Engine cuts out

L

Loom

Member
The short:
E36 323i engine sometimes cuts out under acceleration. Sometimes it completely dies.

The long:
Before this problem started I had the codes read and the O2 sensors, MAF and throttle something came up. The last two could be due to my unplugging the MAF and the throttle position sensor (?). The O2 sensors were cleaned at a Bosch service centre. Unfortunately I haven't had the codes read since. I've got an OBD/ADS reader since and will do it once I get the software up and running.

Sometimes the revs would hunt.

The car overheated due to coolant loss - the expansion tank's cap was not properly closed. It was in start/stop traffic and I pulled over when noticing it. I was monitoring the temperature gauge and don't think it had been overheating for a long time when I noticed it. The needle was already in the red but not at the "end" line. I filled it with all the water I had on me and drove 100m or so before stopping again. Got some more water from a kind motorist and drove another couple of 100m before it reached red again. I couldn't stop immediately and tried to "free" to the nearest suitable pull over point but unfortunately the needle almost reached the "end" line. Got more water and filled and bled the system. It got me to my destination without further overheating.

The next day the hunting revs were much worse, to the extent that the engine almost died when idling. I eventually unplugged the MAF and while it still ran crappy it progressively got better to the point that I thought the hunting revs problem was solved, or rather, pinpointed. Unfortunately it started to reoccur, although infrequently. The last time it happened the engine died when idling. It also had a strong exhaust fume smell. It does not smell like sulphur, though.

I've checked the ignition coils and all seem fine. Four of the six spark plugs were oil fouled and one looked like it had burned on oil deposits. Two of the coil boots were damaged by the oil contamination but only at the very bottom end. I got new spark plugs and a valve cover gasket as well as the valve cover bolt seals. There are no other external signs of oil leaks.

Oil and coolant levels stay normal. There are no signs of oil/coolant contamination on the dip stick, under the oil cap or under the expansion tank cap.

I'm planning to do the following:
  • read codes
  • replace valve cover gasket (VCG)
  • check for head gasket failure - compression test; cylinder leak down/block test; exhaust gas in coolant analysis

My question is: should I replace the valve cover gasket first or have the head gasket tests done first? I don't want to replace the VCG if it has to be replaced again due to a head gasket failure. On the other hand, would a leaking VCG skew a compression test?

Also, what would cause the engine to cut out? O2 sensors? Head gasket? VCG? Perhaps a combination of these? The car starts fine and never seems to run on less than 6 cylinders.
 
moranor@axis

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
sounds to me you could have had Vanos seal problems then you cooked them some more when it overheated... I would start with a VCG replacement with Vanos seals...
 
moranor@axis

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
you going to DIY?

I have the:
seals R 320
Rattle repair kit R 320
Rattle repair tool R 160
in stock

do not have the timing tool... but you can take the car to Racing snake for install he has the timing tools and the Rattle repair tool...

Im hoping the cutting out is being caused by the oil in the plugs (VCG should fix this) while you in there you may as well do the seals...

Its a starting point anyway and not very expensive... be sure to see what codes come up do a compression test also...
 
L

Loom

Member
Yeah still wondering about the cutting out but may just as well do the Vanos seals while at it. From Beisan's site it seems that the VCG does not need to be replaced everytime the cover is removed, so I can do that now even if the head gasket needs to be replaced later.

Unfortunately I'm in Potchefstroom so probably won't be able to pay Racing snake a visit.

There's no rattle so I don't think the rattle repair kit is necessary.

Still struggling to get EDIABAS working on an XP VM on a Win 7 laptop so might end up hauling the PC to the car.
 
moranor@axis

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
replace VCG 1st before vanos seals if you have to... if you take the cover off now its going to leak like crazy if you try refit it...
 
racing snake

racing snake

New member
when does the cutting out occur? all the time or mainly when the motor is at running temp?
also...
is there a loss of power from the motor?
 
L

Loom

Member
Hmmmm, I hardly ever accelerate hard when the engine is not yet warmed up so I can't really tell. I would guess that's it mainly at warm temperatures.

I only bought the car in March/April last year so I don't have a benchmark but except from the cutting out there's no loss in power. It would sometimes bog and surge when coasting to a stop, however, it did that before the overheating.
 
moranor@axis

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
the surging ect can be the Vanos but I dont think it can really get bad enough to make the engine die completely...
 
