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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
fuel for m3
- Thread starter zainm3
- Start date
STREETRACER
Active member
Ive used it plenty and yes it does work! but only if your car is mapped for it! it alows you to advance more timing! But if not mapped for it you will loose power! Higher octane means slower burning rate! If you are at the coast you might get away with it but not at altitude on a N/A car!
Get your car UniQ chiped with 2 maps one for octane booster and one for 95 octane!
Get your car UniQ chiped with 2 maps one for octane booster and one for 95 octane!
STREETRACER said:
True to a certain extent. If the ECU cannot advance timing and check for knock itself then yes. Will serve no purpose. On my car (E46 M3) I have run NF ultra and dyno runs have verified there is definetely a power increase. Knock at low revs dissapear aswell. I dont run it every tank though. Only now and again. They have been known to chow plugs.
P1000
///Member
Just be careful - if something chows plug, it chows lambda sensors even faster. Bosch lambda sensors have a lifespan rating of 160000km on unleaded, and 24hrs on leaded... M3 stock map will be for the 98+ octane(which is what you are supposed to fill it with), from there the ECU retards timing.
Matt Q
///Member
We have answered this extensively on an earlier fuel thread and the original poster really should have searched the forums before asking these questions.
Please search for the fuel thread on additives (Mike @ Liqui Molly's thread I think) - I posted LOADS of info there on fuels.
Nevertheless let me clear up the most glaringly obvious mistakes here..
Almost correct. Yes it does work and no you do not have to be mapped for any of the fuels or fuel additives you guys are chatting about. Why I say this is we all drive Bimmers and ALL German cars are mapped for 98. DONT go and get a UniQ as it doesn't control your Vanos correctly and getting a map for 95 and another for octane boosters is dangerous as the actual increase in octane given by the boosters varies. You should only EVER get a map for a very stable fuel source (such as proper race fuel)
The reason all these fuels and boosters work is because they come closer to the fuel your car was designed to run on originally. The power figures quoted for your car are based on SA fuel so you WILL get better power (EU standards) using better fuel.
You would only need to map for fuel of over 98 RON Octane (such as 98 AKI or 98 MON which is WAY higher Octane)
Incorrect that you will lose power on race fuel if not mapped for it, you will only lose money.
However in comparison if you are mapped for race fuel or boosters and you run normal crappy SA fuel you run the risk of blowing your engine - BE CAREFUL WITH MAPPING!!!!!
Also, Streetracer.. incorrect on the comment of high Octane = slow burning.
Octane (just like Pentane in Diesel) is simply a measure of a fuels RESISTANCE to burning. Higher Octane = Higher resistance. That is why race fuel can be used in very high temperature high compression engines and will not knock (pre-ignite) whereas pump fuel will literally explode the same engines.
In fact some high octane fuels are designed to be super fast burning for use in high revving race engines or dragster engines. Your slower burning highly oxygenated fuels (such as AVGAS) are generally designed for lower revving high torque high altitude engines..
Any more questions?
Please search for the fuel thread on additives (Mike @ Liqui Molly's thread I think) - I posted LOADS of info there on fuels.
Nevertheless let me clear up the most glaringly obvious mistakes here..
zainm3 said:
STREETRACER said:
Almost correct. Yes it does work and no you do not have to be mapped for any of the fuels or fuel additives you guys are chatting about. Why I say this is we all drive Bimmers and ALL German cars are mapped for 98. DONT go and get a UniQ as it doesn't control your Vanos correctly and getting a map for 95 and another for octane boosters is dangerous as the actual increase in octane given by the boosters varies. You should only EVER get a map for a very stable fuel source (such as proper race fuel)
The reason all these fuels and boosters work is because they come closer to the fuel your car was designed to run on originally. The power figures quoted for your car are based on SA fuel so you WILL get better power (EU standards) using better fuel.
You would only need to map for fuel of over 98 RON Octane (such as 98 AKI or 98 MON which is WAY higher Octane)
Incorrect that you will lose power on race fuel if not mapped for it, you will only lose money.
However in comparison if you are mapped for race fuel or boosters and you run normal crappy SA fuel you run the risk of blowing your engine - BE CAREFUL WITH MAPPING!!!!!
Also, Streetracer.. incorrect on the comment of high Octane = slow burning.
Octane (just like Pentane in Diesel) is simply a measure of a fuels RESISTANCE to burning. Higher Octane = Higher resistance. That is why race fuel can be used in very high temperature high compression engines and will not knock (pre-ignite) whereas pump fuel will literally explode the same engines.
In fact some high octane fuels are designed to be super fast burning for use in high revving race engines or dragster engines. Your slower burning highly oxygenated fuels (such as AVGAS) are generally designed for lower revving high torque high altitude engines..
Any more questions?
A
anile8-zn
Guest
hi Matt , i think you are correct but there are instances where having too high octane can be counter productive.
1. on turbo cars , the ecu actauly needs to retard timing under boost , running say 120 octane on a golf 5 gti will result in the car running alot of timing but not hitting its boost targets.
2. on aspirated cars , the slow burning fuel can pass through the combustion chambers unburnt .
if for example u achieve max timing with 98 unleaded and then throw in 20 litres of toluene raising the octane to 111 , u will actually loose power as u are not burining the fuel effectively , this is where streetracers point of a "race" map comes in. if the compression is high enough and u can map the vanos to take advantage of the higher octane u will get greater gains .
on a standard ecu there are maximum parameters which effects the process as i have illustrated above.
