BMW G87 M2 CS

TBP88

Well-known member
Dunno, again, I've got a kid. If I want to have fun, I have a fun car. When I do a commute or go to a park or the mall I have the most boring vehicle on earth.

I like the look of the current M2 - and the CS even more. But unless your space limitations mean *you must* only own one car (again, this is an extreme rare case in this country), then why not just get a boring day car and a porsche for similar-ish money. A previous gen 6pot Cayman S will be miles better than an M2 on a pass and at ~30% of the cost, spend another bit on maintaining and modding to get carplay and the like, some new rims and whatever you want and you have probably over R1m spare to get a reliable daily (hell, at R1mish levels you're getting another fun car like a GTI or something!).

The M2 use case is so narrow to my mind *I must have a fun car for all times* or *I must have 1 car that does it all well*. Besides that? Why?
 

tamgoem

Well-known member
Nonsense I selected my G87 because it has a superior interior compared to Merc and Audi! Yes I test drove many a car before choosing the G87 not sure what cheapness you refer to ? Secondly the Auto in my G87 is much better than my previous F82 M4 with a DCT box. Car is heavy yes on paper, don't feel it on road to be honest, didn't feel it on track either(Kyalami) but that is same for G87/G80/G82 none of those drivers care until they start seeking Porsche thats when things start to get real and so does the amount you spend..

Pop and bangs ? What you are referring to ? A few burbles on my G87 nothing like you mention most of your commentary seems to be without fact rather just your clouded opinion on "what" you think the G8x series cars are about.

Porsche is what we all aspire to be but its a purpose built car like mentioned here, 99% of the time a practical beast like a G80 sedan will win hands down and that is after taking Porsche pedigree into consideration! As whiteunderarm said the car to have when kids are all grown up.

Sure thing there. Had one drove it 130 or so kilos at roads of my choice, got back in the Z and was starkly reminded one of them is sterile and boring the other is a unruly son of a bitch that wishes for you to end your life.

I don't need a jack of all trades and a master of absolutely nothing. I each car i own is very fit for it's purpose. The purpose for the M2 for me would be as a replacement for the Z and it does not come close as a driving experience to warrant the expense. A 911 does warrant at least some serious homework on the matter, and again why i can be so pedantic about the manual thing. I have my auto's for everywhere else. If it is not manual i am simply not interested in it. The M2 was at a short point offered in manual i drove it and it was not good.
 

Nishcat_M140i

///Member
I was in the same camp, I guess times change. In actual fact I got way my compliments on my G87 than my previous F82 M4. The car has gained respect amongst petrol heads there is a small minority who will carry on about it being a Lego car, I have driven RS3 and A45s give me the lego car any day. I haven't seen a G87 on BMW Midrand's showroom floor stay there for more than 2 to 4 weeks before its scooped up! So I guess Lego's will always sell because the kid in everyone must have one.
Having owned the lastest RS3 8Y Sedan in the 6 months that I did, I can honestly agree with this.

Yeah the RS3s and A45s are quick cars, but personally I feel they don't have a soul and you get bored of them quite easily. I use to get so bored of driving that car to the point that I use to always swap cars with my mother. She use to use the RS3 and I use to drive her X3M comp most of the time, that's how much I use to miss the feeling of driving a BMW.

People are quick to tell me that selling the RS3 and buying the M140i was a huge downgrade. In all honesty though, I would rather drive he M140i being the older, less powerful, out of warranty, free hold car that I actually enjoy driving than the RS3 which I got bored of.

But with regards to the G87, its an absolutely amazing car. I never liked the design at first, but with time it grew on me and I can honestly see myself getting one eventually.

G87 >>>>>>>>>>> G82
 

Quick///M

Well-known member
Having owned the lastest RS3 8Y Sedan in the 6 months that I did, I can honestly agree with this.

Yeah the RS3s and A45s are quick cars, but personally I feel they don't have a soul and you get bored of them quite easily. I use to get so bored of driving that car to the point that I use to always swap cars with my mother. She use to use the RS3 and I use to drive her X3M comp most of the time, that's how much I use to miss the feeling of driving a BMW.

