to be,or not to be?

[herr bmw]

oh and another point,how do we get bmw drivers together?if it wasnt for the forum there wouldnt be any runs in any province anywhere in sa.

your points are valid,but rather help us,by getting a copy of a form like the audi guys are using,and we take it from there.

im not trying to be difficult or fight here,but am prepared to listen to other peoples opinions and advice,if its going to make it safer then im all ears,so maybe lets work together and not against each other,we are bmwfanatics after all

 

[Karthik]

Eish , I'm kinda sad to say this but we do get a bit carried away on a night like such , and guilty as I am , I have to admit , its dangerous , I saw a few cars taking some bends at hefty speeds and not sticking to their lanes . It has its pros being its awesome , and its cons being it could be the end of ones life .

It can be done in a professional safe way though .

 

[Coisman]

imp:
Mike, one question.....

If this issue is soooo pressing on your mind, then why didn't you make it a topic for discussion when Herrbmw started organising the very first run?? or when we posted our pics and vids of the first run?? or when Herrbmw was organising the second run?? or when everyone was posting their pics and vids of that run, BUT only now when the guys are trying to put together a third run?? :dunno:

I really dont want to start arguments here, but although some of your points are valid, some of your conclutions and acusations are totally uncalled for!!

Ok, so you dont approve the bmwfanatics name to be associated with the runs, fine, but why then keep quiet till now??

You are in the car business, and like Herrbmw well stated, accdents happen any time, any where, even when you are standing at a red traffic light, so doing one of these runs, and driving 60 or 80 or 120 or faster really isn't the issue here, the issue is that the guys that do "drive" a bit "spirrited", do so safely, indicating lane changes, and not forcing people off the roads, on a well lit highway, with 4 lanes, and IF another road user is spotted that is not part of the run, the group backs down, settles down, and then "run" again.

I NEVER lead in ANY capacity, NEVER organised NOTHING, I was also just a bmw fanatic, there to enjoy myself, and my wife and kids were with me, so you really think I will endanger them?? Also Herrbmw had his wife and kid with him, and many of the guys had their girlfriends, friends, family members with too, like Kartik for one, and we all enjoyed our trip around JHB, with the only incident being a dog in the road.

Now you mentioned a drunk pedestrian being run over, fine, WHAAT THE HELL was a pedestrian doing on the highway?? You mentioned cars in poor condition, but once again like Herrbmw stated, most of the cars there were still so new they reaked of showroom, and the other older models... well, just look at the pics, and you will see the quality of the state these cars are kept in.

To drive in fear is pointless, and althought I dont aprove of some of the guys "driving style", I wont be made out as a cop that was there in support of an illigal event! Stating that is just unfair from your side, cause you were not there. :nonono:

If this is going to turn into another shit-flinging episode, then I suggest we cancel the plans for another run, before the cops in the areas where we will be driving recieves a tip-off concerning the event, from a concerned citizen.

I am working that weekend anyway, so I wont be able to make it, so if you guys decide to plan it, then good luck to all of you, and drive safely. :thumb:

 

[Karthik]

I think Mini-Mike you listed some good reasons but cannot blame the members of the forum directly , as it was an idea brought up , and went through with everyones content . Coisman was there but cannot be held liable for any such incidents that could have taken place because he was just a fanatic enjoying the event too .

 

[Mike1]

Coisman

The reason I only raised my concerns at this point is because for no particular reason I felt that there may be a bit of recklessness coming into the equation.

You just had a run, give it a break else people become less vigilant, less focused and people become braver. I can only emphasize that I am not suggesting you cancel the whole idea and have no runs.

I suggested it be more organized not just in lets all get together but also in terms of set rules and guidelines for those partaking to follow.

I really dont want to start arguments here, but although some of your points are valid, some of your conclutions and acusations are totally uncalled for!!

I dont recall making any accusations, however it does not take a rocket scientist to know the difference between a harmless breakfast run and something slightly more hazardous like a run in the middle of the night at illegal speeds.

