The General's F13 M6 Coupe

[General.Massacre]

How is it that the bearings took such heavy wear?
Was he able to explain possible reasons?

The oil pump does look a little worse for wear but not so much as to cause bearing wear?

Hi @Peter@AEW i was astounded at the amount of wear for the apparent mileage the motor supposedly done in the time.
Budler said its highly possible that the crank was initially just refitted without engineering done as they most probably looked at it and said its fine, thus fitting it with new bearings, and as Llew said, possible they fitted incorrect bearing colours/sizes, coupled with that and the possible bad crank to start with, would have eaten the bearings. but no matter what is said, this is all speculation at best.

3-4 weeks is record time compared to what you face from other places on ordinary cars. I have personal stories on this...

Unfortunately there is this disease with workshops that see any car and assume its the same... and the tropes on the groups of M motors not being special and being just the same as N55/N63 etc... give them confidence. I shared this story and thread with someone building an F10 at one of these places that has taken 8 months so far... It is now apparently going to MPH who has actually done a few.

The money involved seems high but you're probably good to go for another 100000+ after this. It isn't THAT bad if you consider that you cannot build eg: a Subaru 400-500kw capable motor for R150K... Certainly not a V8TT/V12TT merc motor - Those very fast RS3s & TTs have eye-watering amounts of money poured into them if you talk to one of the owners (2-3x your build cost and multiple times when they break) - you will likely not be able to build a Lamborghini motor south of R700K (one of the club guys had the misfortune of having a V10 go at 75000km... if the E60 owners think BMW did something wrong for their V10s to last 'only' 100000km before needing maintenance then they should look at the 'next' up exotic V10 costs LOL)

It's bad in absolute terms - but not that bad...

@Peter@AEW My laymans guess is they also used the incorrect sized/colour coded bearings on that crank when rebuilding (over and above the various other strange things they did during assembly) - either because they were used to N-series colour references or they just didn't know. I guess is the builder would come with different stories.

8 months so far? WTF, mind sharing which builder its been at for this time frame? i mean granted im no expert at all, it would probably take me far longer to try and build this engine anyways, but id assume (i mean, hope), that a workshop that accepts a car like the M5, M6 or similar would be confident in their work doing it correctly. if not, why not just state this is not something you're comfortable with, and recommend others, i would respect a shop like that so much more.

I am confident int he fact that Budler, as i stated previously, is the best place the car can be, judging by their experience and exposure to the brand and platform. so my spirits are high in this regard.

I feel sorry for that gent with the Lamborghini that had his motor let go, hoping he has warranty, unlike me.

 

[tamgoem]

Fairly positive outcome then.

 

[Peter@AEW]

In your shoes I would ask that crank out of roundness is confirmed and I would also get everything balanced. ( I think BMW specifies 0.002)
V8 engines are inherently unbalanced as soon as parts are changed such as rods pistons etc.

Just my 2c

 

[TurboLlew]

Hi @Peter@AEW i was astounded at the amount of wear for the apparent mileage the motor supposedly done in the time.
Budler said its highly possible that the crank was initially just refitted without engineering done as they most probably looked at it and said its fine, thus fitting it with new bearings, and as Llew said, possible they fitted incorrect bearing colours/sizes, coupled with that and the possible bad crank to start with, would have eaten the bearings. but no matter what is said, this is all speculation at best.


8 months so far? WTF, mind sharing which builder its been at for this time frame? i mean granted im no expert at all, it would probably take me far longer to try and build this engine anyways, but id assume (i mean, hope), that a workshop that accepts a car like the M5, M6 or similar would be confident in their work doing it correctly. if not, why not just state this is not something you're comfortable with, and recommend others, i would respect a shop like that so much more.

I am confident int he fact that Budler, as i stated previously, is the best place the car can be, judging by their experience and exposure to the brand and platform. so my spirits are high in this regard.

I feel sorry for that gent with the Lamborghini that had his motor let go, hoping he has warranty, unlike me.

I'll get the name of the shop - I only know that the person's name is Rodney LOL. Alot of nickel and diming here as well - the initial estimate was low but as they 'discover' new things (most likely that they can't use N63 parts ) the costs also get ever higher to the degree that if you were spending that kind of money you'd have gone to a Peter/Budler/TuneTech anyway. At this point I think he is just hoping all the parts are still there and not damaged after all this time sitting on shelves/in boxes.

There are plenty of guys that take on work they have no business taking on. You would hope that workshops would not accept cars they have no time or expertise for, but this happens even on older cars. There is another fanatic that has had an E30 being built for over a year now... I think the motor has now fired up but it's not otherwise assembled. This is not for lack of money or parts either.