People are quick to tell me that selling the RS3 and buying the M140i was a huge downgrade. In all honesty though, I would rather drive he M140i being the older, less powerful, out of warranty, free hold car that I actually enjoy driving than the RS3 which I got bored of.

But with regards to the G87, its an absolutely amazing car. I never liked the design at first, but with time it grew on me and I can honestly see myself getting one eventually.

G87 >>>>>>>>>>> G82

The M140i is special!!! Why ??? Because the B58 motor as well as RWD is just pure magic this is what BMW is known for, they also sound amazing if you were to add downpipes and a performance exhaust hell if you just did the M Performance exhaust it would still sound amazing. 20kw gain on just a downpipe on my previous M135i was enough to take on RS3's rolling

Back to RS3 yes I also test drove 2 of these, one hatch and the other was a sedan. One was at a dealership and one was brought to my home on a Saturday to drive while they are great cars they were not for me, the interior was not on the same level as BMW to many plastics in the cabin. Tech was good enough to keep most happy... I still prefer the tech from BMW I-Drive systems both old and new! Then the drive did not do it for me in terms of on road feel, it goes fast consistently and then it becomes a chore! That is why people tend to get bored quick they do sound good though and when modified they will probably get you into the 9/10 bracket on the 1/4 mile easy, but they lack the drama I know BMW for and for me this started with M135i then F82 M2, and get this my M340i X Drive was a much more engaging car than the RS3!!! I had loads of fun in the M340i it has just enough rear wheel bias to give you confidence to push it more and more and before I sold I had to replace all 4 tyres cause all I was doing with this car was power sliding into corners, while smiling as the M performance exhaust gave me "Aural" pleasure.

G87 put it in MDM and have a blast, the car engages you and sometimes you may almost soil yourself, its asking to pushed hard in every corner, its asking you floor it on the highway and watch the speed climb to a point where the new traffic laws get you banned for life!!! TC OFF if you want to do Cape Town things.

Yeah then there is Porsche - Don't drive it it will ruin BMW for you (Not being Sarcastic here)
 

Del-Bosc

Active member
I seem to be posting consistently about Porsche these days (have I become one of those people who measure the distance from your elbow bend to the steering wheel to have the right seating position) . Nonetheless I digress, the current m3 X drive is a 2bar car. It has practically offering 4doors and boot space. So if you looking to cross shop why not look at the Cayenne gts e3 shape, they are priced well at around the same money, amazing practicality as well. Did I mention it’s a v8 TT and with handling capabilities that are highly impressive.
 

Nishcat_M140i

///Member
The M140i is special!!! Why ??? Because the B58 motor as well as RWD is just pure magic this is what BMW is known for, they also sound amazing if you were to add downpipes and a performance exhaust hell if you just did the M Performance exhaust it would still sound amazing. 20kw gain on just a downpipe on my previous M135i was enough to take on RS3's rolling

Back to RS3 yes I also test drove 2 of these, one hatch and the other was a sedan. One was at a dealership and one was brought to my home on a Saturday to drive while they are great cars they were not for me, the interior was not on the same level as BMW to many plastics in the cabin. Tech was good enough to keep most happy... I still prefer the tech from BMW I-Drive systems both old and new! Then the drive did not do it for me in terms of on road feel, it goes fast consistently and then it becomes a chore! That is why people tend to get bored quick they do sound good though and when modified they will probably get you into the 9/10 bracket on the 1/4 mile easy, but they lack the drama I know BMW for and for me this started with M135i then F82 M2, and get this my M340i X Drive was a much more engaging car than the RS3!!! I had loads of fun in the M340i it has just enough rear wheel bias to give you confidence to push it more and more and before I sold I had to replace all 4 tyres cause all I was doing with this car was power sliding into corners, while smiling as the M performance exhaust gave me "Aural" pleasure.

G87 put it in MDM and have a blast, the car engages you and sometimes you may almost soil yourself, its asking to pushed hard in every corner, its asking you floor it on the highway and watch the speed climb to a point where the new traffic laws get you banned for life!!! TC OFF if you want to do Cape Town things.