If I was in JHB and heard about this run or knew it was happening (irrespective of venue or route) I would make damn sure I was not on the road that evening because I have seen enough accidents in my life to know that they are not avoidable and one such accident lost me my job so before you shunt aside the fact that you are a Metro officer taking part in something that goes against your job description and legal promise please just remember my words when the shit does hit the fan and you are in the firing line. Use it dont use it but maybe just take this advice from the 21 year old for a change. You were there, and you are here in this thread joking about the illegal speeds the drivers there were doing. I dont need to be there to know that you are screwed should anyone find this thread from your workplace.

I used to drive brand new Demo MINI Cooper S Hatches for over a year and even with perfect everything my first accident involved a woman in a Chevy pulling out in front of me (300m from my house) in a MINI Clubman S Demo. No amount of engineering, tyres or brakes could make that MINI stop any faster than it did. It wasnt enough - The same applies to those at the run. I dont care if you are in a 5 Million Dollar Veyron. When a completely oblivious drunk pulls out of a dark street or your two month old BMW has a blow out on the Freeway from that Pothole you hit last week and have already forgotten about then best you bite the bullet and hope the airbags are gentle on you and your family in the back.

Everything I have said has been hypothetical - All what ifs, I never once said the cars there were not worthy of being on the road. However all these "what ifs" have occured to many people in this country and in this world so dont think it wont happen to a bunch of Fanatics on a Midnight Run.

I am simply throwing caution to the wind as I believe that this will not end well. Cars are not toys, and public roads are exactly that - Public.

I have essentially repeated the above several times in this thread already, so for fear of sounding like a whiney queen I will leave it at this.

Not everyone is responsible but Karthik as already proved my point. Those who drive like tits need to understand the risks they take and the risks they put others in.

Have your runs, and hey if nobody gets hurt then I am glad. But dont let me be the first to say I told you so.

Mike

 

[Mike1]

I think Mini-Mike you listed some good reasons but cannot blame the members of the forum directly , as it was an idea brought up , and went through with everyones content . Coisman was there but cannot be held liable for any such incidents that could have taken place because he was just a fanatic enjoying the event too .

Bull.

Coisman is meant to set an example. If he drives his car to its limits on his own (in his personal capacity) then so be it. But driving with a group of people breaking the laws he vowed/committed to uphold and then laughing about it on a public forum doesn't set a very good example.

If he pulled you over to fine you and you knew what he was doing the night before would you treat him with the same respect? I would shove his fine in his face and tell him to stop being a hypocrite.

It really is as simple as that.

 

[135i_carboned]

A good solution to break up the big group into a smaller convoy would be to make it into 1 series fanatics run .. 3 series fanatics .. m fanatics .. x fanatics ..

but then again the night of the run the whole convoy split up into smaller groups from the beginning .. as mentioned

as said ... breakfast runs can be just as dangerous ... eg taxis everywhere .. unroadworthy cars and busy roads ... etc etc .... great points were made ... but like u said boys will be boys... but roads are always dangerous ... i prefer it being at night when the roads are quiet .. and that night was crazy quiet ...
i know it sounds like im justifying it ... but ey .. such is life of performance cars and people who love them ..

---

oh and yes i also hit the dead dog doing 120kmh .. how ironic .. whahaha

 

[Coisman]

imp:
Well ek gaan nou maar niks meer praat nie... :nonono:

 

[Fordkoppie]

Mike – The only reason I understand your concern is because I have seen your reputation and track record regarding car accidents

 

[Coisman]

:biglol:

 

[Mike1]

Mike – The only reason I understand your concern is because I have seen your reputation and track record regarding car accidents

Exactly true. I have only ever had one accident as the driver (not sure about this track record you speak of) in a car and it was as mentioned a MINI Clubman S worth over R250 000 which happened no further than 300m from my house at night (Early morning) because of a woman who pulled out in front of me.

Unfortunately that one accident cost me my job, put me into massive debt and if it was day time it would not have happened as she would have seen me coming. The difference literally is night and day.