1. on turbo cars , the ecu actauly needs to retard timing under boost , running say 120 octane on a golf 5 gti will result in the car running alot of timing but not hitting its boost targets.
2. on aspirated cars , the slow burning fuel can pass through the combustion chambers unburnt .
if for example u achieve max timing with 98 unleaded and then throw in 20 litres of toluene raising the octane to 111 , u will actually loose power as u are not burining the fuel effectively , this is where streetracers point of a "race" map comes in. if the compression is high enough and u can map the vanos to take advantage of the higher octane u will get greater gains .
on a standard ecu there are maximum parameters which effects the process as i have illustrated above.
STREETRACER
Active member
@MAT I agree with you as i asume you stay at or near the coast!
The E36 M3 3.2 we got is not mapped for 98 infact we got our own version of the Evo with lower compression pistons to acomodate for our crap fuels! So yes its German but S.A adapted!
Ive seen awesome gains with boosters on Stock cars! As we Have tested and still test alot of things for my website!
On my car i loose bottom end power using any higher octane fuels or any boosters!
When i say you loose power with octane too high for your map.. A great question as Example for my statement!
When does a car make its best power? When its running lean! If i use CO's as example most factory tuned cars are running between 5-8 CO's.. If you take fuel away from 8 to 5 you will make more power and from 5 - 3 you will get around the same power using less fuel! I have found like on my car for instance i make my best power at an AFR of 13.2-1.. When i advance my timming on 95 i start to loose power before it starts to ping! So in my case you will not gain in any way with octane boosters or race fuel!
Our Race golf runs 12.8-1 compression and it pings on slow timming using just 95.. so on 102.6 octane we can run optimal timing to make best power!
Turbo or charged cars are always better and safer with higher octane as you dont just boost higher or safer but can also run some more timming!
I dont understand why you say the UniQ does not Control vanos corectly? Its a piggy back system with an happy ending! If its doesnt control your vanos corectly the tuner did not tune it right! The newer generation cars has 100% electrical Vanos and all the UniQ does is alow you to alter the values or voltages going to the solenoids! so you can actualy get a finer tunnig on your cams aspecialy if you run profiled or wilder cams!
I think at the coast my car will perform better with higher octane as we are 1550m above sea level! And on some lower compresion cars we actualy made more power using 93 octane!
The UniQ can safe up to 5 aditional maps.. which can be selected by means of an onboard switch or bluetooth from your Cellphone!
Hope this post does not seem like i am debating or flaming just stating my experience with boosters!
The E36 M3 3.2 we got is not mapped for 98 infact we got our own version of the Evo with lower compression pistons to acomodate for our crap fuels! So yes its German but S.A adapted!
Ive seen awesome gains with boosters on Stock cars! As we Have tested and still test alot of things for my website!
On my car i loose bottom end power using any higher octane fuels or any boosters!
When i say you loose power with octane too high for your map.. A great question as Example for my statement!
When does a car make its best power? When its running lean! If i use CO's as example most factory tuned cars are running between 5-8 CO's.. If you take fuel away from 8 to 5 you will make more power and from 5 - 3 you will get around the same power using less fuel! I have found like on my car for instance i make my best power at an AFR of 13.2-1.. When i advance my timming on 95 i start to loose power before it starts to ping! So in my case you will not gain in any way with octane boosters or race fuel!
Our Race golf runs 12.8-1 compression and it pings on slow timming using just 95.. so on 102.6 octane we can run optimal timing to make best power!
Turbo or charged cars are always better and safer with higher octane as you dont just boost higher or safer but can also run some more timming!
I dont understand why you say the UniQ does not Control vanos corectly? Its a piggy back system with an happy ending! If its doesnt control your vanos corectly the tuner did not tune it right! The newer generation cars has 100% electrical Vanos and all the UniQ does is alow you to alter the values or voltages going to the solenoids! so you can actualy get a finer tunnig on your cams aspecialy if you run profiled or wilder cams!
I think at the coast my car will perform better with higher octane as we are 1550m above sea level! And on some lower compresion cars we actualy made more power using 93 octane!
The UniQ can safe up to 5 aditional maps.. which can be selected by means of an onboard switch or bluetooth from your Cellphone!
Hope this post does not seem like i am debating or flaming just stating my experience with boosters!
Matt Q
///Member
STREETRACER said:
Dude! I WISH there were more answers like the one you gave above. No way would it be considered flaming but I WOULD rate that as a very healthy debate.
So I was mis-informed about UniQ.... can it really control Vanos? If so then I really should look into it for Jezzy and get some different maps on the go too!!
I've always wished I had a bad boy map for running 104 so I could take full advantage of it.
I guess I need to dig a little deeper into the UniQ world !!
STREETRACER
Active member
bud the Q has auxilery ports you can use for vanos, BOOST CONTOLERS, nos controlers, launch controll! oom pieter from dastek even run his electronic clutch and gearbox on the lambo through the Q!! PM me ur mail and ill send you every thing i have on the chip on monday! im on my way to Mighty Men Conference in gray town!
