the last of the true M cars

[Redline]

That does look familiar :fencelook:

I don't agree with it being the last true M car. The E46 M3 has it outclassed in every possible way except maybe rear legroom :biglol:

But it was not hand built it was a mass produced factory item that had some extras added. As I said th3 E34 was the last Handbuilt M car with personal attention to detail. And as for the desicion to mass produce for commercial reasons I still believe the whole point of an M car is that it is special a limited edition and if you (BMW) chose to mass produce they should have given it a different insignia so as not to deminish the value of what the "M" stands for.

I don't think because it is hand built it automatically a better car. The E34 M5 has some problems which the E46 and some other M cars don't. Key among is the 540i/6. The 540i/6 is more rare than the M5 (72(5) 540i's vs 265 M5's), it is more economical (strange but true) and has almost identical handling prowess. If the M5 has "hardness and uncompromising super performance" that you speak of the 540i/6 has it as well.

MMMMMMMMM

I beg to differ if I recall a 540/6 test I read the 540 had the same suspension as the auto. I have driven a E34540 & owned a E34 M5. The handling & braking of the M is, to my mind, far superior.

Also I found my old M5 to have better consumption than my E39 540, which I understand is lighter than the E34 540

Fordkoppie,

Since you have an example of each your input please?

 

[OppositeLockMT]

Welcome.

Came across a 3.8 E34 M5 (335HP) here in England, totally one me over. Seen plenty F10 M5s around that don't get as close to stirring my emotions in the same way that the E34 did.

 

[msm]

Different strokes for different folks too. Some fanatics determine a "true" M car by the fact that it is hand built, some by the fact that it is N/A, some by the handling, etc, etc. Everyone has a valid view on this. I like this thread as there's some nice opinions. I especially like the view on the 1M - never thought of it that way before.

Let me throw the car amongst the pigeons too: One day we'll have a diesel M car. Some would call the M550d that already. We live in interesting times...

The one thing that does concern me is how commercial it has all become. The M badge is certainly losing it's sparkle when it's being slapped onto everything :thumbdo:

 

[markbsimon]

Different strokes for different folks too. Some fanatics determine a "true" M car by the fact that it is hand built, some by the fact that it is N/A, some by the handling, etc, etc. Everyone has a valid view on this. I like this thread as there's some nice opinions. I especially like the view on the 1M - never thought of it that way before.

Let me throw the car amongst the pigeons too: One day we'll have a diesel M car. Some would call the M550d that already. We live in interesting times...

The one thing that does concern me is how commercial it has all become. The M badge is certainly losing it's sparkle when it's being slapped onto everything :thumbdo:

You said it brother! Next thing you know it we will have front wheel drive BMW that they will dare to call an M3... ... I hope I am not around to see that day.
"In much the same way, BMW purists are scoffing at the company’s plans to introduce front-wheel drive cars. The first will be the 1-Series GT, which was previewed by the Active Tourer concept that was displayed at this year’s Paris Auto Show, and starting from 2013, will rival the Mercedes B-Class." Why not just slap an M badge on a mini LOL

---

Different strokes for different folks too. Some fanatics determine a "true" M car by the fact that it is hand built, some by the fact that it is N/A, some by the handling, etc, etc. Everyone has a valid view on this. I like this thread as there's some nice opinions. I especially like the view on the 1M - never thought of it that way before.

Let me throw the car amongst the pigeons too: One day we'll have a diesel M car. Some would call the M550d that already. We live in interesting times...

The one thing that does concern me is how commercial it has all become. The M badge is certainly losing it's sparkle when it's being slapped onto everything :thumbdo:

You said it brother! Next thing you know it we will have front wheel drive BMW that they will dare to call an M3... ... I hope I am not around to see that day.
"In much the same way, BMW purists are scoffing at the company’s plans to introduce front-wheel drive cars. The first will be the 1-Series GT, which was previewed by the Active Tourer concept that was displayed at this year’s Paris Auto Show, and starting from 2013, will rival the Mercedes B-Class." Why not just slap an M badge on a mini LOL

At some point the opinion of their Brand loyal customers must count!

 

[Andy1GP]

Firstly welcome and check out this thread.

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=44982

I reckon you're better off buying this motor, and keeping one for spares. As they are scarce as hens teeth, you could even part out left overs.

I get what you're saying with respect to the heritage the M use to carry. And as far as the last or best M car is concerned I reckon that title belongs to the E46 M3 CSL. But then again it bears the CSL badge. Which is even more rare and unique than the M itself. But nonetheless it is an M3.

