BMW M52 Noisy Hydralic Lifters

[bmw328]

Hello Peeps,

Im having a weird problem for a while now.

On cold start up, the Engine oil light will stay lit for a few seconds, go off. The hydralic lifters will sound horribly loud intill oil reasches the lifters and get quiter.

But I can clearly hear the lifters ticking away, drives me nuts.

X Scenario 1,
Had the oil Changes:
Castrol magnatec, Lique Moly, Shell helix engine oil,
Tried thick oils, thin oils, no differance.

X Scenario 2, (Oil pressure)
Changed the main bearings, big ends and changed the oil pump
, Changed the oil filter housing aswell.
No differance

Scenario 3,
Changed the hidralic lifters, with a spare set i had laying around.
No differance

X Im thinking of changing the cams, cam boxes. Perhaps they are worn?
X Perhaps the spare set of lifters a failty too?
X I also suspect that a failty oil pump, oil pump pickup gasket, may cause the oil to leak back into the sump, then standing still for long.
That might explain why the oil light wil stay on when i start the car up at cold. If i drive the car for a while, switch it of, leave it for a few minutes and start it again, the oil light will go off immediatly at startup.

PS the car is being regularly services.

 

[zabbo]

Funny enough, mine are loud now too after standing for a while but I don't have the oil light issue.

I have just had the engine done and replaced the cams so I don't think changing the cams will sort out your problem.

I also only use Castrol Magnatec and for some reason I don't recall it being a problem with the GTX.

I have previously had the issue of noisy lifters when I was using Liqui Moly and then the problem was sorted when I switched back to Castrol.

 

[Raybimmer]

My M50 (325i ) has noisy lifters especially as I only start it once a month or so . The M52 ( 328i ) is my daily ride and has no problems .
Does the noise occur on every start up irrespective of the engine temperature ? Does the oil light come on and stay on a while at every start ( hot or cold engine ) if the car has stood a while , say an hour or so ?

 

[Diablo Jnr]

Could be faulty oil pump, especially considering the oil light stays on for that long, have it checked out. Worse case, need to replace your lifters, think they around R180 each :thumbdo:

 

[bmw328]

My M50 (325i ) has noisy lifters especially as I only start it once a month or so . The M52 ( 328i ) is my daily ride and has no problems .
Does the noise occur on every start up irrespective of the engine temperature ? Does the oil light come on and stay on a while at every start ( hot or cold engine ) if the car has stood a while , say an hour or so ?

The hydralic lifter sound normal at start up, the oil light only comes on if the car has been standing for a while (hot or cold), if you switch the car off after driving a while, and start it like 5 to 10 min afterwards the oil light will go off at startup.

It is like the oil drains back to the oilpan if its been standing a while. And if you start if after a long while, it has to build up oil pressure from scratch?

 

[bmw328]

Hello All!!!!!!!!

Problem NOT solved Yet!!!!!,

While I was busy respraying the Car, I had the Engine & Transmission removed (Color Change).

I decided to have the oil-pump, mains & Big-ends changed again. Tried to find a NEW OIL PUMP (Was prepared to pay a horrible amount, but apparently you don't get after-market oil pumps for the M50/M52 W.T.F) :argh:

So

Anyway, Bought a complete engine with BMW sickness (Cracked Head)
Used that engines Pump with the NEW big-ends & Main bearing.

To my surprise the OLD MAINS & BIG-ENDS was fine!!!!!!

After Replacing the OIL PUMP and BEARINGS AGAIN, It still got the problem of the OIL light staying on for a few seconds after cold start!!!!

So I Think its Save to rule out Sub assembly?

O ja, I Think I must just give u guys a brief description of the Engine, Transmission & Differential because its all BUILD-UP.

Engine:
M50 1991 525i Cast Iron Engine Block,
M52 1998 Crank, Pistons & Conrods (From Alliminium block)
M52 1998 Oil Pump (Tried them all: M50...)
M50 325 1992 Cylinder head (Ports enlarged, 328I Valves @ Valve-springs fitted.
M52 1998 328i Cams with M50 Camboxes.
Fuel management is Stock 1998 328I with its Lamba sensors & injectors.
Wildcat Branches with normal 1998 328I Exhaust system (DECAT)

Transmission:
1998 323I Manual Box
1998 328I Flywheel, Pressure Plate & Clutch

Differential:
1998 Stock 2.93 Diff

So now you guys know my setup, Any advice will be appreciated.

