Red duck tail 🦆

[///M Individual]

Update

After crossing my 3,000km ownership mark, the following issues came up:

Since these will be covered under the preowned Porsche maintenance plan, these are not really major headaches. However, if someone is buying a used 991 from a non-Porsche dealer, then good luck trying to get an aftermarket warranty to resolve these issues after purchase. Interestingly, non-Porsche dealers are selling 991 models at very similar prices to approved used Porsches, but obviously without any Porsche plan/warranty attached.

Issue 1:


When washing the car recently, I noticed that the rubber seal around the rear windscreen is melting/disintegrating. It is so bad, that a wash cloth is lifting up pieces of rubber. When I called the dealership workshop, they said that this is a wear-and-tear issue and on an 11 year old car it must have been caused by chemicals when washing the car over the years. When I explained that I just bought the car in March, and it was sold as an approved used car, they then said they will assess it and consider it as a claim on the prewoned Plan. Anyway, the rubber seal that is disintegrating is a cosmetic rubber - the true seal is just below that (at least, this is what I was told). The fix requires the entire rear windscreen to be removed and replaced with a new glass, since the cosmetic and functional rubber seals come attached to the glass itself. This new glass is easily R20k, without labour. I am not complaining, since I am hopeful that the Plan will pay (just as they did for my R80k door interior panels replaced last month). The assessment is set for June.

Issue 2:

I got a cooling system fault warning today. Since it is yellow (not red), it is not deemed critical. I called the Porsche Assist technician and they advised that as along as the temperature gauge and other vitals are looking good, I can drive the car to the workshop. The coolant is full and the coolant and oil temps are in acceptable range. The car will go into the workshop tomorrow to check out the issue (I am hoping that they can also perform the rear windscreen claim assessment as well). Reading up on this issue on Google, it seems that the cooling system fault message can mean any of a multitude of different things (even not related to the coolant system itself) - like exhaust valve, air con or PDK sensors. It seems to be a problem with the Pierburg Change Over Valves (COVs) fitted on early 991.1 models.

The car was a garage queen before I bought her, so I expect that these issues will come up as I drive her more frequently (which I am doing as my daily driver). The good thing is that these are in the realm of known common issues of the 991.1 and once fixed they will not likely come back again. By the time the Plan expires in March next year, I would have travelled about 18,000km which should be enough to unearth most of the 991.1 gremlins, I hope.

The only really big ticket potential time bomb is the PDK gearbox - as per my experience on my 981 Cayman S, these can cause issues with time and need replacement. Daily driving, which ironically takes more of a toll on PDKs instead of performance driving, can unearth issues if there are any. My commute and weekend driving is hopefully a good mix of stressed, unstressed and performance driving conditions that will allow the PDK to get a full workout.

Anyway, some Fanatics have asked me questions about the ownership experience and hopefully these posts give some useful information on used 991.1 ownership.

On a side note, I am slightly disappointed that I cannot attend the BMW Skidpan event at xDrive Park, Midrand, this Saturday. Anyway, I still have some epic breakfast runs to look forward too.

I found the windscreen rubber deterioration issue on a clients 981 Boxster as well. It is terrible especially when it catches on your drying towel or cloths as you say....almost like Sikaflex.

Regarding the used Porsche's you are right about pricing being the same at non-Porsche dealers. After the red one at PC CT sold, I am keeping an eye out for another for my colleague and the ones at non-Porsche dealers look really attractive with low mileage etc. But I think plan is a must with these cars.

 

[MR_Y]

Was looking forward to seeing this at the skidpan this weekend...

Look out for my mate in the red MX5 RF...

 

[TurboLlew]

Update

After crossing my 3,000km ownership mark, the following issues came up:

Since these will be covered under the preowned Porsche maintenance plan, these are not really major headaches. However, if someone is buying a used 991 from a non-Porsche dealer, then good luck trying to get an aftermarket warranty to resolve these issues after purchase. Interestingly, non-Porsche dealers are selling 991 models at very similar prices to approved used Porsches, but obviously without any Porsche plan/warranty attached.

Issue 1:


When washing the car recently, I noticed that the rubber seal around the rear windscreen is melting/disintegrating. It is so bad, that a wash cloth is lifting up pieces of rubber. When I called the dealership workshop, they said that this is a wear-and-tear issue and on an 11 year old car it must have been caused by chemicals when washing the car over the years. When I explained that I just bought the car in March, and it was sold as an approved used car, they then said they will assess it and consider it as a claim on the prewoned Plan. Anyway, the rubber seal that is disintegrating is a cosmetic rubber - the true seal is just below that (at least, this is what I was told). The fix requires the entire rear windscreen to be removed and replaced with a new glass, since the cosmetic and functional rubber seals come attached to the glass itself. This new glass is easily R20k, without labour. I am not complaining, since I am hopeful that the Plan will pay (just as they did for my R80k door interior panels replaced last month). The assessment is set for June.

