Help Needed M5 s85 bearings

[splintheter]

Hi,on my M5 , I heard a very faint rattle sound, got louder around 2k to rpm
Decided to look at bearings and replace should need be, all seemed well until I to to no.9 journal . Crank was scored n bearing turned,no.10 showed wear but as bad.
Not to be negative but to inform of my experience on a very well maintained M5.110k on the clock

Its such an EPIC engine but one wonders if its even worth taking a chance and buying a used one these days.

There is a HUGE difference between dropping in a set of shells and being on your way and having to strip the engine to deal with a damaged crank (not sure if you can even get oversize shells for these)

Its really a ticking timebomb and totally unacceptable - a few Mercedes motors are also dodgy like the m272/m273 motors and their failing balance shaft bearings and the m271 with its chocolate timing gears

Anybody prepared to prepare a list of problematic german performance motors?
(by problematic I mean potentially catastrophic engine failures/faults)


Ill start:

1) BMW S85 (rod bearings)
2) BMW S65 (rod bearings)
3) MERC M272/273 (balance shaft and idler gears)
4) MERC M271 (camshaft sprocket teeth)
5) Audi S4 V8 +/- 2004 (BBK engine with failing chain tensioners/rails actuators)

Feel free to continue ....

Nothing quite like a thread hijack. Let's try help the OP, not The polar opposite. You just need to treat bearings as a maintenance item on any M for last 17 years. They are amazing engines, and if looked after they provide far more joy than worry

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[Andrew]

LoL - ok point taken - I just happend to type what I was thinking at the time

Nevertheless - as amazing as they are, high mileage s85/s65 motors are the exception rather than the norm as experienced by the OP

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As I recall and I just checked - there are no oversize shells for the rod bearings on the s85. If the crank is damaged it can be repaired to accept standard shells

This involves maganaflux testing to check the integrity of the crank, thereafter if the scoring is not to bad the journal in question can be chromed and polished back to spec.

If the the scoring is deep, then it will need to be welded by an expert, ground, chromed and polished.

BIG BIG Bucks

I would pick up a used engine, do the bearings (assuming this crank is still good) and strip and sell the other motor off as parts to help recuperate the costs

 

[Blackhawk]

https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=79260

80000kms bearings were worn and on their way to copper

Morning..Unfortunately my browser here at work can't open the pic's...dam..just wondering if it is copper then it should be softer than the crank? I am just hoping my cranks is ok...starting to go green here...wondering also if there is a place in Cape Town were I can hire the engine stay to drop the sump? Also the TIS says to re-use the con-rod bolts is that true? Thanks Guys you really rock on this forum!!!

 

[evnmopwr]

https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=79260

80000kms bearings were worn and on their way to copper

Morning..Unfortunately my browser here at work can't open the pic's...dam..just wondering if it is copper then it should be softer than the crank? I am just hoping my cranks is ok...starting to go green here...wondering also if there is a place in Cape Town were I can hire the engine stay to drop the sump? Also the TIS says to re-use the con-rod bolts is that true? Thanks Guys you really rock on this forum!!!

Dont stress until you have opened it up.
Not sure who rents these out but you need something like this:

Or if you have sumone that can make you something like it, will also be cool

I cannot comment on the Rod Bolts so will leave that to the M5 guys to answer

 

[telegamer]

Which dealerships have you tried to get the bearings done at ?

 

[Blackhawk]

Hi I tried forsdiks in Durban rd...They only could do the stripping for 18k only.. They also said it is " vingers brand" So they don't want to work on it at all...and at that pricing I would rather just shoot myself...Think I found a engine braes,, thanks to a friend in Kuilsriver.

 

[Peter@AEW]

https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=79260

80000kms bearings were worn and on their way to copper

Morning..Unfortunately my browser here at work can't open the pic's...dam..just wondering if it is copper then it should be softer than the crank? I am just hoping my cranks is ok...starting to go green here...wondering also if there is a place in Cape Town were I can hire the engine stay to drop the sump? Also the TIS says to re-use the con-rod bolts is that true? Thanks Guys you really rock on this forum!!!

Use this to fix the broken links

https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=82302

 

[evnmopwr]

Hi I tried forsdiks in Durban rd...They only could do the stripping for 18k only.. They also said it is " vingers brand" So they don't want to work on it at all...and at that pricing I would rather just shoot myself...Think I found a engine braes,, thanks to a friend in Kuilsriver.

ONLY go to Fordicks to by parts. Ask for Faried or Ricardo. They give the best prices.

BUT DO NOT LET ANY OF THOSE TECHS TOUCH YOUR CAR EVEN IF THEY OFFER IT FOR FREE!!!!!