Yeah then there is Porsche - Don't drive it it will ruin BMW for you (Not being Sarcastic here)
Most definitely, its a car I definitely plan on holding onto long term wise. I mean, its not 1M special and rare, but its definitely a very special car indeed. I currently only have an M performance exhaust on it but I do plan on doing a DP, Midpipe and a tune on it eventually. I have upgraded to the TU fuel pump and an LSD and it makes a huge difference to the way the car handles and performs. Before I bought the RS3, I had the M240i and I loved it. B58 is something really special.
 

Quick///M

Well-known member
I seem to be posting consistently about Porsche these days (have I become one of those people who measure the distance from your elbow bend to the steering wheel to have the right seating position) . Nonetheless I digress, the current m3 X drive is a 2bar car. It has practically offering 4doors and boot space. So if you looking to cross shop why not look at the Cayenne gts e3 shape, they are priced well at around the same money, amazing practicality as well. Did I mention it’s a v8 TT and with handling capabilities that are highly impressive.
Nice choice on the M3!!! In stock form its already brutal and has also become a highly respected car across the globe, guys purchase these things and on day one its in for mods! When it leaves the mod shop you have a 10second street car. Its a machine for Dad who can have his fun when the family is not around, really its not something to cross shop against a 911 especially when you are a family man unless you can have multiple cars! The GTS (Cayenne) maybe capable but not everyone wants a performance SUV I have met quite a few guys who believe that performance SUVs should not exist :ROFLMAO:
 

TBP88

Well-known member

Ill just leave this here
I think stuff like this misses the point, almost completely. Is the new M2 a great car. Nobody in their right mind questions that. The question is twofold
1) is it pretty (subjective, but very few think it's prettier than the previous gen M2 let alone a 1M - Harris owns a 1M, if the new M2 is so far better, why wouldn't he swop out!)
2) is it good value for money - this is a far bigger sticking point. For the same money as this car you could have a pretty great fun daily like a 7.5GTI + mods + maintaining money *AND* a dedicated fully done up track car, or a well sorted Cayman S of the older 6cyl variety + a maintaining fund + some small mods.

Again, is the M2 good - absolutely unquestionably it's a massively capable toy (and the M3/4/5 as well!) But the issue is that their supposed target markets are tiny:

1) People who simply must have a seriously fast car in all environments at all times (who are these folks?) and can only afford ~R2mish on that single vehicle
2) People who need 4 seats, speed, handling a maintainence plan and only have space for 1 car for ~R2mish.

Sure, in EU and big american cities there are some folks in cat2 above, but who on earth is cat1? So realistically the market for these cars is tiny at their prices.
 

whiteunderarm

Well-known member
I think stuff like this misses the point, almost completely. Is the new M2 a great car. Nobody in their right mind questions that. The question is twofold
1) is it pretty (subjective, but very few think it's prettier than the previous gen M2 let alone a 1M - Harris owns a 1M, if the new M2 is so far better, why wouldn't he swop out!)
2) is it good value for money - this is a far bigger sticking point. For the same money as this car you could have a pretty great fun daily like a 7.5GTI + mods + maintaining money *AND* a dedicated fully done up track car, or a well sorted Cayman S of the older 6cyl variety + a maintaining fund + some small mods.

Again, is the M2 good - absolutely unquestionably it's a massively capable toy (and the M3/4/5 as well!) But the issue is that their supposed target markets are tiny:

1) People who simply must have a seriously fast car in all environments at all times (who are these folks?) and can only afford ~R2mish on that single vehicle
2) People who need 4 seats, speed, handling a maintainence plan and only have space for 1 car for ~R2mish.

Sure, in EU and big american cities there are some folks in cat2 above, but who on earth is cat1? So realistically the market for these cars is tiny at their prices.

I agree with you on most of everything you’ve said, I specifically fall into the second category. Where I don’t agree is on the tiny market….BMW worldwide had record sales in 2024 specifically in their performance car segments….there is clearly a very huge market who demand these types of vehicles….
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
I think stuff like this misses the point, almost completely. Is the new M2 a great car. Nobody in their right mind questions that. The question is twofold
1) is it pretty (subjective, but very few think it's prettier than the previous gen M2 let alone a 1M - Harris owns a 1M, if the new M2 is so far better, why wouldn't he swop out!)
2) is it good value for money - this is a far bigger sticking point. For the same money as this car you could have a pretty great fun daily like a 7.5GTI + mods + maintaining money *AND* a dedicated fully done up track car, or a well sorted Cayman S of the older 6cyl variety + a maintaining fund + some small mods.