Unfortunately Gallardos are LOOOOOONG out of warranty coverage of any kind 🫠

 

[General.Massacre]

I'll get the name of the shop - I only know that the person's name is Rodney LOL. Alot of nickel and diming here as well - the initial estimate was low but as they 'discover' new things (most likely that they can't use N63 parts ) the costs also get ever higher to the degree that if you were spending that kind of money you'd have gone to a Peter/Budler/TuneTech anyway. At this point I think he is just hoping all the parts are still there and not damaged after all this time sitting on shelves/in boxes.

There are plenty of guys that take on work they have no business taking on. You would hope that workshops would not accept cars they have no time or expertise for, but this happens even on older cars. There is another fanatic that has had an E30 being built for over a year now... I think the motor has now fired up but it's not otherwise assembled. This is not for lack of money or parts either.

Unfortunately Gallardos are LOOOOOONG out of warranty coverage of any kind 🫠

The only shop i know with a Rodney is SR Speedworx, but i believe Rodney has left the country, and Stan now runs the workshop, based in Knights, Germiston.
But SR Speedworx apparently knows their stuff on the M engines also. so not sure.

I agree with your comment on most workshops taking on cars they should have no business taking on, this happened countless times in my Opel days, which i was caught in too.

 

[TurboLlew]

The only shop i know with a Rodney is SR Speedworx, but i believe Rodney has left the country, and Stan now runs the workshop, based in Knights, Germiston.
But SR Speedworx apparently knows their stuff on the M engines also. so not sure.

I agree with your comment on most workshops taking on cars they should have no business taking on, this happened countless times in my Opel days, which i was caught in too.

Definitely not SR Speedworx - it's one of those I didn't recognize at all when I heard it. These guys are in Edenvale I think.

 

[General.Massacre]

Quick little update.

Got feedback that the assembly is now underway, with a shot of the block, with crank and Mains installed.
So it's now gaining traction which is great news.


Looking forward to the coming weeks.

 

[General.Massacre]

Hi all.

Some more progress from Budler, they seem to be making good progress.
It was discovered that 5 of the 8 rods had surface damage. This would of greatly attributed to the wear on the bearings as this would of causes bearing clearence issues and offset the sizing. how some of these marks happened, is anyones best guess.


I'm sure there is at least 1 or 2 people on this forum that knows Rapesh from RM Autotech... when you see this, please tell him, from the bottom of my heart, Justin Dunn says Rapesh is a POES, and shouldn't be working on cars. Its plain and simple. I mean it sincerely.

Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

On to better news, Budler sourced replacement Rods already, and has continued the build, Pistons and Rods are in:


And so is the new Oil Pump, looking clean and fresh with the upper sump already in place.



Appreciate everyone's interest so far in the build, it seems to be taking shape very well, and the more i get updates, and the more i see, its clear, again, that the car is getting built at the best possible place.
Budler and the team could have been sneaky and re-installed the rods as they found them, but that's not how they work, and i value the transparency and honesty from their team.

Thanks again, more to be supplied as its comes available.

 

[Spanky]

 

[Gordvisr]

Would agree with you that he is one, how can you install rods on an engine like this, looking like that. in fact any type of engine for that matter, where is the pride in "your" hand work/bussiness, building engines like this. Big up on the current rebuilt. looking good so far.

 

[Peter@AEW]

Justin were you able to establish crank out of roundness?

Also did you get the new assembly balanced given that you have new conrods ?

 

[TurboLlew]

Absolutely insane discoveries as you're going through this... so basically from outside (injectors where this journey of discovery started) to the depths of the motor, this was poorly and incompetently done. The only thing I can think is that they cobbled this together as cheaply as possible, specifically to sell it and let it be the next guy's problem (with the excuse that its an old tuned car if things went south).

There are so many cars (subarus especially) advertised with freshly built motors and advertised for not much more than a 'proper' build would have cost. I have noticed quite a few of the V10s as well claiming to be freshly built or to have the maintenance done. Doubt anyone other than the 'usual' suspects can be trusted and then only with calls to them to confirm it was actually done and not just a quote.

The only mentions prior are from a couple of users. One was last seen in 2016 who claims these guys are as good as tunetech... very unlikely based on this. The other was here yesterday but last posted years ago, and says its his mate. With the trajectory that these workshops end up taking, trading on a previously built good name and burning their clients over time, who knows how that panned out for him... maybe he can find out something LOL.

Although they are necro threads, perhaps go there and link this thread to their posts. This is more for some user in 5 or 10 years time when the current bunch of forumites is not active. At present, someone searching will be led to them as a Durban option. Rather let people see their actual capabilities/workmanship.

Reading these posts from the past, its important to remember this 'friends and family' situation people find themselves in is just an excuse to pass off bad work. There is a reason most people don't do business with friends and family OR keep it strictly business when dealing with them and it is this exact reason. How people actively pursue the opposite, I don't know... The same goes for other sympathy seeking manipulations creating a false sense of trust/closeness such as "my client didn't pay me" or "my child is sick" or "I am sick" etc. You may not even know the work is shit at the time.

