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BMW M52 Noisy Hydralic Lifters
- Thread starter bmw328
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bmw328
Member
Jon328i said:
Hello Jon, Please Note that my Oil Light does not stay on, It only stays on for a few seconds if the car has been standing for a few hours. Normal operating temperature the oil light goes out immediatly after start. The Oil seperator valve is usually the cause for oil loss & smoke!!
bmw328
Member
Hello & Thanks to all that replied,
I've solved the cars oil pressure issue & Noisy Hydraulic Lifters.
I've replaced the following items:
Now that the engine is running silent, I turned to the recent new symptom (Car drinks oil & only smokes blue-grey smoke on mid to high revs.)
Changed the (CCV - Oil Seperator Valve) but car still consumes oil & smokes on Occasions.
While the cam boxes was out, I checked the valve springs for movement (Checking if all the Valve guides are in good condition) What a surprise the had unacceptable play) - Head needs overhaul.
Checked Cylinder compression as well: (Car has very slight miss on cyl 6 at idle)
Normal Check Wet Check (Oil)
Cylinder 1 1200 1400
Cylinder 2 1250 1450
Cylinder 3 1250 1450
Cylinder 4 1250 1450
Cylinder 5 1200 1400
Cylinder 6 900 1400
Somethings up with cylinder 6, Suspect bore wear.
Recommendations????
Had a quote on PARTS only R7500.00 (Valve gides, stem seals, Victor Reinz head & Sub set, New oversize pistons, Piston Rings, Mains & Big end)
Price Excludes New Oil Pump (BMW Agents only) & Engineering.
Redo or Scrap, get a Replacement import Engine?
I've solved the cars oil pressure issue & Noisy Hydraulic Lifters.
I've replaced the following items:
- Intake & Exhaust Cam Boxes
- All 24 Hydraulic Lifters
- Intake & Exhaust Cams
- Primary Chain Tensioner
- Secondary Chain Tensioner
- Secondary Chain Sprockets (Both)
- Secondary Chain
Now that the engine is running silent, I turned to the recent new symptom (Car drinks oil & only smokes blue-grey smoke on mid to high revs.)
Changed the (CCV - Oil Seperator Valve) but car still consumes oil & smokes on Occasions.
While the cam boxes was out, I checked the valve springs for movement (Checking if all the Valve guides are in good condition) What a surprise the had unacceptable play) - Head needs overhaul.
Checked Cylinder compression as well: (Car has very slight miss on cyl 6 at idle)
Normal Check Wet Check (Oil)
Cylinder 1 1200 1400
Cylinder 2 1250 1450
Cylinder 3 1250 1450
Cylinder 4 1250 1450
Cylinder 5 1200 1400
Cylinder 6 900 1400
Somethings up with cylinder 6, Suspect bore wear.
Recommendations????
Had a quote on PARTS only R7500.00 (Valve gides, stem seals, Victor Reinz head & Sub set, New oversize pistons, Piston Rings, Mains & Big end)
Price Excludes New Oil Pump (BMW Agents only) & Engineering.
Redo or Scrap, get a Replacement import Engine?
damn... well im glad you sorted the noise...
does it make sense to get another engine if you have already done all this work on this one?
does it make sense to get another engine if you have already done all this work on this one?
bmw328
Member
Hello Moranor,moranor@axis said:
I've got mixed emotions about getting a replacement unit. The cheapest engine I could get to date is a M52B28 for R9500.00 BUT then I have to trade my old engine. (Really do think my engine is worth more than R1500.00?, don't u?)
Japan Auto Trading quoted me between R11 000.00 (Single Vanos) and R19 000 (Double Vanos) engine.
Currently I'm Thinking like this:
Import Engine: Extra starter, alternator, injectors, CCV, Lamba's, good engine... (Gamble!!!! It might be bad... :argh
Redo my engine (All of it):
Rebore the engine to a 3.0L, MMM, Assemble the engine myself, then I know everything is done right. :rollsmile:
i like the rebore idea it always feels better to spend money on the car if you getting a gain :rollsmile: just make sure it can be done safely and you have the right people to do the job
LPM320
///Member
@BMW328: I am in the exact same position as you are. My car (96 328i) has been using oil and smoking for quite a while now, and it has been getting worse with time. What block do you have?pre 09/1997 models had an aluminium block, while post 09/1997 models had cast iron blocks (some people say its aluminium blocks with steel sleeves, still not sure on this one).
