M2 CS, will it live up to the 1M's Legacy ?

[nish_M240i]

Howsit Fanatics

So I'm sure all of you know by now that an M2 CS will be released in 2021 (could be released even later as a result of COVID-19).

This car has the same S55 engine found in the M2 Comp and the F80 M3 and M4. It has 331kw and 550nm which is the same as an M3/M4 Competition. It will be offered in either a 6MT transmission or a 7 Speed DCT transmission and its claimed 0-100 is under 4 seconds. The bonnet, front splitter and the roof are all carbon fibre. There's also a lot of carbon parts on the inside (including Alcantara steering wheel and centre console). This will result in it being much lighter than the M2 Comp. It rides on 19-inch Y-spoke wheels in a gloss black finish and shod in Michelin Sport Cup 2 rubber. Carbon ceramics are an additional option with the CS. 

We apparently will be limited to under 30 of these in South Africa and the price is expected to be between R1.4 to R1.7 million. 

But the main question is, will it live up to the legacy of the BMW 1M Coupe? The standard N55 M2 was brought in as a successor to the 1M, but it didn't live up to its legacy as it was mass produced and replaced 2 years later by the M2 Comp which also hasn't quite lived up to the 1M's legacy. To date, the 1M has appreciated relatively high in value, examples range from R700k to R1 Million even and back in 2011 it retailed brand new at around as little as R550K. From what I've heard, we were limited to under 70 1Ms in the country. It truly is a special car.

Coming back to the M2 CS, I think there's a possibility this might live up to the 1M's legacy considering its a limited edition model and they'll be rare. But in recent years we've seen rare cars drop in value. For example, the M4 GTS and the M4 DTM, those a few years back were selling for around R3 Million, and today you can get one for less than R1.5 Million and yet they were limited to 23 models in SA. One of the limited models that has definitely held its value well and appreciated with the 1M is the M3 CSL, which a clean low mileage example sells for an easy R1,5 Million or even more. Even high mileage ones sell for about R800K (a CSL with 152K on the clock sold recently by CBA for R800K).

So what are your thoughts on this M2 CS, will it live up to the legacy left behind by the 1M, and would it become an icon in the years to come ?

 

[TurboLlew]

It won't IMHO

 

[Woodies]

Also don’t think so. The 1M and the E46 M3 CSL etc became special cars. Nowadays BMW seems to make these LTD edition things to try make them special before they are even launched.
It will be an amazing car, but it’s price is amazing too

 

[momo1]

With limited units and all the carbon bits , it will certainly be special.
if the comp didn't exist it probably will be up there with the 1M and CSL, but the fact that we did I'm pessimistic

 

[MR_Y]

The 1M and the M3 CSL were priced well when they were new, even though they came in limited numbers.
The 1M was significantly cheaper than a Cayman S of that era and the CSL was cheaper than a 911 Carrera S of its era.

The M2CS is being pitched above a new Cayman GTS 4.0, so straightaway it is sitting at a price disadvantage.

Performance BMWs were seen as underdogs that punched above their weight.
They were hot versions of everyday family cars that managed to properly scare the sports car establishment, for significantly less dough.

 

[TBP88]

Not sure why people think the M2 didn't live up to the 1M? Sure the 1M was an appreciative car, mostly because of the low production numbers. But by all accounts the M2 is pretty great to drive, the newer ones even more so now that they have a "real" M engine.

Will any of these limited run cars appreciate greatly? I doubt it. At the end of the day, even something like a 1M or an M3CSL has a ceiling on it's value. I'd like to meet the guy who dropped R800k on a 152k km M3CSL, seems extremely silly. You can get a 996GT3 for R100k more. At the end of the day the ceiling for used values on BMWs will always be stuff like porsches, maseratis etc. Sure some really special stuff is worth insane money, like M1s worth R10m+. But the more "normal" cars are never going to be worth serious (R2m+ levels) cash, just because it's a BMW.

 

[IWannaGoFast]

Look how the M4 cs value dropped.

Also "limited" edition.

 

[TurboLlew]

The 1M and the M3 CSL were priced well when they were new, even though they came in limited numbers.
The 1M was significantly cheaper than a Cayman S of that era and the CSL was cheaper than a 911 Carrera S of its era.

The M2CS is being pitched above a new Cayman GTS 4.0, so straightaway it is sitting at a price disadvantage.

Performance BMWs were seen as underdogs that punched above their weight.
They were hot versions of everyday family cars that managed to properly scare the sports car establishment, for significantly less dough.

This is what it boils down to ultimately in my view. BMWs were what the 'little' cars aspired to kill. They were also the ones killing the 'sportscars' or even supercars of the time.

You can go on all you want about how amazing a CS is, but it must justify its existence vs. some very special things.

Personally (In one of my few examples where I will speak like this) as an owner of a previous gen M car in one of the higher tiers, which I didn't buy close to end of plan (and which I spent a lot of money on with BMW and extending plan), I found it difficult to stay with the brand. There are die-hards who bought the F90 at launch and paid the price dearly on trades (now) and with LCI. 