"BMW at it's absolute best" Quoted by some tall dorky british guy (which also happens to be a BMW slater)

I don't even want to comment on the other cars bearing M badges. From what I've read we all agree that too many BMW's have M badges on them for whatever reason.

It could be that they are making all their cars SO good, that they are struggling to differentiate the M's from the regular stable mates. The M135i being the perfect example.

The E46 M3 overall is also pretty good for competing for best M title. Even till today it gives the E9x M3 a run for it's money, and with little effort I've seen faster E46's. That's just dissapointing. The predecessor should never match the replacement. That's why I won't get one, it's just not that much better.

The S54 engine won the International engine of the year award as well as best new engine upon introduction in 2001. It then further dominated it's class for 6 years in a row from 2001-2006 (3-4L) when it was retired from the M3. Not even porsche could match it. The motor was so good they carried on fitting it in the Z4M.

Enough babbling. We all have our Favourites. These are mine

 

[kabal]

to be fair, bmw dont claim the M135i to be an "///M" car.

they are "M Performance" cars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M

besides, there is "hand built" and there is hand built.
when you take bread out of the packet, and some marg from the fridge, that is "hand built"
when you bake the bread, and churn the butter, that is hand built :fencelook:

I would rather a machine welded on panels to a body with micron precision, better than a human ever could
I also prefer paying Ryyyy for a car, instead of Ryyyy x 10

 

[Clownshoe]

More like hand assembled... than hand made.

2002 was by far the best year for the M Division. The S54 MCoupe and the E39 M5... but then I am biased.

 

[Dean ///M]

M3 CSL & Z4M Coupe my favourites. 1 of each please

 

[Legacy]

That does look familiar :fencelook:

I don't agree with it being the last true M car. The E46 M3 has it outclassed in every possible way except maybe rear legroom :biglol:

But it was not hand built it was a mass produced factory item that had some extras added. As I said th3 E34 was the last Handbuilt M car with personal attention to detail. And as for the desicion to mass produce for commercial reasons I still believe the whole point of an M car is that it is special a limited edition and if you (BMW) chose to mass produce they should have given it a different insignia so as not to deminish the value of what the "M" stands for.

I don't think because it is hand built it automatically a better car. The E34 M5 has some problems which the E46 and some other M cars don't. Key among is the 540i/6. The 540i/6 is more rare than the M5 (72(5) 540i's vs 265 M5's), it is more economical (strange but true) and has almost identical handling prowess. If the M5 has "hardness and uncompromising super performance" that you speak of the 540i/6 has it as well.

MMMMMMMMM

I beg to differ if I recall a 540/6 test I read the 540 had the same suspension as the auto. I have driven a E34540 & owned a E34 M5. The handling & braking of the M is, to my mind, far superior.

Also I found my old M5 to have better consumption than my E39 540, which I understand is lighter than the E34 540

Fordkoppie,

Since you have an example of each your input please?

The 540i/6 most certainly does not have the same suspension as the auto. Different springs, shocks, anti roll bars etc. I agree with the brakes, the M5's is worlds apart from the others. PS: I currently own an M5 and a 540i and have owned a 540i/6 till a few months ago.

 

[Bugger]

The biggest thing is not whether or not current M cars are the purist of the lot,but what the M badge means. It used to be the stuff that was whispered in the passages.....mostly because they were so rare. That doesn't exist anymore unfortunately,they are just too common. As much as I love M cars,and my biased view is I would rather drive an M,but the fact of the matter is they just don't evoke that whole awe inspiring feeling anymore.

As for the E46 M3......of all the cars I have ever owned that is the one I miss the most. It was a driver's car. Ya sure, there were/are faster cars,but every time I got into that car I smiled and grinned like a kid,it just had that effect on you. When I look back,I would rather have kept that than got an RS4. I am glad I got the RS4 because now I know what I was missing,hence going back to an M. The E90 is an awesome car, the power delivery is stunning and on tap right through the rev range,the sound it makes is fantastic and it has lots of creature comforts. But the E46 M3 will always have a very special place for me.

We each have our own opinion on this and the great thing is it is well spirited banter between a whole bunch of enthusiasts. To those who haven't yet owned an M of any sort, you have to do it,even once in your life,and it doesn't matter which it is, E34,E36,E46,E39,E60,F10,E90,just once you must own one of these cars (forgive me if I have left out the others,I just don't know their chassis designations!:roflol. The simple fact of the matter is there IS something different about an M from a standard BMW,even if the standard is faster than the M,the M is just a completely different car for a whole bunch of reasons. The M should be the pinnacle of what a series of BMW is,unfortunately BMW don't seem to agree with us for the sake of branding and sales.

