Another frikken Turbo question.

[zaleonardz]

So the manifold on the E60 is leaking ever so slightly, cant detect at idle, but balls to the wall and you can hear her for sure.

Now I traced the noise to the flange that bolts onto the turbo, and a quick consultation to my local BMW encyclopedia says that it is a common fault.

Quite a big job to fix, exhaust out, turbo out, manifold out, manifold off to engineering.

However, this means, turbo on the floor smiling at me, so I figure, I have 220 on it, shall we replace the bearings.

I phone around, speak to some guys that I know, and Turbo Fix pops up as a reputable crowd.

Dude gives me the following advice.

In his view, if there is nothing wrong with it, leave it the hell alone.

He recons if service intervals are maintained on the vehicle(which they are, anally) that turbo is good for 300k if not more, and because of that, I really should not do anything.

He said to me worst case scenario is a rebuild of about 7k, but said I am wasting my money.

So now in my viewpoint, bearings are a perishable item, meaning that they are a maint. item, but advice has been given not to complicate matters.

Interesting topic is it not.

What you folks say.

 

[SP33DYV]

In my field of work we have the following saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" But my field of work does not usually included mechanical parts that move...:evilish:

 

[netercol]

controversial questions for sure.. by strange co-incidence i have been through this exact same exercise a month ago..

your e60 has the same stainless steel manifold as the 150kw 330d's have.. and seems they tend to crack even just under normal use, nevermind remapped. it is kinda a give-away that BMW has moved back to cast manifolds on the newer 3l diesel turbo's..
removed mine and had it tig welded all around each runner and the turbo flange, plus the few cracks elsewhere.. then had it annealed, hopefully it will last a while.. the only lasting solution seems to be using the previous models cast manifold, or using a custom cast manifold, like these.. (found out it was custom made)

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=29350

as for the turbo, i put a fresh set of bearings in, the last set i put in had 100k on them.. i also see it as a maintenence item.. but a lot of people will disagree with this ofc..
the reason garrett themselfs do not support rebuilding vnt turbo's is because of the very precise setting of the vnt vanes stroke, and total movement.. this gets set in factory using a flow bench i am told..

i feel however if the assembly has not touched sides (shaft, exhaust and compressor in perfect condition) and the vnt mechanism, stroke and stop settings are not disturbed, that the bearings can be replaced with no harm done..

 

[zaleonardz]

How badly do you need to strip the turbo to get to the bearings..

Also, apart from lack of power, any other concern wrt the leaking.

Is this a park it off until its fixed properly, or can i drive the car and do it next weekend when I have time ?

 

[Raybimmer]

difficult one , but If it is done now and the work guaranteed then you are good for say 200k km , which is say 5 or 6 yeasrs away , also if you sell in a year or so the turbo was reconned at x km so buyer should not panic .

 

[netercol]

strange enough i could not really see a difference in performance.. i just could not take the soot under the bonnet anymore.. guess its drivable as long as you dont push it too hard..

the turbo has to be stripped to the bone to replace bearing... i was hesitant to do a diy writeup about it (because its so contraversial) but ill put one together tonight.. even if its just for curiosity

 

[Hellas]

If you can plug the pipes to prevent dust from getting in, you can drive WITHOUT the turbo all together... Don't ask me how I know...

 

[netercol]

If you can plug the pipes to prevent dust from getting in, you can drive WITHOUT the turbo all together... Don't ask me how I know...

:roflol:

 

[Spy007]

Having seen the inside of the turbo. Will post pics tom on my other thread Garett has dropped the prices of the turbo's because of the hassel of the fix and those settings having to be EXACT.


As they told me at Garett today. Once opened airline here hairline there all adds up to something possible going wrong.

Speak to Linda or Lee at garett and compare the price of a new turbo and then make the educated decision.

as For recond Turbo and Seller.

I was told my turbo that was replaced 9000km ago was NEw. Turned out to be a re conned. Only 6 month warentee as apose to a 1 year if it is new.
The dealers BMW mechanic said NO PROBLEM we CAN fix it For R7000.

