The General's F13 M6 Coupe

[General.Massacre]

Feel your pain bud, with relocation etc, this is probably the last place you want to spend money, especially after being guaranteed the motor was build up properly a few kilometres ago.

Glad the vehicle is in good hands now. All the best, bud. Happy new year too.


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Yo Vince, thanks my man, yea that confidence of the motor went tits up.
However, that being said, I've always been a bit apprehensive about the state of the bearings since seeing the glitter in the oil on the first oil change. But now we understand why.
It is what it is, and we move forward hey 😃

 

[70007]

Eish, bad luck and hope all is sorted soon. And again, welcome here, you will enjoy it here for sure! Awesome roads and plenty routes to choose from!


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[tamgoem]

Why not just buy a cheap sub 50k runaround to avoid the issue that is Uber in the western cape?

Anyway you seem to be having the full M/// ownership experience, my condolences.

 

[General.Massacre]

Why not just buy a cheap sub 50k runaround to avoid the issue that is Uber in the western cape?

Anyway you seem to be having the full M/// ownership experience, my condolences.

Sure let me go drop 50k with a looming large repair bill in the wings. lol. No.

from where i stay, to work, Uber is not super expensive, im spending slightly more than i would on fuel for the M6, the problem is, for me, the independence factor, as much as i can go anywhere with uber, its just better to have your own vehicle naturally.

I am considering another motorbike, but will see come Feb what happens with that.

 

[Greenz]

Man this sucks!I hope everything works out.

On a positive note,welcome to cape town.

 

[Gordvisr]

Have you checked with Agents on a new crank, not to long ago a new one at agents was R22k. sorry to see this. From my experience i saw, after a rebuilt tend to find these type of problems, why i don't know, but i think mostly not all care were taken in the rebuilt and maybe shortcuts to save on costs. The parts list alone, in November at agents to rebuilt an S63( crank pistons rods etc ) were a tad above a 100K. ( What was very scary the guy who bought the parts told me it was for the S64 motor and told me it is not the same as in the X5///M and he is supposed to be a BMW specialist ). Oh and sorry about your mishap, i guess it could have been worsei f not picked up )

 

[TurboLlew]

Have you checked with Agents on a new crank, not to long ago a new one at agents was R22k. sorry to see this. From my experience i saw, after a rebuilt tend to find these type of problems, why i don't know, but i think mostly not all care were taken in the rebuilt and maybe shortcuts to save on costs. The parts list alone, in November at agents to rebuilt an S63( crank pistons rods etc ) were a tad above a 100K. ( What was very scary the guy who bought the parts told me it was for the S64 motor and told me it is not the same as in the X5///M and he is supposed to be a BMW specialist ). Oh and sorry about your mishap, i guess it could have been worsei f not picked up )

The quality of engine building is an issue. Alot of guys think they know what they are doing... and the costs involved no doubt lead people to cheaper options or short cut options. There are a number of cars that pop up on facebook marketplace etc which have been extensively rebuilt (according to the ad) and yet are advertised for not a lot more than it would cost to rebuild the motor 'the right way'.

Alot of these BMW specialists are 'self proclaimed' experts or master techs. They know less than I do when probed. Before I bought my F10 M5 way back when, I had almost bought an E60 from a Subaru dealer in Centurion. When the dealership decided (in their wisdom) to sort out issues using a third party, they used some guy called 'no problem auto' who 'knew these cars'... needless to say I ended up with the F10.

We unfortunately need to do due diligence into who the builder was and also what the client asked to have done when buying these. I do think Budler are going to do a great job on this. Holding thumbs for no more issues.

 

[General.Massacre]

Have you checked with Agents on a new crank, not to long ago a new one at agents was R22k. sorry to see this. From my experience i saw, after a rebuilt tend to find these type of problems, why i don't know, but i think mostly not all care were taken in the rebuilt and maybe shortcuts to save on costs. The parts list alone, in November at agents to rebuilt an S63( crank pistons rods etc ) were a tad above a 100K. ( What was very scary the guy who bought the parts told me it was for the S64 motor and told me it is not the same as in the X5///M and he is supposed to be a BMW specialist ). Oh and sorry about your mishap, i guess it could have been worsei f not picked up )

Hey bud.
Yea i checked with Agents, JSN Bryanston, with my Discount is R49 147 for the crank new.
So no doubt the rebuild parts from the agents would be far more than 100k now for sure.