Again, is the M2 good - absolutely unquestionably it's a massively capable toy (and the M3/4/5 as well!) But the issue is that their supposed target markets are tiny:

1) People who simply must have a seriously fast car in all environments at all times (who are these folks?) and can only afford ~R2mish on that single vehicle
2) People who need 4 seats, speed, handling a maintainence plan and only have space for 1 car for ~R2mish.

Sure, in EU and big american cities there are some folks in cat2 above, but who on earth is cat1? So realistically the market for these cars is tiny at their prices.

This is a consequence of following advice for other markets to some degree. These are also cars designed to accomplish that task and like you say they are really good. Do you do that if you have space for 4/6/8/10 cars?

That being said, I have come to realise that plenty of guys in SA do have this requirement by virtue of the number of these R1.5-2M cars I see parked under car ports at flats/'executive apartments' in JHB.

The last time I was in the BMW shuttle, we went through a section of waterfall to drop someone off. I would 'kindly' describe this as 'executive-squatter-camp meets industrial mini-unit'. Town houses built on top of one another to a visibly poor standard and using corrugated iron finishes (definitely going to stand the test of time :ROFLMAO:) as cladding. Also no visitors parking in sight. I don't know what this trend is actually called but it seems that they are keen on losing money on both houses and cars. What is even stranger to me is that if they spent an extra million (which they obviously have) on the house instead of the car, they would have been able to live in a SUBSTANTIALLY better part of waterfall (or anywhere in JHB really).

But I digress

No taste or eyesight was involved in the home purchase so it makes sense that the same would apply to the car. Definitely have to have money to be there though. There is no room to do anything except park your 2 (small) cars there and maybe a short commuter car in front of each unit. In this case they would each have to choose something that 'does everything'. I would argue that the G87 is still not that car - it would be the G80/2.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
I agree with you on most of everything you’ve said, I specifically fall into the second category. Where I don’t agree is on the tiny market….BMW worldwide had record sales in 2024 specifically in their performance car segments….there is clearly a very huge market who demand these types of vehicles….

The overall market has not increased. It has probably been flat to declining. BMW and Porsche have eaten everyone's breakfast in the 'value proposition' vacuum. RS and AMG sales were nonexistent by comparison due to this and overall IIRC had double digit declines. The pie just changed allocations. It didn't grow.
 

whiteunderarm

Well-known member
The overall market has not increased. It has probably been flat to declining. BMW and Porsche have eaten everyone's breakfast in the 'value proposition' vacuum. RS and AMG sales were nonexistent by comparison due to this and overall IIRC had double digit declines. The pie just changed allocations. It didn't grow.
Spot on, but if these new BMW’s didn’t fulfill that exact purpose & need of having a “one car does all” then people wouldn’t be buying them….the market is there…I considered having a second car as a runner…I specifically looked at the new Ford Ranger Raptor….but I know myself…I’d reach for the BMW keys more often than I’d like to admit & for that reason I realized there was no value in me having more than one car…perhaps in future if I’m able to, I’d have something exotic that I can justifiably keep the mileage low & restrain myself to keep it it to a weekend toy…but for now I’m in the 1 car needs to do everything group….
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
Spot on, but if these new BMW’s didn’t fulfill that exact purpose & need of having a “one car does all” then people wouldn’t be buying them….the market is there…I considered having a second car as a runner…I specifically looked at the new Ford Ranger Raptor….but I know myself…I’d reach for the BMW keys more often than I’d like to admit & for that reason I realized there was no value in me having more than one car…perhaps in future if I’m able to, I’d have something exotic that I can justifiably keep the mileage low & restrain myself to keep it it to a weekend toy…but for now I’m in the 1 car needs to do everything group….

My requirement more falls into the first category without the need for a single car. Whatever the cars are, they can't be slow or uninteresting.