To the guys that DO have anything with an M badge on it,the fact is that you still drive an absolutely stunning car, regardless of the badge on the back. BMW's aren't called the ultimate driving machine for nothing now are they?

 

[Mr H]

The biggest thing is not whether or not current M cars are the purist of the lot,but what the M badge means. It used to be the stuff that was whispered in the passages.....mostly because they were so rare. That doesn't exist anymore unfortunately,they are just too common. As much as I love M cars,and my biased view is I would rather drive an M,but the fact of the matter is they just don't evoke that whole awe inspiring feeling anymore.

As for the E46 M3......of all the cars I have ever owned that is the one I miss the most. It was a driver's car. Ya sure, there were/are faster cars,but every time I got into that car I smiled and grinned like a kid,it just had that effect on you. When I look back,I would rather have kept that than got an RS4. I am glad I got the RS4 because now I know what I was missing,hence going back to an M. The E90 is an awesome car, the power delivery is stunning and on tap right through the rev range,the sound it makes is fantastic and it has lots of creature comforts. But the E46 M3 will always have a very special place for me.

We each have our own opinion on this and the great thing is it is well spirited banter between a whole bunch of enthusiasts. To those who haven't yet owned an M of any sort, you have to do it,even once in your life,and it doesn't matter which it is, E34,E36,E46,E39,E60,F10,E90,just once you must own one of these cars (forgive me if I have left out the others,I just don't know their chassis designations!:roflol. The simple fact of the matter is there IS something different about an M from a standard BMW,even if the standard is faster than the M,the M is just a completely different car for a whole bunch of reasons. The M should be the pinnacle of what a series of BMW is,unfortunately BMW don't seem to agree with us for the sake of branding and sales.

To the guys that DO have anything with an M badge on it,the fact is that you still drive an absolutely stunning car, regardless of the badge on the back. BMW's aren't called the ultimate driving machine for nothing now are they?

Well said! There are M's and there are REAL M's.. Pity about the 'prostitution' of the brand..

 

[mr mmm]

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

 

[///Shaun]

E35 M5

Enough Said....


raise:raise:raise:

 

[markbsimon]

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

 

[SP33DYV]

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

 

[Bugger]

opcorn:

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

We're only on page 3... :fencelook:

---

opcorn:

I think it's healthy debate. Wouldn't mind the opinion of a Hiace driver with an ///M badge on it.....:fencelook:

---

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

 

[msm]

Just look at what the other similar brands are doing. Audi has their "S" and "RS" lines.

Merc had their AMG, which they diluted. Then they came out with the hardcore Black Series.

BMW's marketing department is caught between a rock and a hard place. They should have kept the M badge for what it was intended and created a new sub-brand one below it for cars like the M135i, M550d, etc. IMO calling it ///M performance, along with ///M was the mistake they made here.

 

[Jandre]

m has to evolve and its done what the world reqiured
looking back 10 years from now people will be praising current m models
and echoing your words about thre future

I tend to disagree, no they won't be because there are just too many "M"s out there, that they won't be special any more, they will just blur into obscurity with all the other manufacturers performance chatter and noise and the newer "M" models will be better but also no longer special. This is the the the demise brought on by messing with the "specialness" of what the "M" should stand for.

---

Can I pick a topic or what?
My suggestion for the new performance badge instead of the "M" badge LOL

---

You should see a debate on oil. At this stage we would have been on page 12 already.

 

[msm]

Just to add to this, I also think the M drivers need to appreciate other BMWs as well...... use it, don't use it....

Agreed :thumbs:

In jest we often joke about cars like the M135i - but in all honesty, they are brilliant, brilliant drivers vehicles.

The M branding is the controversial part.

 

[Fordkoppie]

More like hand assembled... than hand made.

Precisely.

I think a lot of people misunderstands the whole "handbuilt" thing.

It is not as if there is an old toppie that starts with a sheet of metal and a toolbox of different sized hammers + anvil and an M5 emerges on the other side.

In the case of the e34 M5, it only meant that the drivetrain and seats were fitted to the partly finished car by dedicated 2 - 3 persons per car on a hoist. The body was still taken from a mass produced production line.

The S38 engine was still machined by computerized equipment and just measured for accuracy + assembled by a few dedicated engineers. They did not start with an iron heap and filed out a block.

A Morgan is a true hand build car