F10 M5 - Should I?

[Tander]

Hey all,

So, for the longest time I have been a big BMW fan. The only BMW I ever owned was an E34 525i. I've always loved the M5 and am finally in a position where I can afford one.

I'm looking at the F10 M5 - from 2014 onwards. I think this was the Face Lift? Does anyone know what the difference besides the headlights and steering wheel was?

My biggest concern though, is should I buy one at all? Are they reliable secondhand - common issues I should be looking out for?

Lastly is there a way to tell if the car is / was modded? I'd like to buy a stock one if possible as I see modded ones can give issues.

Thanks!

 

[tman]

If you looking at +-2014, try to get one with at lease a few months of MP left.

This will give you peace of mind on the modding front, and/or any major issues that might be lurking.

 

[telegamer]

Stunning cars, yes get one with a bit of plan left, I had a few bits and bobs replaced under plan, clutch, brakes, manifolds , runs big money, regular maintenance, oil change etc will see few issues crop up, the previously modded thing is a difficult one, but it’s oddly enough a car that can driven like a granny as a daily, and like an animal whenever required, and I find M cars tiring to drive daily, not so the F10, get one, you won’t be sorry

 

[MR_Y]

I recall listening to a 702 Motoring podcast a few months ago. A guy who bought a used M5 F10 called in and said that his gearbox went kaput just as the car went out of motorplan. The guest on the show advised him to sell the car, given that BMW were charging him more than half the trade value of the car, or get ot fixed aftermarket.

Affording a performance car encompasses not just the purchase price but all the maintenance that goes along with it. If you have a great aftermarket mechanic on speed dial, that would be great.

 

[Veteran]

Modern cars are becoming very advanced and can cost a ton without motorplan.
I was interested in buying a 14/15 m5 last year but lost interest when I saw someone just out of motorplan and with 30 000 km pop the engine.
Im not sure but I think it was 35k USD or about 500k .
And the M5 motors aren’t bullet proof per se.
A Golf R for example is virtually unbreakable, even with lots of mods.

So I agree with replies about having motorplan. But then u can’t mod it, and when it ends, the cars value takes a vertical nose dive.

It’s still a stunning machine though.

 

[yush1]

Any second hand M car is risky without MP. General maintenance is also more expensive. Get one with a bit of MP and try and get as much as you can changed before it expires. @turbolew and can advise on general maintenance and costs as well. :thumbs:

 

[cOlDFuSiOn]

Depends what you want the car for.. If it is purely a toy and you aim to build it, maintain it, etc. Then a 2nd hand M makes sense, but you need to still spend money on it and so on. With the V8 there is double of everything too... If you sitting there thinking wait instead of a new 320d I can buy a used M and use it as my daily, to sit in traffic, etc. Then it is a different story.. When things go wrong, you would have wished you did not buy it.

The S63 although I have never owned one, appears relatively solid, the revised one from 2015 seems to be the one to have though..

The heart wants what the heart wants, if it is a toy and you have other cars then a 100k kms 2nd hand M makes sense to play with... My 2c. :thumbs:

 

[TurboLlew]

Most of the cars that have broken (locally and elsewhere) are making lots and lots of power. Not just JB4 and basics power... 600wkw+ and 1200Nm+

You can read my thread to see what I've done (and needed to have done). I am way past 100000km now. Daily driven. Plenty of long trips.

The only annoying thing for me has been the turbo coolant lines which can develop small leaks that cause you to smell vaporised coolant.

I've had clutches, brakes and suspension changed under plan which are probably the biggest items. Apart from the suspension (I would go with KW), I wouldn't have a problem doing these items out of plan either way.

If you are just out of plan and something goes badly wrong (and you have had the car for a good few years) they will goodwill even things like motors and gearboxes (or go 50/50).

@Veteran they are very reliable and moddable, but there are also plenty of broken 6 and 7Rs at the higher power levels I assure you :roflol: I also know of one person who broke his 7.5R 2 weeks after taking delivery... doesn't mean they are all bad.

Regarding value, you can have a 400wkw daily drive that (at that power level) is very reliable for under R500K. Jekyll and Hyde - it will cossett you in luxury and then become a complete animal if you need it to. There's nothing like it. Reality is that a 5 series of any kind is going to drop in value like a stone (second only to a 7er) regardless of whether it has plan or not. It is a big-car thing. An M5 is not likely to drop much further very rapidly at least.