I would say that the 1-car-for-everything equation is best handled by BMW, but it won't give you the experiences that (to go to that other discussion) a purpose-built car will give you... whether it is faster or not. BMW does a better job than AMG or RS does at 'feeling like a track car' without actually being one or 'feeling like a sportscar' without actually being one either. The fact that my M5 creates the same feeling in a giant four-door lounge is testament to how that DNA does definitely work (and it is why we are all loyally here after all these years LOL)

I also think in reality the 'weekend cars' get used alot more often than people who don't have them think. You get the odd guy pickling them but unless it is a Ferrari or limited edition something, generally you drive what you feel like (or in my case, the car which my wife has not parked in front of :ROFLMAO:). Mileage or costs are not top of mind. I actually didn't drive my Alfa much last year and it feels like a waste to now change oil after doing only a couple of thousand kms... will be using it more in the next 12 months. I think many people who have these are also not bound by regular commute times and/or conditions. I am also in that category. I am always surprised at what traffic is on the odd occasions I have to be at a client or partner meeting early morning or in the afternoon :ROFLMAO:. That being said even earlier in life with my S2000 and STI etc, they were still used even in traffic and normal work commuting. I have posted quite a few pics of the school run with loads of Ms, RSes, i8s, a Gallardo Spyder which is a regular, 458, 488, McLaren 720S, GT-R, host of Type Rs... literally collecting kids in the afternoon or dropping them off. Not everyone who has these pickles them or is afraid to use them either.
 

Quick///M

Well-known member
I agree with you on most of everything you’ve said, I specifically fall into the second category. Where I don’t agree is on the tiny market….BMW worldwide had record sales in 2024 specifically in their performance car segments….there is clearly a very huge market who demand these types of vehicles….
I second this, The Market for ///Ms is not tiny in any way but I cannot quantify the actual size and that relates weather its as big as it was 10 to 20 years ago, a troll on Instagram will quickly show you between the 3 major mod houses what is actually happening, now this only highlights specific part of M scene which are the guys that want to get into a G8X and on top of that still throw down money to make it even faster, we not even talking about those that keep them stock (Well that is me). This is not limited to just South Africa, but these cars are have gained a huge following globally, there are various M Festivals across the globe, my son likes to watch these on youtube I was shocked at one of them were there were a boat load of M cars one after the other, most of them had cometic mods done already!!! Clearly this is not a tiny segment ??? In addition to that the amount of accessories that various companies offer for these cars is in insane maybe I should change my line of businesses and get in on the action, cause clearly there is not a lot of options here in SA
 
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TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
I second this, The Market for ///Ms is not tiny in any way but I cannot quantify the actual size and that relates weather its as big as it was 10 to 20 years ago, a troll on Instagram will quickly show you between the 3 major mod houses what is actually happening, now this only highlights specific part of M scene which are the guys that want to get into a G8X and on top of that still throw down money to make it even faster, we not even talking about those that keep them stock (Well that is me). This is not limited to just South Africa, but these cars are have gained a huge following globally, there are various M Festivals across the globe, my son likes to watch these on youtube I was shocked at one of them were there were a boat load of M cars one after the other, most of them had cometic mods done already!!! Clearly this is not a tiny segment ??? In addition to that the amount of accessories that various companies offer for these cars is in insane maybe I should change my line of businesses and get in on the action, cause clearly there is not a lot of options here in SA

You're speaking as though this is something new. It isn't new. What is new is that M as a whole is now occupying a price bracket clearly above what it used to and across every tier.

IMHO in terms of the following and enthusiast space, it has always been this big if not bigger. Certainly 10 years ago. Making them faster has also been happening since time immemorial. 20 years back it was Old Dutch Racing in KZN, Sav & RGM up here and various others around the country playing with NOS, superchargers and turbos. Chiplogic doing things the old fashioned way and soldering/desoldering actual chips... trying to get the unichip not to lose the adjustments on it... rats nests of wires etc. Tuner wars were not only happening 5 or 10 or 15 years ago. Even in my Dad's days there were 'informal' tuner wars.

It is just that there is more media around what is happening now as opposed to reading a heavily dumbed down article in a magazine or overly technical forum post somewhere. Bear in mind that BMW's total M production numbers are tiny relative to the car buying population. You are also receiving and consuming a lot of curated media fed to you because of your interests and of events with a high concentration of these relatively (in the grand scheme of all cars) rare things. That is the disaster of social media with all aspects of life - it makes extraordinary things seem ordinary and commonplace. Then as a result, everyone feels either it is bigger than it really is or they are worse off than they really are :ROFLMAO:. We in SA are one of the largest markets for M cars globally and we already don't see a huge amount in 'daily life'... until the time comes to meet for an event or club thing.