L

Loom

Member
OK, this morning I did some moderate acceleration up to about 3700 RPM at cold engine temperatures and it did not cut out. It does not really say anything since the cutting out does not always happen at warm engine temperatures, either.

The hunting revs doesn't care about temperature and happens even when starting a cold engine.
 
L

Loom

Member
Just to double check, should I replace the VCG first before doing the compression and cylinder leak down tests?
 
L

Loom

Member
Thanks, I was not sure if the VCG leaking at the spark plug would cause erroneous compression test readings.
 
L

Loom

Member
Just did compression tests:
Dry:
6 5 4 3 2 1
165 165 145 160 160 170

Wet:
190 195 190 185 195 185

What does that tell me about cylinder 4? Worn piston rings?

Car does not smoke but I've noticed a slight drop in coolant today.

Should I have any further tests done?

Thanks, racing snake. Where are you based?

Edit:
I've just realised I forgot to depress the accelerator pedal :facepalm: I did repeat the test on cylinder 4 and cranked it for even longer the second time but it yielded the same result.
 
L

Loom

Member
OK, I had a cylinder leak down test done and read the error codes. According to the mechanic who did the leak down test there's no problem.

I also took it to another mechanic who says he can hear a vacuum leak.

It was a real pain getting INPA up and running. I'll post a how to when I get a chance to hopefully help someone else struggling with the same issue. The cable I used has a switch for OBD and ADS. From what I've read my car is ADS but I had it on OBD first as I was struggling with the setup.

Anyway, here are the results. All readings were done with the ignition turned to the second position, i.e. all instrument cluster lights on.


Test 1; switch at OBD:
Code: 
== E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T -------------------------------------
Date: 01/28/13 17:52:13 ECU: ZAE2 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: ZAE2-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 1 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
3 Supply voltage
Error frequency : 3
Remain under limiting value ===========================================================
== E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T -------------------------------------
Date: 01/28/13 17:52:14 ECU: EWS JobStatus: OKAY Variant: EWS
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 5 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
3 toleration of changing code increased with key # 0
Error frequency : 2
Sporadic error-------------------------------------------------------------
255 general reset
Error frequency : 31
Static error-------------------------------------------------------------
15 power on reset
Error frequency : 31
Static error-------------------------------------------------------------
1 wrong password with key # 0
Error frequency : 2
Sporadic error-------------------------------------------------------------
0 wrong key identification with key # 0
Error frequency : 1
Sporadic error
===========================================================
== E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
 -------------------------------------
Date: 01/28/13 17:52:15 ECU: ABSMK4G JobStatus: OKAY Variant: ABSMK4G
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 3 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
184 switch off by hardware
Error frequency : 0
Vehicle speed 0.00 km/h 
ABS-control not active
 brake lights switch not actuated 
low power supply detected
 -------------------------------------------------------------
113 wheel sensor front left start up detection
Error frequency : 1
Vehicle speed 0.00 km/h
 ABS-control not active 
brake lights switch not actuated
 low power supply not detected
 -------------------------------------------------------------
114 wheel sensor front right start up detection
Error frequency : 1
Vehicle speed 0.00 km/h 
ABS-control not active
 brake lights switch not actuated
 low power supply not detected ===========================================================
== E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T -------------------------------------
Date: 01/28/13 17:52:18 ECU: MS410DS3 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: MS410DS3
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 6 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
12 Throttle valve potentiometer
Error frequency : 255 Logistic counter: 37
Engine speed 2016.00 rpm
 engine load 136.18 mg/Stroke 
Engine temperature 90.96 degrees C 
Throttle-valve angle 115.74 throttle degrees
Short circuit to batt+
 emission related malfunction
 defect code stored after filtering
 Error not present

Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
200 oxygen sensor voltage rise 1
Error frequency : 31 Logistic counter: 37
Engine speed 3008.00 rpm
 oxygen sensor voltage (rich) 4768.00 Volt 
oxygen sensor heater 8.99 % 
oxygen sensor voltage 1 3.18 Volt
emission related malfunction 
emission related malfunction
 defect code stored after filtering
 Error not present 
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
10 Temperature sensor Engine temperature
Error frequency : 17 Logistic counter: 13
Engine speed 1312.00 rpm
 engine load 70.81 mg/Stroke
 Intake air temperature 58.84 degrees C 
Engine temperature -36.05 degrees C
Short circuit to ground 
emission related malfunction 
defect code stored after filtering
 Error not present
 Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
8 air mass flow meter
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 32
Engine speed 672.00 rpm Throttle-valve angle 0.00 throttle degrees Idle adjuster 13.28 % voltage of the air mass flow meter 0.10 Volt
interrupt
 emission related malfunction
 defect code stored after filtering 
Error not present
 Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
202 fuel trim limit Bank 1
Error frequency : 16 Logistic counter: 15
Engine speed 736.00 rpm Engine temperature 96.94 degrees C oxygen sensor heater 82.11 % oxygen sensor voltage 1 2.59 Volt
Short circuit to ground emission related malfunction defect code stored after filtering Error not present
Sporadic error-------------------------------------------------------------
203 fuel trim limit Bank 2
Error frequency : 7 Logistic counter: 15
Engine speed 3168.00 rpm Engine temperature 84.24 degrees C oxygen sensor heater 15.25 % oxygen sensor voltage 2 1.69 Volt
Short circuit to ground emission related malfunction defect code stored after filtering Error not present Sporadic error =============================================================

Cleared the codes and went for a 60 km trip with the rev counter (and speedo) all over the spectrum and a calm cooldown back in town. :rollsmile:

Test 2; OBD:

Code: 
           E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:02:44 ECU:       ABSMK4G JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   ABSMK4G
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    3 errors in error memory !-------------------------------------------------------------
184   switch off by hardware
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h   
ABS-control not active                     
 brake lights switch not actuated           
 low power supply detected                -------------------------------------------------------------
113   wheel sensor front left start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h   ABS-control not active                      brake lights switch not actuated            low power supply not detected            -------------------------------------------------------------
114   wheel sensor front right start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h   ABS-control not active                      brake lights switch not actuated            low power supply not detected            =============================================================           E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:02:47 ECU:       MS410DS3 JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   MS410DS3-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    2 errors in error memory !-------------------------------------------------------------
12    Throttle valve potentiometer
Error frequency : 20 Logistic counter: 40
   Engine speed                              1408.00  rpm  
 engine load                                 65.37  mg/Stroke   
Engine temperature                          77.51  degrees C   
Throttle-valve angle                       117.15  throttle degrees

   Short circuit to batt+   
emission related malfunction  
 defect code stored after filtering  
 Error not present   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
200   oxygen sensor voltage rise 1
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 40
   Engine speed                              2624.00  rpm   oxygen sensor voltage (rich)              5120.00  Volt   oxygen sensor heater                        26.20  %   oxygen sensor voltage 1                      3.41  Volt
   emission related malfunction   emission related malfunction   defect code stored after filtering   Error present   Static error =============================================================

Test 3; ADS: After this I realised that the switch is on OBD so I cleared the errors and read the codes with the switch on ADS:

Code: 
RESULT:    5 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
16    error tank capacity indicator
   Invalid working area   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
26    error injection sensor
   Short circuit to batt+   Sporadic erro
r-------------------------------------------------------------
24    error speedometer signal
   Invalid working area   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
25    error engine speed sensor
   Open circuit   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
17    error coolant temperature gauge
   Invalid working area   Sporadic error 
   ============================================================= 
          E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           
		  -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:09:07 ECU:       ABSMK4G JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   ABSMK4G
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    3 errors in error memory 
!-------------------------------------------------------------
184   switch off by hardware
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                  
    brake lights switch not actuated        
    low power supply detected
                -------------------------------------------------------------
113   wheel sensor front left start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                  
    brake lights switch not actuated        
    low power supply not detected
            -------------------------------------------------------------
114   wheel sensor front right start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                 
     brake lights switch not actuated        
    low power supply not detected            
	============================================================= 
          E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           
		  -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:09:09 ECU:       ZKE4 JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   ZKE4
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    5 errors in error memory 
!-------------------------------------------------------------
0     Unknown error location
Error frequency : 1
   Sporadic erro
r-------------------------------------------------------------
62    Thermo switch FH FT active or Motor Pulse generator
Error frequency : 1
   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
11    FT: Aggregate or Open circuit
Error frequency : 1
   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
15    HK: Aggregate or Open circuit
Error frequency : 1
   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
37    DWA-LED or Cable DWAL Open circuit or Short circuit to ground
Error frequency : 1
   Sporadic error
 =============================================================       
    E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           
	-------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:09:15 ECU:       BC_V JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   BC_V
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    6 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
5     alarm horn output (relaisbox)
Error frequency : 255
   Open circuit
   Sporadic error
   Error present
-------------------------------------------------------------
13    hood/radio - sensoring hood-/radio-contact
Error frequency : 255
   Invalid working area
   Static error
   Error present
-------------------------------------------------------------
7     temperature input - outside temperature sensor
Error frequency : 0
   Invalid working area
   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
2     chime T2 output
Error frequency : 0
   Open circuit 
  Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
3     chime T1 output
Error frequency : 0
   Open circuit
   Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
6     timer output
Error frequency : 0
   Short circuit to ground
   Sporadic error
 =============================