Easy for clients to living in blissful ignorance that anything is even wrong. Its like a doctor with excellent bedside manner misdiagnosing and keeping you ill... but you keep going to him because you can't believe such a nice person is a quack. Alternatively they may equate their good experiences with basic work to competence in other areas: expecting their GP to also be an excellent heart surgeon... Either way, it's the same phenomenon that makes people believe they are 'friends' with salesmen, tuners that keep breaking their cars and selling them more parts and dreams of power etc. If your service provider (for anything) has become your BFF, #1 dialled person and has thousands of messages on whatsapp, remember that his BFF is really your wallet. Cut off the wallet, as the 'wrong' questions or use another service provider and see how quickly that situation evolves...

If we are being VERY charitable, there is still the possibility that the workshop was instructed by the prior owner to specifically pull the motor together to get it out the door and now his name is attached to the failure, since said owner decided to use the build as a selling point. That still doesn't excuse things like literally having the injectors inserted the wrong way round. Moot point right now, but it would be interesting to see what actually happened here.

 

[General.Massacre]

Justin were you able to establish crank out of roundness?

Also did you get the new assembly balanced given that you have new conrods ?

Hi @Peter@AEW
yes i was told the assembly was balanced in conjunction with the new parts, and the Crank was measured and ensured to be in spec.

Absolutely insane discoveries as you're going through this... so basically from outside (injectors where this journey of discovery started) to the depths of the motor, this was poorly and incompetently done. The only thing I can think is that they cobbled this together as cheaply as possible, specifically to sell it and let it be the next guy's problem (with the excuse that its an old tuned car if things went south).

There are so many cars (subarus especially) advertised with freshly built motors and advertised for not much more than a 'proper' build would have cost. I have noticed quite a few of the V10s as well claiming to be freshly built or to have the maintenance done. Doubt anyone other than the 'usual' suspects can be trusted and then only with calls to them to confirm it was actually done and not just a quote.

The only mentions prior are from a couple of users. One was last seen in 2016 who claims these guys are as good as tunetech... very unlikely based on this. The other was here yesterday but last posted years ago, and says its his mate. With the trajectory that these workshops end up taking, trading on a previously built good name and burning their clients over time, who knows how that panned out for him... maybe he can find out something LOL.

Although they are necro threads, perhaps go there and link this thread to their posts. This is more for some user in 5 or 10 years time when the current bunch of forumites is not active. At present, someone searching will be led to them as a Durban option. Rather let people see their actual capabilities/workmanship.

Reading these posts from the past, its important to remember this 'friends and family' situation people find themselves in is just an excuse to pass off bad work. There is a reason most people don't do business with friends and family OR keep it strictly business when dealing with them and it is this exact reason. How people actively pursue the opposite, I don't know... The same goes for other sympathy seeking manipulations creating a false sense of trust/closeness such as "my client didn't pay me" or "my child is sick" or "I am sick" etc. You may not even know the work is shit at the time.

Easy for clients to living in blissful ignorance that anything is even wrong. Its like a doctor with excellent bedside manner misdiagnosing and keeping you ill... but you keep going to him because you can't believe such a nice person is a quack. Alternatively they may equate their good experiences with basic work to competence in other areas: expecting their GP to also be an excellent heart surgeon... Either way, it's the same phenomenon that makes people believe they are 'friends' with salesmen, tuners that keep breaking their cars and selling them more parts and dreams of power etc. If your service provider (for anything) has become your BFF, #1 dialled person and has thousands of messages on whatsapp, remember that his BFF is really your wallet. Cut off the wallet, as the 'wrong' questions or use another service provider and see how quickly that situation evolves...

If we are being VERY charitable, there is still the possibility that the workshop was instructed by the prior owner to specifically pull the motor together to get it out the door and now his name is attached to the failure, since said owner decided to use the build as a selling point. That still doesn't excuse things like literally having the injectors inserted the wrong way round. Moot point right now, but it would be interesting to see what actually happened here.

I fully hear you, before pulling the trigger on the M6, i actually saw that post/thread you speak of mentioning that RM did good work, and off the back of that, i decided to go ahead with the purchase, assuming i had done my due diligence and research, but, as you rightly said, its a friends and family situation where they will plug their friends workshops, without any credibility and confirmation. ive been caught with it in the past also, and so we learn. damn it.

 

[Bugger]

I think the one thing you can take from this, and with respect, is that if you hadn't done the adaptations through ISTA you would've had a far more catastrophic failure further down the line that would've cost triple what it's costing you now. So as much as the pain of this current situation is, imagine if you were instead sourcing a new or used S63 to be putting in the car? It seems that Budler are definitely doing the correct repairs as required and are not at least trying to rip you off, which in itself is peace of mind right there.