Issue 2:

I got a cooling system fault warning today. Since it is yellow (not red), it is not deemed critical. I called the Porsche Assist technician and they advised that as along as the temperature gauge and other vitals are looking good, I can drive the car to the workshop. The coolant is full and the coolant and oil temps are in acceptable range. The car will go into the workshop tomorrow to check out the issue (I am hoping that they can also perform the rear windscreen claim assessment as well). Reading up on this issue on Google, it seems that the cooling system fault message can mean any of a multitude of different things (even not related to the coolant system itself) - like exhaust valve, air con or PDK sensors. It seems to be a problem with the Pierburg Change Over Valves (COVs) fitted on early 991.1 models.

The car was a garage queen before I bought her, so I expect that these issues will come up as I drive her more frequently (which I am doing as my daily driver). The good thing is that these are in the realm of known common issues of the 991.1 and once fixed they will not likely come back again. By the time the Plan expires in March next year, I would have travelled about 18,000km which should be enough to unearth most of the 991.1 gremlins, I hope.

The only really big ticket potential time bomb is the PDK gearbox - as per my experience on my 981 Cayman S, these can cause issues with time and need replacement. Daily driving, which ironically takes more of a toll on PDKs instead of performance driving, can unearth issues if there are any. My commute and weekend driving is hopefully a good mix of stressed, unstressed and performance driving conditions that will allow the PDK to get a full workout.

Anyway, some Fanatics have asked me questions about the ownership experience and hopefully these posts give some useful information on used 991.1 ownership.

On a side note, I am slightly disappointed that I cannot attend the BMW Skidpan event at xDrive Park, Midrand, this Saturday. Anyway, I still have some epic breakfast runs to look forward too.

The rear seal appears to be a VERY common issue and not one you immediately pick up when you start looking... This one below had a full 'Porsche Factory Respray/Restore' and was on the pre-approved floor. (that magical thing they charge more for at sale and hit you for on trade ).

I didn't believe them at first when they said they would replace the rear glass as part of the deal for that LOL. With the number of them that seem to have this (even as you say in the case of garage queens) it makes you wonder why they didn't come up with a revision/better design for this or at the very least a solution that doesn't require the entire rear screen to be replaced. Once you see this, you can't unsee it and it makes you look at all the other rubber bits that are also worse for wear (and yes even for an older car).

Car manufacturers have been blaming customers for deterioration of various things for years. Even Merc (and I've posted these pics before) blamed me for every single quality defect (Wheels, paint, interiors etc) on a car we have owned since almost brand new and still on plan (and during some of these complaints, even under warranty). We are also gas lit into thinking that some things are 'normal' for 11 year old cars and we are unreasonable to expect things to last... But sure, our car wash things are definitely to blame... totally not bad build quality or inferior materials

It isn't limited to Porsche or even Germans. Even fairly new Ferraris (458/488) have peeling plastics, lifting leather covers, brittle clips/plastics and sticky buttons/plastics as well. How they have not gotten this right in 30+ years is beyond me... especially with their 'brand value' focus and expecting their owners to be collectors.

Anyway I have no doubt they will sort you out and even if they are giving you excuses or telling you it's normal, they do seem to know this is a problem, so should sort you out. I wonder what you could use to keep this from happening though? Perhaps something like Liqui Moly Gummi Pflege?

 

[MR_Y]

@TurboLlew When I went to the dealer today, I saw a few approved used cars (not GTx models) with minor issues on the floor:
- small spider cracks on the headlights
- peeling under the front bumpers (likely from curb rash)

My understanding is that when a car is brought into approved used stock, the minimum 111 point check is done and nothing else (unless maybe if it is a younger used car or a GTx model). When the buyer takes ownership, I guess most buyers won't even pick up these "small" issues and won't claim under the pre-owned Plan. Granted, most cosmetic issues may not be allowed under plan.

Since warranty (even pre-owned) claims have to go through Porsche Middle East, it makes sense that the local dealership will rather wait to submit claims when the car has an owner assigned to it - I don't know if a warranty claim can be made easily if it is in dealer stock. Also, having to make a claim and wait means the dealership cannot sell the car quickly.