If my motor breaks (I've done a health check at the last service and all seems well) and it costs even R200K to rebuild or BMW gives me a 50/50 goodwill on one, then I would do it. However do what everyone says and check oil religiously, do your 'phantom' oil service in between and pay cash if you plan on keeping the car out of plan. We can talk about modded cars or reliability or imagine that others are not spending tons of money building and rebuilding, but if you have really thrown money into trash like I have over the years, you will really appreciate an OEM motor that can do 150000km+ in a car that can make 400wkw all day long (or 500 LOL) for 'only' R200-250K.

The anecdotes of 30000km motor breaking and a broken gearbox just out of plan are just that... anecdotes. One or two stories doesn't make it crap. The polished and curated tuner posts of other manufacturers also don't mean anything (we have all seen the BS posts - '350kw daily safe tune... next time we will run even faster on the race file' after having broken a record, no evidence of anything ever breaking... customers pressurised into silence or taken on by the fanboys of the tuner... I've been there.)

This platform is now old... if it was this big of a disaster you would not find it repeated in the current gen. You would also have the internet full of complaints and subsequently fixes as with the E6x. If you have resorted to calling into 702 for an issue, then chances are you have no support system and you NEED ONE for a car like this, be it at a switched on dealer OR a place like TuneTech. This goes for any special car from any manufacturer.

Last is that these cars are extremely complex (as are all cars today). Learn about them... the physical and the software... so that nobody can BS you. If I read a thread like this, I would probably not have bought one. However many many km later, I am glad I did. It has become a trusted and reliable friend and actually I think I love it as much as I did my S2000. I couldn't imagine not having it in my garage.

 

[Tander]

Thank you to everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it.
This wouldn't be a toy for me and I would want to keep it for the foreseeable future. So, resale value means nothing to me.

I'm just about to pay off my current car after owning it for 6 years (Seat Leon Cupra) and if anyone knows anything about modded VAG cars is that they can be unreliable. Thankfully, my Cupra seems to have beaten the odds, no major issues. I had to pull the turbo last year and get seals redone, that was the biggest issue.

The Cupra is also staying in my garage, I just love that car.

The M5 would be daily driven and my plan would be to also get an advanced driving course done with it, so I know how to handle it. Never driven a RWD for any length of time, nor one with anything near this amount of power.

@TurboLlew - Thank you for your incredibly detailed and informative post. I my heart is still set on this variant of the M5. I don't need a modded one or need to mod the one I get - current car is 200wkw - so this M5 will be a major step up in power. I also am not the type that needs the fastest car out there - in the Seat community there are guys running cars at 300wkw and that comes with its own set of problems. Not for me.

Now I just need to keep an eye out for a decent one. There don't seem to be that many on the market at the moment that are newer than 2014

@TurboLlew - What does a clutch cost to change? And brakes?

You mentioned KW for suspension - isn't the standard suspension enough on these cars?

 

[telegamer]

I’m happy with my M5, won’t sell , what do I replace it with , new F80, at way more money, no , maybe a M6, but as a daily you’ll enjoy it, just don’t worry about fuel too much , it’ll be expensive...happy hunting

 

[TurboLlew]

I will get the prices from my files and post up for you.

The suspension is perfectly fine for the most part... but KW would have been my preference if spending alot of money on suspension. I've done AC Schnitzer springs and the competition pack front and rear sway bars. These reduced body roll (what there was anyway) noticeably. When I eventually get round to buying an F90 it will definitely be a comp pack car.

Meant to also let you know the rest of the LCI differences (Almost all except the headlights and CP steering rack can be retrofitted)

Front lights (Adaptive LED cannot easily be retrofitted and if you do, it is at great cost or you can get Umnitza replacements and code out the errors)
Rear lights - darker & the third horizontal element continues into the sides (can be retrofitted but not worth the cost)
iDrive touch (can be retrofitted with TBX module and touch controller)
Central display surround changed (it is not a bigger screen - the surround can be changed)
Song list in Heads up display (Can be coded on pre LCI)
Double slat grilles
Steering wheel (this is a relatively expensive retrofit even if you find a used airbag module, but worth it IMHO - Pre LCI wheel is dated).
I think 2015s have electronic wastegates

 

[Tander]

I will get the prices from my files and post up for you.