As for the other guys, this has unfortunately given us all a wake up call as to the validity of independent workshops that have little to no reputation, and do, in some instances, reflect badly on workshops (the small ones included) who do amazing work on keeping older and performance cars on the road.

Sorry you've gone through all this JD, I know we've spoken a lot over the time you've had the car, and I know the pain is real financially, but you are at least getting a proper rebuild out of this, peace of mind that it's been done by a highly reputable workshop, and that the car is going to be mechanically sound moving forward, which means you'll finally be able to enjoy it the way it was intended. It could've been a lot worse (I know that's scant consolation, but there is a subliminal message in there somewhere!)

 

[General.Massacre]

I think the one thing you can take from this, and with respect, is that if you hadn't done the adaptations through ISTA you would've had a far more catastrophic failure further down the line that would've cost triple what it's costing you now. So as much as the pain of this current situation is, imagine if you were instead sourcing a new or used S63 to be putting in the car? It seems that Budler are definitely doing the correct repairs as required and are not at least trying to rip you off, which in itself is peace of mind right there.

As for the other guys, this has unfortunately given us all a wake up call as to the validity of independent workshops that have little to no reputation, and do, in some instances, reflect badly on workshops (the small ones included) who do amazing work on keeping older and performance cars on the road.

Sorry you've gone through all this JD, I know we've spoken a lot over the time you've had the car, and I know the pain is real financially, but you are at least getting a proper rebuild out of this, peace of mind that it's been done by a highly reputable workshop, and that the car is going to be mechanically sound moving forward, which means you'll finally be able to enjoy it the way it was intended. It could've been a lot worse (I know that's scant consolation, but there is a subliminal message in there somewhere!)

Bud i completely agree with your reasoning here.
Its a crap situation, no doubt about it, but i was stating this with point with @osiris earlier this year, its a blessing in disguise perhaps, as if like you said, i hadnt run that adaptations,. and the car was running fine, could the motor have grenaded on my way down to CPT? could it have happened in the next 1year, who knows, but judging by the looks of the bearings, and the state of the crank, it would have gotten exponentially worse in a short space of time, and as you say, the bill would have been far more catastrophic. So as bad as this is, i would gladly take this compared to the alternative. In this case, prevention is indeed better than cure.

 

[General.Massacre]

Morning kids.

So, the motor is fully assembled.

They found the following during the remainder of the assembly process, and attended to the issues and replaced:

• Perished Coolant line in front of the motor, wasnt leaking, but was perished enough to concern them
• 1 intake cam had some slight scoring on the surface, and also one its seals had an issue where it wasnt sealing in the housing (Dont ask, im not sure exactly what this meant). (They had spare cams so replaced the offending cam as a core exchange style, and will polish/repair my cam and put it back into their spares stock)
• New Head Bolts and Rod bolts as part of the build

Video of the Cam seals, maybe someone can give me some extra insight into what im being shown, i was told its not sealing well. which judging by the flattend seal?
View attachment VID-20250204-WA0008.mp4

The cam cap:


They really are pushing along at full speed here, also they did tell me that all my injectors were not flush into their seats... welp, well guess thats on me as the cause of that particular situation, guess i wasn't as efficient as i thought i was when doing that job.

They will be busy with the motor installation currently, then will let me know once is all buttoned up for first start, and begin testing. they will ensure the run in is done fully, and the first run in service with oil change and more road time before making sure they are comfortable with the car to be released. they want to put on around 500 - 700km to make sure the car has no issues.

So again, will keep you all updated as i get more information.

 

[Peter@AEW]

Those are steel O rings (I suspect made from cast iron).
They are used to seal oil flow for the vanos units.
Dirt cheap to replace new from BMW and a requisite on a new engine build or vanos change.

 

[General.Massacre]

Those are steel O rings (I suspect made from cast iron).
They are used to seal oil flow for the vanos units.
Dirt cheap to replace new from BMW and a requisite on a new engine build or vanos change.

Great thank you for the info Peter, I did give the go ahead for all the seals to be replaced when they inspected all the cams. so they will all be new.

 

[ajm]

Sorry to read about your troubles, Just but you appear to be in good hands. I read and hear about many issues with this engine - I guess I've been lucky although I have little doubt that most of the more serious issues are attributable to poor/inadequate maintenance and bad driving habits. Sure your M will serve you well going forward. Good luck

 

[General.Massacre]

Sorry to read about your troubles, Just but you appear to be in good hands. I read and hear about many issues with this engine - I guess I've been lucky although I have little doubt that most of the more serious issues are attributable to poor/inadequate maintenance and bad driving habits. Sure your M will serve you well going forward. Good luck

Thanks Ant, yea stuff happens.
as you said, and is the case with everything, if its well maintained and looked after, any car/engine will last a long time, this clearly wasnt the case previously, so we move forward i guess.