Because my next move will be to CHANGE the CAM-BOXES with Matching CAMS, Main & Secondary Chain tensioners, Main & Secondary Chains, (Had them replaced before) & Last but not least VANOS UNIT!!!!!!!!

 

[moranor@axis]

i would do the vanos 1st because it will be cheaper than the other work you mentioned... try listen to the vanos with a long screwdriver to the ear if you can hear the noise there i would definitely do the vanos 1st...

Vanos Rattle
Vanos seals

 

[bmw328]

i would do the vanos 1st because it will be cheaper than the other work you mentioned... try listen to the vanos with a long screwdriver to the ear if you can hear the noise there i would definitely do the vanos 1st...

Vanos Rattle
Vanos seals

Hello, Thanks for the reply. I have changed the Vanos unit @ It doesn't make a difference. It sounds more like its all the hidralic lifters making a rakket in there. I was thinking of changing the whole drive train in total with a complete set from another engine, not just one component at a time.

 

[moranor@axis]

i would do the vanos 1st because it will be cheaper than the other work you mentioned... try listen to the vanos with a long screwdriver to the ear if you can hear the noise there i would definitely do the vanos 1st...

Vanos Rattle
Vanos seals

Hello, Thanks for the reply. I have changed the Vanos unit @ It doesn't make a difference. It sounds more like its all the hidralic lifters making a rakket in there. I was thinking of changing the whole drive train in total with a complete set from another engine, not just one component at a time.

are you sure its not hypochondria? coz damn you have changed almost everything :rollsmile:

 

[bmw328]

i would do the vanos 1st because it will be cheaper than the other work you mentioned... try listen to the vanos with a long screwdriver to the ear if you can hear the noise there i would definitely do the vanos 1st...

Vanos Rattle
Vanos seals

Hello, Thanks for the reply. I have changed the Vanos unit @ It doesn't make a difference. It sounds more like its all the hidralic lifters making a rakket in there. I was thinking of changing the whole drive train in total with a complete set from another engine, not just one component at a time.

are you sure its not hypochondria? coz damn you have changed almost everything :rollsmile:

raise: I Don't know, LOL. I was thinking of changing the whole damm think with a Japanise Import M52B28 BUT, Then I will never know what the story with this motor is? PS. The Car is not giving any Issues, I must have done 50 000KM with the car since the, LIGHT of doom has started taking longer to go off. And she still goes strong, Only damm annoying engine rakket!!!!!. (PS, Changed the OIL PRESSURE SENSOR WITH OIL FILTER & HOUSING TOO)

 

[moranor@axis]

the thing is... does it really make sense to replace the engine now when its still running?

is there no one close to you that can give it a listen?

failing that what about some sort of pump that can get some oil up before it starts...

 

[bmw328]

the thing is... does it really make sense to replace the engine now when its still running?

is there no one close to you that can give it a listen?

failing that what about some sort of pump that can get some oil up before it starts...

This is the scary part, I did take is too a few guys.
* 1st Guy told me that my hydralic lifter sound normal & that he have heard wors + that he recommend flashing my engine with 5L diesel while the engine is running, apparently the diesel cleans the lifter ect.... (Don't think so)

* 2Guy told me that the bearings are shot & that i need to replace the oilpump and bearing, get the Crank checked. Did this more than once.
(NOT the :argh: crank, nor pump, nor bearings)

* Everybody els is like raise:

* Im anyway more of a DIY type of GUY, If had endless headaches with mechanics & almost always have to fix it properly afterwards.
PS. I've build the CAR up from a shell, so I know my little project best?

 

[moranor@axis]

well i guess you may as well play the cams then i dont know what else would help... i dont have high hopes that it will fix your problem though

maybe someone will pop in what a brain wave that will explain everything

 

[bmw328]

well i guess you may as well play the cams then i dont know what else would help... i dont have high hopes that it will fix your problem though

maybe someone will pop in what a brain wave that will explain everything

Well I certainly hope so, Because I hate it that my car sound's like a DIESEL car, No offence to diesel car drivers! :roflol:

 

[Dippies]

My 316I had the same problem and you could hear the Hydraulic Lifters and a few months afterwards the engin ceased.

The told me its the oil pump, that failed... Maybe you have the same problem.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[bmw328]

Bump

 

[moranor@axis]

dont think anyone knows sorry

 

[slowe30]

Are you able to check oil pressure? Could give you a pretty clear indication of where the problem is not.