There isn't anything very special that is new except the M8 competition and it seems BMW is not targeting any of their traditional audience with it... Again - it is an absolutely amazing car with amazing numbers if you look at in isolation... but not vs. a 911 Turbo which is actually the same price AFTER options as the M8 and the big brother turbo S with even better numbers is not much more expensive... 

If you think any of the special M4s are actually special you have blinkers on. There is a reason they are not keeping their value. Those customers that trusted BMW with that extra money will think twice. Either way at this rate they might end up being GT3 money.

All these cars are amazing in isolation but not vs. Porsche or Ferrari or even the new Aston Martins which are loosely disguised V8TT AMGs.

Look at how many fanatics are driving Porsches already. That should tell you a lot. Recently it sounds like we are all suffering from Stockholm syndrome with this brand and the new offerings.

 

[ChrisPy]

Another issue not touch on yet is also how the 1M was bespoke in that it was a limited run with bespoke mechanicals and bodywork drivetrain etc.

With the M2 CS it’s still based on the M2 Comp with cosmetic changes that any Tom Dick and Harry can buy and fit to their M2 or M2 comp and have essentially the same car. Something that is based on a stable mate but only has a tune and some carbon fibre bits with stickers to me is not a limited run car. It’s just a “Special edition” and this isn’t  collectible I’m my opinion.

The ingredient I think needs to be a limited run base model that is not shared with other stable mates.

Like mentioned already when going the route of “special editions” the Porsche’s are just that more tempting unless BMW undercut the pricing against the competitors.

 

[TBP88]

I was actually out looking at cars, as you gents know I'm starting to look for the next ride. Truth be told it's just very, very difficult to look passed a Porsche for the money we are being charged.

CLA45s AMG? R1.4m - Cayman GTS4.0 money? Who would take the CLA if they didn't need 4 doors/4seats???

M2 comp? R1.2m - 991.1 C4S money

TT RS - R1.1m - 991.1 C2S money.

These are all nice cars, but really now? A CLA45S will be worth R500k by the time your plan runs out, R900k worth of depreciation? A Cayman GTS4.0 will likely be worth R300k or even R400k more than that car?

As Llew said - the issue is with how they've positioned themselves, when the E36M3 launched it'd murder a stock 993 C2S and was half the price. Today? a kitted M4 comp is R1.6m (seriously, on the floor at BMW canal walk). That's enough to get a cayman GT4? Or get a demo 992 911! The whole point of "M" cars was a sensible car, that was cheaper but would still take on serious performance cars. Now they themselves *are* the performance cars.

Hell, the same thing has happened to GTIs - I'm pretty sure the next gen Golf R with some kit on it will be a R1m car. Insane.

Imagine telling somebody when the Mk2 GTI was ripping it up against superbosses that in 25-30yrs time somebody would pay R1m for a golf...

Mad.

 

[MR_Y]

If BMW made a hot version of its upcoming 2-series coupe (or even the gran coupe) with bare bones spec, manual box, RWD and a sweet 6 cylinder motor, that would be pure heaven.
Sadly, BMW would rather create a Golf/S3 rival - can't blame them, seeing that the Merc A/CLA are also just posh Golfs.

 

[GravityLee]

The 1M and the M3 CSL were priced well when they were new, even though they came in limited numbers.
The 1M was significantly cheaper than a Cayman S of that era and the CSL was cheaper than a 911 Carrera S of its era.

The M2CS is being pitched above a new Cayman GTS 4.0, so straightaway it is sitting at a price disadvantage.

Performance BMWs were seen as underdogs that punched above their weight.
They were hot versions of everyday family cars that managed to properly scare the sports car establishment, for significantly less dough.

Bingo.

 

[QikNish]

There was a time when BMW's special cars cost far less than the Porsches and the like that it bettered. Now...similar money to a new BMW buys you a worthy competitor.

 

[M135]

Howsit Fanatics

So I'm sure all of you know by now that an M2 CS will be released in 2021 (could be released even later as a result of COVID-19).

This car has the same S55 engine found in the M2 Comp and the F80 M3 and M4. It has 331kw and 550nm which is the same as an M3/M4 Competition. It will be offered in either a 6MT transmission or a 7 Speed DCT transmission and its claimed 0-100 is under 4 seconds. The bonnet, front splitter and the roof are all carbon fibre. There's also a lot of carbon parts on the inside (including Alcantara steering wheel and centre console). This will result in it being much lighter than the M2 Comp. It rides on 19-inch Y-spoke wheels in a gloss black finish and shod in Michelin Sport Cup 2 rubber. Carbon ceramics are an additional option with the CS. 

We apparently will be limited to under 30 of these in South Africa and the price is expected to be between R1.4 to R1.7 million. 

But the main question is, will it live up to the legacy of the BMW 1M Coupe? The standard N55 M2 was brought in as a successor to the 1M, but it didn't live up to its legacy as it was mass produced and replaced 2 years later by the M2 Comp which also hasn't quite lived up to the 1M's legacy. To date, the 1M has appreciated relatively high in value, examples range from R700k to R1 Million even and back in 2011 it retailed brand new at around as little as R550K. From what I've heard, we were limited to under 70 1Ms in the country. It truly is a special car.