Anyway, Googling international forums has been useful. Knowing what the common issues are and keeping an eye out does help.

 

[MR_Y]

I found the windscreen rubber deterioration issue on a clients 981 Boxster as well. It is terrible especially when it catches on your drying towel or cloths as you say....almost like Sikaflex.

Regarding the used Porsche's you are right about pricing being the same at non-Porsche dealers. After the red one at PC CT sold, I am keeping an eye out for another for my colleague and the ones at non-Porsche dealers look really attractive with low mileage etc. But I think plan is a must with these cars.

I will add a disclaimer to what I said about buying from a non-Porsche dealer...

If the car had a fastidious previous owner, who kept a record of all the work done and you can see that all the common issues have been fixed, then buying the car from them privately will make sense. Or, buying from a non-Porsche dealer who has all that previous work evidence stored on file.

 

[MR_Y]

Update:

A vacuum pipe and related solenoid/COV that is linked to the coolant system needs to be replaced.

The rear windscreen is being ordered.

So far, everything is covered by Plan.

 

[Eust]

These cars without plan....... that would be interesting financially, especially if the owner is paying the R15-R20k P.M for the car and then runs out of plan in a year, but has 4 or 5 years still left to pay it off.

And with a 1 year plan, you literally need to loop back into the trade in/up yearly or open yourself up to these ad hoc expenses - which could be disastrous 😳

Such nice cars though, pay to play I guess.

 

[MR_Y]

These cars without plan....... that would be interesting financially, especially if the owner is paying the R15-R20k P.M for the car and then runs out of plan in a year, but has 4 or 5 years still left to pay it off.

And with a 1 year plan, you literally need to loop back into the trade in/up yearly or open yourself up to these ad hoc expenses - which could be disastrous 😳

Such nice cars though, pay to play I guess.

I think if the big ticket warranty items are replaced in year 1, and replaced properly, the routine service and maintenance thereafter are no worse than an M or AMG, especially if non-ceramic brakes are fitted. Granted, there will always be that low probability, high impact, tail risk event that must be budgeted for. I will need to revert with evidence when I cross that bridge..

Regarding finance, I would not advise traditional VAF terms on cars like this, unless that tail risk is budgeted for

 

[TBP88]

I think if the big ticket warranty items are replaced in year 1, and replaced properly, the routine service and maintenance thereafter are no worse than an M or AMG, especially if non-ceramic brakes are fitted. Granted, there will always be that low probability, high impact, tail risk event that must be budgeted for. I will need to revert with evidence when I cross that bridge..

Regarding finance, I would not advise traditional VAF terms on cars like this, unless that tail risk is budgeted for

Even if you have ceramics, there's a lot of aftermarket swap out support. But agreed, you can't realistically budget for a R100-200k expense for brakes if PCCBs fail, unless you're obscenely rich.

 

[MR_Y]

Informative, short video of the common issues on the 991.1

So far, I have door panels and change over valves ticked off that list. Both are factory issues.

My fixed rear wing means that the active spoiler mechanism failure and active spoiler brake light issues are not applicable.

The video is just missing these other issues (from what I researched online):
- Headlight delamination
- rear windscreen rubber (soon to be ticked off my list)
- PDK failure
- PADM (dynamic engine mounts) failure

The latter two items are tail risks (low probability, but high cost) that should be budgeted for, if they did not already occur.

For anyone considering a used 991.1, I hope the above is helpful.

 

[MR_Y]

Update for those who are interested

Some may recall the issue I had on my Cayman S in 2021 where the car was at the dealership for 2 months, waiting for a PDK gearbox: https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/threads/2014-porsche-cayman-s-pdk-sports-chrono.95329/post-1454232

Well, no PDK issue this time, but I was told I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for the Change over Valve (CoV) to fix my coolant issue. It seems that there is a global backlog of this part and I have been added to the waiting list. I am not holding my breath, since I know these waiting times can vary - my 2021 PDK was initially a 3 week wait that ended up being 2 months.

Anyway, the good news is that the complete rear windscreen and seals are being ordered as well and that, together with the CoVs, will arrive at the same time.

I have been offered a courtesy car (noting that there is a hefty insurance excess applied by Porsche, based on % of the courtesy car's retail value). Will revert next week on what I get - hoping it is an oldish diesel Cayenne, so that the insurance excess is not so rough - noting that I will drive the car daily.