 

[Major]

OK, you've already done a crapload of stuff but here's a list of things I think are worth trying in no particular order. First of all, with all the money you've spent you could've gotten an oil pressure gauge and do some real troubleshooting (not guessing), and secondly the owners manual says a brief oil pressure light at idle on startup is normal, but it must go away immediately if engine speed increases. Anyway:

• Make sure you aren't just low on oil
• Buy an oil gauge
• If that reports 10psi at idle or so, you're fine, lower than that and closer to 6psi, not fine
• Replace the oil pressure sensor/switch to rule it out as being faulty
• Make sure you're using the right oil weight, not necessarily the right oil brand (which seems to be an obsession on this forum)
• Old or clogged oil filter, replace it
• Something clogging the channels from the oil filter housing to the block and head
• Check that the oil pump pickup tube isn't cracked, as this would introduce air, poor pressure buildup, and a noisy head, as much as a low oil level would do

I think that about covers oil pressure issues. I can't ignore the fact that you have a possible low oil pressure issue (or slightly lower than it used to be) and a noisy head, they would be related if your oil pressure wasn't up to snuff. As for your noisy head:

• If your lifters aren't new, it's worth checking the clearance between them and the cam lobes when the valves are closed. There must be no gap!
• Something you haven't tried it seems, and you might laugh, but replacing the spark plugs, as they sometimes do sound like a noisy lifter apparently, if they loosen up.
• Possibly main chain tensioner considering what you've replaced already, and you can steal one from an M3

 

[bmw328]

Hello Major, Thank u for your response!!!, I appreciate it a lot! raise:
Please see comments I made in underneath.
Make sure you aren't just low on oil
(Check it regularly, even went as far as changing the whole sump & dipstick with dipstick tube to make sure its fine!!!)
Buy an oil gauge
On my TO DO LIST NEXT... :=):
If that reports 10psi at idle or so, you're fine, lower than that and closer to 6psi, not fine
On my TO DO LIST NEXT... :=):
Replace the oil pressure sensor/switch to rule it out as being faulty
Have a whole box full of oil pressure sensors I already changed...
Make sure you're using the right oil weight, not necessarily the right oil brand (which seems to be an obsession on this forum)
What do u recommend I use? I'm currently using Castrol Magnatec (Agents & other BMW service guys recommended it) If even used SHELL HELEX diesel engine oil in it (Surprisingly better luck with the oil light with that, goes out quicker, But it was a VERY VERY VERY thick type of oil! so I changed back to Castrol Magnatec)
Old or clogged oil filter, replace it
Did it, I change it every time I change the engine oil, That's a-lot, because I constantly try something els.
Something clogging the channels from the oil filter housing to the block and head
Now you're talking!!! Suspected something like that myself!! Maybe even a problem with ether Cylinder head gasket, Cylinder head or Cylinder block.
The block was out of operation for almost 10 years when I dismantled it, build it up (Engine had horrible damage to it, all aluminum casing was ether smashed or broken from engine) Had block engineered, ALL casings replaced by new ones.
Check that the oil pump pickup tube isn't cracked, as this would introduce air, poor pressure buildup, and a noisy head, as much as a low oil level would do
That is the only component that I did NOT replace, Did an check on it there was no visible damage, cracks on it. (Might even be the angle it lies in the samp?) WILL REPLACE THE WHOLE THING WITH THE OIL PUMP)

If your lifters aren't new, it's worth checking the clearance between them and the cam lobes when the valves are closed. There must be no gap!
Thanks for the TIP, will check it also, PS can I use a filler gauge?
Something you haven't tried it seems, and you might laugh, but replacing the spark plugs, as they sometimes do sound like a noisy lifter apparently, if they loosen up.
I changed those also, no difference.
Possibly main chain tensioner considering what you've replaced already, and you can steal one from an M3
Also next on my to do list.

There is ONE new symptom that concerns me.
(I'm not using the car as much & most of the time its just standing, perhaps driving it once a week at weekends for 100KM)
When starting, it SOMETIMES gives out a puff of smoke, does seem to be consuming oil now) Think it might be the oil separator valve, valve stems seals.
Does also smoke a little bit when I drive it hard!!!

I was thinking of pulling the engine AGAIN, but this time starting from Scratch, Taking the block to be bored to .50 oversize pistons & Checked. Taking the head to be resurface & Checked again. Getting NEW con-rods & pistons.

Starting from NEW?