Coming back to the M2 CS, I think there's a possibility this might live up to the 1M's legacy considering its a limited edition model and they'll be rare. But in recent years we've seen rare cars drop in value. For example, the M4 GTS and the M4 DTM, those a few years back were selling for around R3 Million, and today you can get one for less than R1.5 Million and yet they were limited to 23 models in SA. One of the limited models that has definitely held its value well and appreciated with the 1M is the M3 CSL, which a clean low mileage example sells for an easy R1,5 Million or even more. Even high mileage ones sell for about R800K (a CSL with 152K on the clock sold recently by CBA for R800K).

So what are your thoughts on this M2 CS, will it live up to the legacy left behind by the 1M, and would it become an icon in the years to come ?

Live up to the 1M’s legacy or not. It’s a frikken fast car!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Peter@AEW]

For a mass producing car company to have a collectible it needs to create a car well above the rest of its production.

In the case of BMW when it introduced the E24 M635 it was the only car in its line up which produced 215Kw.
It them introduced the E28 M5 with similar performance and at a lesser price to the E24 M635.
The E30 M3 was again a benchmark car which had and still has value.


The E36 M3 was introduced in 1992 and was once again the benchmark of speed for the brand.

Today we have at least 6 models (as well as versions of those models) that are very close to the M2cs.

In the past you would say I drive an M3 or an M5 and you would not need to explain further.
Today that no longer holds and you need to explain which M car version you drive.

As soon as this happens the car does not have collector value.
Manufacturers are in it for the volume and not the exclusivity which owners desire.

For exclusivity and appreciating value  one needs to now more than ever look to the low volume producers.

On another note when your out of plan special BMW costs as much to service as a Ferrari do you really want to be paying the bills?

In the case of the M2 BMW has added R10000 of carbon bits and is demanding a R400000 premium on it.
Get out of here

 

[TurboLlew]

100% right @"Peter@AEW"

Again I say when everything is 'special' nothing is special. Read a bit into the Corvette community in the US - everyone advertises cars with this flowery language and wants to believe they have this car made on a Wednesday, in some specific colour and that colour is unique because on that day they added extra metal flakes into the group and it can never be replicated - blah blah blah. It has become a joke. Guys are already talking about "off the shelf" colours on the M2 as rare.

There is a difference between performance, desirability and exclusivity/rarity. On the first two parts, I think BMW WAS doing a good job. On the latter, it has just gotten progressively worse to the degree that we are having this discussion here. Service is another. BMW is amazing vs. other brands like Toyota in terms of experience. They are nowhere vs. Ferrari or Porsche or McLaren/Daytona. McLaren in SA makes for a better ownership experience than buying one in the UK because of the service and treatment you get (ditto Aston Martin).

After selling M5s and M6s in this price range for years, R1.3M is now no longer good enough for BMW to treat you properly though... take what's on the floor, oh and that 'exclusive model' you're buying? The one with some CF and tupperware that you're still considering because you love the brand? Well we are going to release another 3 or 4 in the next year and your value will tank... You apparently can't get individual build slots so their configurator is useless... yet the individual cars with idiotic specs show up on dealer floors... so dealers themselves or BMW SA are 'using up' the build slots to produce these things while chasing those who want custom builds to Porsche who will build you a custom base-spec Boxter if you want it.

BMW owners (all of us) must go and look at what else is out there at these prices that we are asked to pay these days. Porsche will surprise you. So will Aston Martin

The "take it or leave it" attitude to spec is also a problem. I mentioned before how I was told to basically just buy what they had available - on a brand new car over R1M - Porsche did not give me that attitude even though I would be spending far less than the average Porsche buyer and it would be my first one. They also went out of their way to find me a GT4 in as close of a spec as I had described to them (even getting it from a client's collection for me to drive).

The first moment of truth is what BMW doesn't battle with - the cars are plenty fun to drive and engaging and smell nice, feel nice, have the right tech... you can even justify the price in your mind if you are willing to accept the depreciation.

The second moment of truth is where they have failed me twice now first with the F90 and subsequently M2 Competition. They themselves were talking down the CS trying to get me to buy an M2 Comp last year when I bought the 4C & C200.

Back to the topic at hand, a mass-produced, high performance car, with good engagement is a good thing... it is actually very desirable - but the M2 (and similar cars) are anything but exclusive. Around Midrand/Kyalami you might think they sold more M2s (and 3s and 4s) than their x240 and x135i sisters. The CS "exclusive" parts were available already - this exercise was (like other BMW "editions") to get rid of those.

The last comment I have here is (to nobody's surprise) the CS might not be the last 'special' edition: They might still launch a CSL...

I know there are Markus Flasch workshippers here but this is what Mr. Marketing has to say on a CSL: "To be honest, we haven't decided yet, but we will do more special models than in the past,"

Good luck M2 CS suckers.