Nice But I just got A NEW one for R8265.

R1250 difference. No brainer.

Z i will come past next day or so and bring my Old turbo with so you can have a look at it and c where what is. If you want let me know.

 

[racing snake]

a tough question in deed, turbo life is also largely dependent on how it has been used, many folk do not warm up or cool down the turbo and simply turn the ignition off, this damages the turbo due to a lack of oil from the motor.

i would suggest you take the turbo in and get it inspected at least before refitting it to the vehicle. get this done by a reputable company.

another suggestion to prevent future manifold leakage is to "brace" the turbo by manufacturing a strong plate from the turbo to a nice strong mounting point on the motor, this helps prevent the turbo from "wobbling" around causing "metal fatigue" on the manifold.

hope you get it sorted out quickly and have no problems in the future.

 

[zaleonardz]

I recon the following, that I am going to leave it alone.

My viewpoint on engineering is this, it is mostly done in jigs/machine tools that has been built to within the micron, tested and verified....

Im prob going to spend 2 or 3k on a recon just for the sake of recon, its going to perhaps be put back together anything from 20% to 80% the way that it should be, but never like original.

That coupled with the fact that components wear in unisan, meaning inner and outter metal surfaces of the turbo itself kind of marry on first start up, means that its never going to be the same again. Perhaps not bearings, but if you need to strip it right down, who is to say that it will be returned back to stock.

You know, I recon im going to skip all of this, and just let the turbo go naturally, when it wants too, if it wants too. The replacement costs are almost the same as the rebuild, so I'd rather have a precision engineered one then one put together by a guy that has a hangover and is pissed off at his kitten for some unkown reason....

"If it aint broke, dont fix it"

 

[james]

IMHO, if the turbo is fine and you know you have cared for it properly, I do not see any reason to open it. Even if mileage is on 220k. Your concern on bearing wear is valid. So basically a catch 22, ZL. Dependant on your cashflow, you will have to decide. Preventative maintenance is good, but my belief stands.

 

[zaleonardz]

See,

I would rather replace then repair (or service in this case).

 

[P1000]

Okay, so another curve ball: Mine is coming up on 290kkm, so does this then mean I should replace it, since it should last about 300kkm? Right?

Leonard, please find out a price for me on a GT2556V (if you can get dealer discount)...

 

[Bossman]

I had the turbo relaced on my E39 530d at 221000km, some coincedince that your milaege are almost the same, see this thread at what happened.
Metal fatige played a role, the turbine blades disintegrated!
The car still boosted but made a howling noise.

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=9475

 

[msm]

Nice But I just got A NEW one for R8265.

@Leonard: If you can get a new turbo at similar prices to the above, then go that route, and flog the old turbo for R4k-R5k on Gum. IMO, a decent used turbo at R4k-R5k is still a reasonable price that someone would pay as it is cheaper than a rebuild. That way, you spend a delta of around R3k-R4k only and have a brand new turbo.

 

[zaleonardz]

Very very interesting....

Hmmmm....

I think i shall price a turbo tomorrow just for the hell of it...

Thank god for the lift....

 

[netercol]

just in case you feel like joining the dark side.. :rollsmile:

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=30622

 

[Philip Foglar]

Very interesting discussion!

In one way I would say, leave it alone rather than pulling it apart - although, bearings are the weak point of any turbo, so logically it makes sense that a turbo can last forever provided that it is also "serviced" and has these wear items replaced from time to time. But, if the complete new unit is decently "affordable", it does make better sense, and since the existing turbo is still technically fine, could sell it gumtree as said.

Don't have a turbo diesel BMW, but am extremely careful and particular with the Isuzu KB300LX - gentle when cold and allow it to idle before shutting down even though it does pump oil through the turbo after the engine has been turned off. But main thing that I always do is give the engine a cool-off run as I get closer to where I am going - so lots of off throttle in gear as possible...

 

[zaleonardz]

The dark side

(Insane techno beat in head)