 

[General.Massacre]

The quality of engine building is an issue. Alot of guys think they know what they are doing... and the costs involved no doubt lead people to cheaper options or short cut options. There are a number of cars that pop up on facebook marketplace etc which have been extensively rebuilt (according to the ad) and yet are advertised for not a lot more than it would cost to rebuild the motor 'the right way'.

Alot of these BMW specialists are 'self proclaimed' experts or master techs. They know less than I do when probed. Before I bought my F10 M5 way back when, I had almost bought an E60 from a Subaru dealer in Centurion. When the dealership decided (in their wisdom) to sort out issues using a third party, they used some guy called 'no problem auto' who 'knew these cars'... needless to say I ended up with the F10.

We unfortunately need to do due diligence into who the builder was and also what the client asked to have done when buying these. I do think Budler are going to do a great job on this. Holding thumbs for no more issues.

Hi Llew,

Thanks, yea as experience shows, its needed to do the research.
In my opinion, the only places i really would trust with a big rebuild like this would be Budler or TuneTech, during the start of the last year, i did call both companies to find out what a bearing job on the M6 would be just in case (Clearly you will see the bearings have been worrying me for some time).
TuneTech gave me a Documented quote of R65k and some change. (Did not include Main Bearings)
Budler gave me a telephonic quote of R38k to do the rod bearings.

I believe they both would of done a great job, i know Shaun Singh does excellent work on the M cars, and Boetie Budler has a great name in the industry also. so as i said, i believe my car is in the right place. Boetie immediately told me bearings are a problem when he dropped the lower sump last year, even after i told him it might be residual material from the last rebuild, he said no way, not after 10000km, testament to the mans experience and knowledge i guess.

Although im not doing a full rebuild, they will still remove the heads to inspect the bores etc, and due to this, i have a feeling that once they assemble everything and re-time the motor etc, i believe it will (Should), correct the Camshaft installation error that the Adaptations delete created, i am holding thumbs that this will be the case.

Thanks for the good words and advice shared previously Llew.

 

[NBN]

Or alternatively, now that you have moved to the "Mountains" you can always find a way to let car land on its the roof like a lot of M cars on that side of the country

Jokes aside, i wish you all the best with the rebuild and congrats on the new job and new place of residence.

 

[Gordvisr]

Hey bud.
Yea i checked with Agents, JSN Bryanston, with my Discount is R49 147 for the crank new.
So no doubt the rebuild parts from the agents would be far more than 100k now for sure.

try vereeniging branch.

 

[Veedub]

Inspect the bore for any scoring...if there is, then it's an even bigger problem (should be an alusil block). That should then guide you on how much effort (i.e. money) to expend on the rest of the motor (i.e. rebuild for keeping or rebuild to offload at WBC).

If you haven't already watched this, then it gives great info on these motors:

 

[General.Massacre]

Inspect the bore for any scoring...if there is, then it's an even bigger problem (should be an alusil block). That should then guide you on how much effort (i.e. money) to expend on the rest of the motor (i.e. rebuild for keeping or rebuild to offload at WBC).

If you haven't already watched this, then it gives great info on these motors:

Yea let's not tempt fate 🤣
I have a feeling the bores will be fine. And the car never smoked at all since ownership. Never used oil either between oil changes. So I feel positive on this aspect at least.

 

[individj]

sorry about this man ... but I feel that you will have a positive outcome mate. atleast you live in Cape Town now ... thats huge .... and everything is so close to you in century ...you can walk or use an electric thing to go everywhere.

 

[General.Massacre]

sorry about this man ... but I feel that you will have a positive outcome mate. atleast you live in Cape Town now ... thats huge .... and everything is so close to you in century ...you can walk or use an electric thing to go everywhere.

Thanks man, yea i will keep everyone up to date for sure.

As far as Century City goes, yea i walk to gym, and to the shops i need to etc, quite nice and a change from the JHB lifestyle where its not the safest to just go for a walk, and everything is so clean. lol.

But yea, getting used to things still, and finding my feet.

 

[AshG108]

I do not own an ///M and will want to in future, but this thread has I have subscribed to and learnt a lot from. Sorry about the kak Gen, you have given this car much love but as you say, it is what it is...just got to look forward now.