Speaking of insurance, I have asked my insurance to adjust my premium because the car is sitting at the dealer workshop and not being driven.

For those interested, this is the CoV issue explained:

Worth also noting that, based on anecdotal evidence, the turbo charged 3.0 991.2 models (Carrera base and S) seem to have more coolant related issues than the 991.1 NA motors. Again, these issues seem to crop up with age and mileage, so more motivation to buy a used car that has some decent mileage on it, so the previous owner would have resolved these issues already.

As also stated in my 981 Cayman S thread, a low mileage older car is not necessarily a better buy over a car that was used often and covered mileage where things usually go pop. In my case, I wanted a shiny and new looking car, so I chose low mileage, with some maintenance plan to resolve the issues😀

 

[MR_Y]

Edit

 

[MR_Y]

Correction on my previous statements on Porsche extended warranty!

I previously mentioned that one cannot purchase an extended warranty from Porsche if one buys the car outside of the Porsche dealership network.

This restriction applies to maintenance plans. However, I learned today that you can purchase an extended warranty from Porsche even if your car is not from their dealership network!

Here is the link:

Porsche Approved Warranty

dealer.porsche.com

"Stand alone warranty" applies to cars purchased outside the Porsche network. However, a 111 point check is required before the warranty is implemented.

Interestingly, the warranties on sports cars are cheaper than the SUVs and Sedans! I guess they have more faith in the "pure" products vs the VAG products

Obviously, wear and tear and cosmetic items are not covered. But I would assume a PDK failure would be covered.

The cover goes up to 15years/200,000km compared to the maintenance plan that goes up to 12years/150,000km.

 

[MR_Y]

Update:

A vacuum pipe and related solenoid/COV that is linked to the coolant system needs to be replaced.

The rear windscreen is being ordered.

So far, everything is covered by Plan.

Update

Car has been at the dealer since 29 May
Parts have been ordered.
Work to be performed next week.
Car should be back by July.
I am not rushing the process since I want the workshop to perform sufficient quality checks on both the coolant system and the rear windscreen.

I also asked that they check the battery as well for good measure and replace if necessary (under Plan off course).

In the meantime, I am running a 2014 Macan S Petrol. 136,000km+ and with a few scars, but still very drivable. Lacks low end grunt of my ex Macan S Diesel, but has enough pep higher up the rev range.

The flipside of having "Porsche Experience" stickers on the sides is that people assume it is a roadside assist vehicle, so I am given way when merging with traffic

 

[MR_Y]

Correction on my previous statements on Porsche extended warranty!

I previously mentioned that one cannot purchase an extended warranty from Porsche if one buys the car outside of the Porsche dealership network.

This restriction applies to maintenance plans. However, I learned today that you can purchase an extended warranty from Porsche even if your car is not from their dealership network!

Here is the link:

Porsche Approved Warranty

dealer.porsche.com

"Stand alone warranty" applies to cars purchased outside the Porsche network. However, a 111 point check is required before the warranty is implemented.

Interestingly, the warranties on sports cars are cheaper than the SUVs and Sedans! I guess they have more faith in the "pure" products vs the VAG products

Obviously, wear and tear and cosmetic items are not covered. But I would assume a PDK failure would be covered.

The cover goes up to 15years/200,000km compared to the maintenance plan that goes up to 12years/150,000km.

View attachment 22576

Correction (on what was meant to be a correction)....

When I called Porsche Johannesburg, they said that the above warranty extensions are not applicable. The website link has been removed from their homepage. It seems that this website was updated in error.

So far, the only valid extensions are on the Preowned Maintenance Plan until 12 years/150,000km. No warranty extensions are offered

 

[Eust]

Porsche is really for the guys with next level money or next level risk appetite 😆

 

[MR_Y]

Porsche is really for the guys with next level money or next level risk appetite 😆

As far as warranty extensions, approved by BMW, how far out can you go?

 

[TurboLlew]

The flipside of having "Porsche Experience" stickers on the sides is that people assume it is a roadside assist vehicle, so I am given way when merging with traffic

There's an inexpensive life-hack in there somewhere

 

[TBP88]

As far as warranty extensions, approved by BMW, how far out can you go?

2yrs iirc. I drove by an audi sign saying something about 15yrs? I'd love to know if that's legit...

 

[TBP88]

Audi Freeway Plan | Audi Service Plans | Audi South Africa

Audi Freeway Plan is a comprehensive maintenance and service plan that offers coverage with no hidden costs and unexpected surprises.

www.audi.co.za

Seems like it goes and goes...