Test 4; ADS: Cleared the errors and immediately read it again to see what comes up:

Code: 
           E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           
		   -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:13:41 ECU:       ABSMK4G JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   ABSMK4G
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    3 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
184   switch off by hardware
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                   
   brake lights switch not actuated         
   low power supply detected                
   -------------------------------------------------------------
113   wheel sensor front left start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                   
   brake lights switch not actuated          
   low power supply not detected            
   -------------------------------------------------------------
114   wheel sensor front right start up detection
Error frequency : 0
   Vehicle speed                                0.00  km/h
   ABS-control not active                    
   brake lights switch not actuated          
   low power supply not detected           
   =============================================================
   E R R O R   M E M O R Y   R E P O R T           
   -------------------------------------
Date:      01/28/13 21:13:48 ECU:       BC_V JobStatus: OKAY Variant:   BC_V
-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT:    2 errors in error memory !
-------------------------------------------------------------
5     alarm horn output (relaisbox)
Error frequency : 255
   Open circuit   
   Static error   
   Error present
   -------------------------------------------------------------
13    hood/radio - sensoring hood-/radio-contact

Error frequency : 255
   Invalid working area   
   Static error   
   Error present 
   =============================================================

I'm not surprised at getting the initial MAF and O2-sensor faults as they were both plugged out before.

It seems that 202 fuel trim limit Bank 1 and 203 fuel trim limit Bank 2 is related to the O2-sensors.

So 12 Throttle valve potentiometer popped up after the codes had been cleared.2 Could that be a physical potentiometer (or the idle control valve?) or also be related to the other codes?

What do these ADS codes mean:
62 Thermo switch FH FT active or Motor Pulse generator
Error frequency : 1
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
11 FT: Aggregate or Open circuit
Error frequency : 1
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
15 HK: Aggregate or Open circuit
Error frequency : 1
Sporadic error
-------------------------------------------------------------
37 DWA-LED or Cable DWAL Open circuit or Short circuit to ground
Error frequency : 1
Sporadic error

What's up with 113/114 wheel sensor front left/right start up detection?

So I think I should check for vacuum leaks before replacing any sensors as a leak could give false positives on MAF and O2 codes, right? I've sprayed about 500ml of carb cleaner all over the hoses and on top of inlet manifold as well as from the side underneath the inlet manifold with no effect. It sounds as if the most prominent suction type noise comes from the where the CCV is as well as underneath the inlet manifold at the back of the engine.

Should I take off the inlet manifold and visually inspect all hoses or is there a better way? I'll clean the ICV and CCV as well while at it.

I would appreciate any advice :thumbs:
 
moranor@axis

moranor@axis

///Member
Official Advertiser
If you dont know how old the intake pipes are just replace all that rubber... then you know its good :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Liam H
technical N55 pcv failure?
Replies
9
Views
770
Liam H
Liam H
K
E90 diesel engine seized/timing chain
Replies
17
Views
1K
KingJonesXV
K
M
Advice: E90 330/335
2
Replies
21
Views
7K
Nishcat_M140i
Nishcat_M140i
K
For Sale: B48 Engine over
Replies
3
Views
418
cRed001
C
D
F80 M3 Tappet Cover Replacement
Replies
2
Views
323
DavidV
D
Top