All the best in Cape Town and hopefully brighter days ahead to give you some consolation in the days to come.

 

[Bugger]

Thanks man, yea i will keep everyone up to date for sure.

As far as Century City goes, yea i walk to gym, and to the shops i need to etc, quite nice and a change from the JHB lifestyle where its not the safest to just go for a walk, and everything is so clean. lol.

But yea, getting used to things still, and finding my feet.

That's cos you lived in Fourways.... Boet. 😁

 

[General.Massacre]

Hi all. Another update.

The motor was removed last Friday, and they were going to begin stripping the engine completely on the Saturday and would contact me with findings. So I've left them, and let them work uncovered.

I received a call today from Budler.

Here are the findings:

The Crank was sent off to engineering. And was successfully repaired and polished and even more so, still in spec to run standard sized bearings. So that us a saving grace and I do not need a new crank thankfully.

The oil pump when stripped showed signs of wear.


I was told the Oil Pump would still operate, however they highly recommended replacing it, so, I accepted it, rather safe than sorry.
The reasoning here, Boetie Budler told me that there is a chance that the initial error I got for the 164041: Exhaust Camshaft Installation Faulty. Could have arisen due to a slightly lower than normal oil pressure, not near enough to trigger a fault or error, but enough to not optimally actuate the vanos/camshaft, which only popped up when I cleared adaptations. His explanation does make sense. So I'm crossing fingers this may be the case.

I don't know much about the oil pump internals, and what constitutes as wear, whether extreme or light.
So maybe someone in the know can lend some thoughts after seeing the images.

Next, there is NO damage or wear on anything above the crankshaft.

The conrods are not damaged.

The pistons are clean and not damaged, no signs of detonation, or contact of any kind, also the piston skirts were clean of any scratches or wear.
The bores are clean and looked new
The heads were clean all over.
I was told the block itself is actually in incredible condition.

So apart from the Oil Pump and bearings, the motor is in great condition. And given the all clear to continue.

The cost... well that's hefty as shit, but, it's a necessity, and is required, it's a bitter pill to swallow, however, I'd rather have this now, than the alternative where I could of been driving to Cape Town in December, or in the course if the year have the engine seize completely. So this is undeniably a silver lining I will take...

The time needed is 3 to 4 weeks for the rebuild, thats a long time you all thinking, and I agree. But the reason is due to Boetie and Shaun (head mechanic), only working on the after hours and weekends, and they do this work themselves personally due to the type of csr, and the complexity of the work. No other shop staff. Which I like, and will gladly take the time.

So I have given the final go ahead, and will get things started. So now it's just the waiting game. And hoping for end of Feb.

So will keep you all update as things progress.

 

[Peter@AEW]

How is it that the bearings took such heavy wear?
Was he able to explain possible reasons?

The oil pump does look a little worse for wear but not so much as to cause bearing wear?

 

[TurboLlew]

3-4 weeks is record time compared to what you face from other places on ordinary cars. I have personal stories on this...

Unfortunately there is this disease with workshops that see any car and assume its the same... and the tropes on the groups of M motors not being special and being just the same as N55/N63 etc... give them confidence. I shared this story and thread with someone building an F10 at one of these places that has taken 8 months so far... It is now apparently going to MPH who has actually done a few.

The money involved seems high but you're probably good to go for another 100000+ after this. It isn't THAT bad if you consider that you cannot build eg: a Subaru 400-500kw capable motor for R150K... Certainly not a V8TT/V12TT merc motor - Those very fast RS3s & TTs have eye-watering amounts of money poured into them if you talk to one of the owners (2-3x your build cost and multiple times when they break) - you will likely not be able to build a Lamborghini motor south of R700K (one of the club guys had the misfortune of having a V10 go at 75000km... if the E60 owners think BMW did something wrong for their V10s to last 'only' 100000km before needing maintenance then they should look at the 'next' up exotic V10 costs LOL)

It's bad in absolute terms - but not that bad...

@Peter@AEW My laymans guess is they also used the incorrect sized/colour coded bearings on that crank when rebuilding (over and above the various other strange things they did during assembly) - either because they were used to N-series colour references or they just didn't know. I guess is the builder would come with different stories.