M badge on it and bring the car out quickly cos I've got a client waiting here

:rollsmile:

And in other breaking news, msm was run over by a mysterious driver in a white 1M recently :fencelook:

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

 

[Bugger]

We've been going on about the fundamental differences between an M and standard models, there you have it, from the engineers themselves. Now we know what we already knew,so we know more than we knew before,if you know what I mean?