Though, how she didnt see me even at night is mad as I always drive with fogs and the Clubby had Xenons as well.

I am just throwing caution to the wind, enjoy the runs and have fun but maybe my post will remind a few people not to go overboard as lets face it, these things happen.

Once again, take this advice from the 21 year old that has been there and done it already.

Mike

 

[Coisman]

imp:
Thanks allot for your concern Mike, :thumb:

...and no hard feelings ok, we understand where you coming from, even if you attacked me personally a bit, I can take it like a man. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike1]

imp:
Thanks allot for your concern Mike, :thumb:

...and no hard feelings ok, we understand where you coming from, even if you attacked me personally a bit, I can take it like a man. :thumbsup:

I never attacked you.

I only reminded you that you are an "Officer of the law" as such and therefore should obey the law you preach and set a positive example for other motorists to follow.

:thumbs:

 

[BMW M]

:idea: What about a run out on the N17?? Brand new road, not too late all the way to Leandra... 62km one way to the first Tollgate, turn around... come back...Just a thought...

 

[Fordkoppie]

I have only ever had one accident

One... Hmmm :fencelook:
Lets do some digging.........
Oh wait, what have we here:

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=27662&pid=290150#pid290150

 

[Coisman]

I have only ever had one accident

One... Hmmm :fencelook:
Lets do some digging.........
Oh wait, what have we here:

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=27662&pid=290150#pid290150

...before it gets aditted... :fencelook:

Oh hell. :rollsmile:

I have lots of these stories, starting with the roundabaout at Auto Atlantic where I curbed the limited edition mag wheels on a MINI Cooper S Mayfair.

Followed by me getting my new Cooper Demo (specced myself) and on the first night the windscreen got nailed on the N7 and even later that evening I curbed my left rear mag whilst trying to get around a corner.

My first accident was 300m from my house, a Chevy Spark pulled out in front of me. Needless to say it found itself on the other side of the road, facing the wrong way on the pavement. :thumbdo:

R90 000 damage! No airbags even went off and the lights all worked still.

Other things I have broken include a two week old Audi A4:

With a bicycle... On my 17th birthday. Was testing my new Polar Heart Rate monitor for the bike which my dad gave me and was trying to see how fast it could read on a downhill with a blind corner.

The call to the insurance company was classic though. I gave her the exact speed, time, date and what my heart rate was at the moment of impact as the watch had stored all of it. :rollsmile:

R30 000 damage btw.

I have more but I think I have given a good taster, thankfully I have become wiser and slowed down a bit. :joy:

Mike

 

[Nic_s]

That's enough. Let's leave it at that and move on. Mike makes some good points. Something that should be taken into account is that fact that Colin didn't expect the massive turnout and so things kinda took a life of it's own.

If there's anything that can be done to protect everyone from and dangers then it should be done. :thumb:

Dividing the 100+ cars into groups will be a good start. I think that if people really want to be in one big convoy then it would be better to stick to the speed limit. :thumb:


Let's get back on topic please.

 

[Coisman]

imp:
What was the topic again Nic?? :thinking:

 

[Fordkoppie]

Topic was about cheese and trains :biglol:

 

[Mike1]

Okay, let me quote something for you since you are so good at it.

I have only ever had one accident as the driver (not sure about this track record you speak of) in a car

I see this is now a matter of pettiness, I think I have made my point thoroughly and effectively.

I find it fascinating that nobody in this thread would ever do anything to harm their families or their livelihood. And yet when I point this out you guys will find any and every way to justify a Midnight Run with over 50 cars in convoy at illegal speeds.

If this thread was on another forum would you still try justify it?

If you didnt know Coisman and you heard he partook in the event as Metro Employee from a local newspaper would you guys all side with him and laugh with him?

You wouldnt, just like if this was any other club doing this I am sure you would all be bitching about "Safety" and "recklessness" and and and and and.

Have your fun, but at least I know I have raised a very serious matter and if nobody wants to listen then that is their concern and no longer mine.

This is my final post on this topic.

Mike