The suspension is perfectly fine for the most part... but KW would have been my preference if spending alot of money on suspension. I've done AC Schnitzer springs and the competition pack front and rear sway bars. These reduced body roll (what there was anyway) noticeably. When I eventually get round to buying an F90 it will definitely be a comp pack car.

Meant to also let you know the rest of the LCI differences (Almost all except the headlights and CP steering rack can be retrofitted)

Front lights (Adaptive LED cannot easily be retrofitted and if you do, it is at great cost or you can get Umnitza replacements and code out the errors)
Rear lights - darker & the third horizontal element continues into the sides (can be retrofitted but not worth the cost)
iDrive touch (can be retrofitted with TBX module and touch controller)
Central display surround changed (it is not a bigger screen - the surround can be changed)
Song list in Heads up display (Can be coded on pre LCI)
Double slat grilles
Steering wheel (this is a relatively expensive retrofit even if you find a used airbag module, but worth it IMHO - Pre LCI wheel is dated).
I think 2015s have electronic wastegates

Thanks for that - well I will just keep an eye out for a well specced 2014/5 model - easier than trying to retrofit. Agreed with the 2013 < steering wheels, very dated and puts me off those year models.

I did see a couple of F10 M5 Comp cars for sale around the 800k mark. But not many on the market, saw like two.

 

[Kolbe]

I will get the prices from my files and post up for you.

The suspension is perfectly fine for the most part... but KW would have been my preference if spending alot of money on suspension. I've done AC Schnitzer springs and the competition pack front and rear sway bars. These reduced body roll (what there was anyway) noticeably. When I eventually get round to buying an F90 it will definitely be a comp pack car.

Meant to also let you know the rest of the LCI differences (Almost all except the headlights and CP steering rack can be retrofitted)

Front lights (Adaptive LED cannot easily be retrofitted and if you do, it is at great cost or you can get Umnitza replacements and code out the errors)
Rear lights - darker & the third horizontal element continues into the sides (can be retrofitted but not worth the cost)
iDrive touch (can be retrofitted with TBX module and touch controller)
Central display surround changed (it is not a bigger screen - the surround can be changed)
Song list in Heads up display (Can be coded on pre LCI)
Double slat grilles
Steering wheel (this is a relatively expensive retrofit even if you find a used airbag module, but worth it IMHO - Pre LCI wheel is dated).
I think 2015s have electronic wastegates

I don't think that the F10M5 S64TU engine ever came out with electronic wastegates? I've worked on a few post 2014 ones - all with pneumatic control.

 

[stev0]

I've just taken delivery of my '12 Saphire back F10 and I'm as happy as a pig in sh1t. Sure the thing is expensive and I had my head fight me over buying a new or newer car but If you have always wanted one, just pull the trigger.

I understand the thing is 6 years old. It will have issues. Motorplan replaced the motor 6k km ago (dreaded cylinder sleeve issue) and im sitting at 58k km, a few other bits and bobs have been done too.

Nothing on the road is quite like the big 5. It's a bully on the streets and exactly a Jekyll and hyde. I can have it in, efficiency - comfort - comfort and return 11l/100km or I can flat foot it, have it snake down the highway at 180kph trying to kill me. Either way, there is little available with 400kw that will give you granpa comfort to road rage in a matter of seconds.

 

[Ash_Jhb]

I've just taken delivery of my '12 Saphire back F10 and I'm as happy as a pig in sh1t. Sure the thing is expensive and I had my head fight me over buying a new or newer car but If you have always wanted one, just pull the trigger.

I understand the thing is 6 years old. It will have issues. Motorplan replaced the motor 6k km ago (dreaded cylinder sleeve issue) and im sitting at 58k km, a few other bits and bobs have been done too.

Nothing on the road is quite like the big 5. It's a bully on the streets and exactly a Jekyll and hyde. I can have it in, efficiency - comfort - comfort and return 11l/100km or I can flat foot it, have it snake down the highway at 180kph trying to kill me. Either way, there is little available with 400kw that will give you granpa comfort to road rage in a matter of seconds.

So true. I’m with you.


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