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Glad you came right with the Brace. I had one i bought from adendorf and loaned it out and it never returned....

never borrow stuff to Honda Drivers

Post up images once you pulled them out. Mark your Caps as you remove them

 

[Kish2604]

OP... i am sorry for troubles but it could be a lot worse... IE: stuck on the road side with a Discovery 3 or 4, it only swings but does not start and you suspect the crack has snapped. even worse there is no known rebuild process for that sub assembly, LR dont sell cranks loose, there are no oversize bearing shells and the only option you have for your luxury cruiser is to buy a sub from LR @ 150k all in... BTW have a i mentioned the body must be lifted free of the chassis to get the motor out?

as i said it could be worse... stay calm, get your tools together, investigate the process in depth then when you can do it in your mind then start with the task at hand.

Goodluck!

 

[Blackhawk]

Wow thanks guys for the encouragement!!!! You rock!!! lets see how it looks in a day or two... Regards

 

[Ratslaaf]

Also the TIS says to re-use the con-rod bolts is that true? Thanks Guys you really rock on this forum!!!

No, you have to replace bolts as they are stretched after torque process. TIS tells you to only use the old bolts, after you replaced the bearing shells, in order to check shell/crank clearance with suitable plastic feeler gauge. Once you’ve confirmed clearances are in spec, you remove old bolts and insert new ones and torque to spec.

Personally, I’d be reluctant to do this myself as a first time. When I did the motor on my old M3, I did all the monkey work but had Peter come do the actual bearing install when motor was out.

 

[Peter@AEW]

Also the TIS says to re-use the con-rod bolts is that true? Thanks Guys you really rock on this forum!!!

No, you have to replace bolts as they are stretched after torque process. TIS tells you to only use the old bolts, after you replaced the bearing shells, in order to check shell/crank clearance with suitable plastic feeler gauge. Once you’ve confirmed clearances are in spec, you remove old bolts and insert new ones and torque to spec.

Personally, I’d be reluctant to do this myself as a first time. When I did the motor on my old M3, I did all the monkey work but had Peter come do the actual bearing install when motor was out.

What you did was not exactly monkey work.

You stripped that engine bay almost to bare paint.

 

[Ratslaaf]

:roflol:

 

[tc335tt]

Hi, the vanos solenoid s should be cleaned out if not replaced. Those tiny metal/ copper shavings get into them and jam.
My car picked up a sudden miss fire, that was the 1st indicator of something more sinister.
Pulled out solenoids PITA,opened and closed them with a 9v battery in diesel.
Did the trick.car ran 100%
Decided to change oil AGAIN,thats when I saw the metal shavings.

 

[Ratslaaf]

^^^ Good call on testing the solenoids with a low current 9v battery. I’ve seen guys use a 12v car battery to test these and they end up ruining the solenoid as it’s not designed to be powered constantly. Phone bmw and ask for a price on a solenoid, have some tissues ready.

Also, good tip on cleaning the solenoids as a lot of debris end up in their wire mesh filters. Mine had a lot of oil gunk when I removed them. I also had a lot of caking in the top of the tappit covers; a direct result of that TWS poison bmw used at the time. Bear in mind my motor was taken apart just after it came out of Plan.

 

[Blackhawk]

Ok and now??? This is the worst set of bearings out of the whole lot,,...
Starting to think all the discussions is a little paranoid about the e60 m5 bearings..

So here we go!! 80k on clock,, bearings still looks like new...The worst problem I have know is the steering shaft fell on my head and don't have the foggiest idea of putting it back...Going to order the new set of bearing and bolts with the gasket...doesn't help have gone so far can just as well install and call it a reset for the car?...

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I see the one bearing is some kind lead based? Hope the new bearings from BMW is exactly the same as that came out of the car?

 

[Ratslaaf]

Mine only looked slightly worse after 100k km. That being said, there’s enough evidence of Bearings looking a lot worse at lower mileage. So it’s a crap shoot. My logic is that it’s a relatively small price to pay for a little peace of mind. The alternative is at least 4 or 5 times the price at minimum.

 

[Blackhawk]

HI. Parts arrived Yesterday, must say the bearings on the top of the half shell looks different to the ones that came out of the car, its not lead based? is this normal? Did they change the composition of the bearings? will post pic's after I have successfully done this home diy...lol

 

[F21GP]

HI. Parts arrived Yesterday, must say the bearings on the top of the half shell looks different to the ones that came out of the car, its not lead based? is this normal? Did they change the composition of the bearings? will post pic's after I have successfully done this home diy...lol

Yes they did change the composition as far as I know.


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[Ratslaaf]

88/89 bearings were lead based. The 702/703 bearings aren’t.