There have been BMW club sport series, race series, various events and even official recognition of clubs for decades. Love of BMW and M is not something new. There is no 'huge following gained'. It is formalising and publicising what already existed IMHO. New people are entering and because it is new for them, it must be new for everyone. BMWs have always been the best at this kind of thing (occasionally challenged by others) but there is a reason the M3 has been the benchmark since I was old enough to read until now.

That isn't to say (as most who have made the switch have found) that the 911 is not the thing M3/4 owners think they have (regardless of what articles or spec sheets say) but that is another matter entirely. You must also understand though, that as much as this segment is a big segment, if you don't have those constraints (and this is a much smaller market), the value prop largely collapses. There is a big segment of those people and as they age-through life become targets for supercars or 911s or Caymans (Even Z4s). BMW unfortunately has no credible answer to this that makes sense (the M8 is not it). An i8 with a B58/S58 in it would have cleaned house even in the higher tiers. Alas we can dream.

I think where @TBP88 's comments stem from is the fact that these are not cheap cars anymore (not by any metric) and the point is that (I guess in our old minds) if you can spend R1.5M on a car you probably have a R4.5M+ house at least and are earning a decent amount of money hence are unlikely to have the constraints that would make a G87 the car to pick. This was not the case with cars, say, pre 2015 where it was an 'average guy' that would be able to realistically buy an entry level M or used higher tier one. A reasonably new Porsche (obviously not the same model year, but still with driveplan) likewise would have been out of the question for someone shopping around there, whereas today when you're talking R1.5M it absolutely isn't.

On another note, please don't open more accessory or tuning shops in SA. There are more than enough already :ROFLMAO: where are you looking that there are not a lot of options let alone at the dealer themselves selling M Performance things?
 

Quick///M

Well-known member
Spot on, but if these new BMW’s didn’t fulfill that exact purpose & need of having a “one car does all” then people wouldn’t be buying them….the market is there…I considered having a second car as a runner…I specifically looked at the new Ford Ranger Raptor….but I know myself…I’d reach for the BMW keys more often than I’d like to admit & for that reason I realized there was no value in me having more than one car…perhaps in future if I’m able to, I’d have something exotic that I can justifiably keep the mileage low & restrain myself to keep it it to a weekend toy…but for now I’m in the 1 car needs to do everything group….
Consider an electric... I was in the same boat, when I heard the cost of fueling a Raptor from my friend I ran for the hills🤣We use the electric for all the family stuff although you're set because the G80 can do it all, I know because I experienced similar in my M340i of course it was the baby version of your M3.
 

Nishcat_M140i

///Member
Consider an electric... I was in the same boat, when I heard the cost of fueling a Raptor from my friend I ran for the hills🤣We use the electric for all the family stuff although you're set because the G80 can do it all, I know because I experienced similar in my M340i of course it was the baby version of your M3.
While we on the topic of the Raptor, my dad got one as a company car. The most he’s ever gotten out of a full tank on that car was about 350kms or so. It’s that crazy on fuel 😂😂.

But then again, this is a 292kw V6 ecoboost we are talking about, so it’s no surprise about the fuel consumption on them.

Despite the heavy fuel consumption, it’s still not the most heaviest car on fuel we’ve witnessed. He told me his 2012 4.0 fortuner back then was way more heavier than the raptor.
 

whiteunderarm

Well-known member
Consider an electric... I was in the same boat, when I heard the cost of fueling a Raptor from my friend I ran for the hills🤣We use the electric for all the family stuff although you're set because the G80 can do it all, I know because I experienced similar in my M340i of course it was the baby version of your M3o

Consider an electric... I was in the same boat, when I heard the cost of fueling a Raptor from my friend I ran for the hills🤣We use the electric for all the family stuff although you're set because the G80 can do it all, I know because I experienced similar in my M340i of course it was the baby version of your M3.
Well that was the main reason I was put off 🤣 Oddly I have been looking at some electrics, specifically the new BYD Shark….saw a white one in person in Umhlanga with aftermarket wheels on it & it looked the part…something to consider!
 
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