If you have the later block and a great budget, then a rebuild will be the best way forward. If you are going to rebore, then im sure the cost will go up accordingly And im not so sure about reboring the aluminium block. Another option will be to stroke it to 3.0l using a 330i crank and rods, im sure the more experienced guys here will be able to elaborate better. If you have the aluminum block, like in my case, then things become a bit trickier. It isnt just a straight forward rebuild. You need to take into account the structural stress the block would have exerted to over the years (Aluminium is not as hardy as cast iron from what i read), sourcing a new block if the old one is buggered (Resleeving an aluminium block is expensive), etc.
The japanese import is abit of a grey area, on one hand it is the quickest and most cost effective solution around (You will end up with spare alternator, starter, p/s pump, crank, rods, pistons, etc, etc). And the downtime will be minimal. But it is a risk, you have no idea about the history of the motor, damaged could have occured while in storage, etc. I would pay the extra R1500.00 and keep my old motor, the spares from that engine alone is worth way more than R1500.00.
In your situation, taking into account the amount of work you have done on your current motor , I think rebuilding your engine will be beneficial to you. Rings were like R400.00 and Big end and main bearings R900.00, just to give you an idea. Even if you have the alloy block and it is damaged, any 325i or 323i/328i (cast iron pref.) will work.
There are options out there. It just depends what exactly you want, and how big your wallet is....
If you have the later block and a great budget, then a rebuild will be the best way forward. If you are going to rebore, then im sure the cost will go up accordingly And im not so sure about reboring the aluminium block. Another option will be to stroke it to 3.0l using a 330i crank and rods, im sure the more experienced guys here will be able to elaborate better. If you have the aluminum block, like in my case, then things become a bit trickier. It isnt just a straight forward rebuild. You need to take into account the structural stress the block would have exerted to over the years (Aluminium is not as hardy as cast iron from what i read), sourcing a new block if the old one is buggered (Resleeving an aluminium block is expensive), etc.
The japanese import is abit of a grey area, on one hand it is the quickest and most cost effective solution around (You will end up with spare alternator, starter, p/s pump, crank, rods, pistons, etc, etc). And the downtime will be minimal. But it is a risk, you have no idea about the history of the motor, damaged could have occured while in storage, etc. I would pay the extra R1500.00 and keep my old motor, the spares from that engine alone is worth way more than R1500.00.
In your situation, taking into account the amount of work you have done on your current motor , I think rebuilding your engine will be beneficial to you. Rings were like R400.00 and Big end and main bearings R900.00, just to give you an idea. Even if you have the alloy block and it is damaged, any 325i or 323i/328i (cast iron pref.) will work.
There are options out there. It just depends what exactly you want, and how big your wallet is....
bmw328
Member
Hello LPM320,
Replies as follow:
@BMW328: I am in the exact same position as you are. My car (96 328i) has been using oil and smoking for quite a while now, and it has been getting worse with time. What block do you have?pre 09/1997 models had an aluminium block, while post 09/1997 models had cast iron blocks (some people say its aluminium blocks with steel sleeves, still not sure on this one).
If an M52 starts smoking I usually recommend checking the following:
X Check, Clean or replace CCV (Oil separator valve) If they get damaged the engine always drinks oil, because the oil is being sucked into the intake manifold via dipstick tube.
X Check engine compression, WET & DRY. If there is a big difference in wet and dry readings it usually means that there is faulty with the rings or bore. IF there is no difference in wet & dry readings & compression is much lower than other cylinder, That’s usually head related. I physically checked my valves & valve guides when my camboxes was removed & therefore know my guides are worn.
I personally have bad experience with an Aluminum block (THE ORIGINAL BLOCK WAS Aluminum), I changed my block to old fashion Cast Iron block. I’m sure that the Aluminum block mush have steel sleeves.
If you have the later block and a great budget, then a rebuild will be the best way forward. If you are going to rebore, then im sure the cost will go up accordingly And im not so sure about reboring the aluminium block. Another option will be to stroke it to 3.0l using a 330i crank and rods, im sure the more experienced guys here will be able to elaborate better. If you have the aluminum block, like in my case, then things become a bit trickier. It isnt just a straight forward rebuild. You need to take into account the structural stress the block would have exerted to over the years (Aluminium is not as hardy as cast iron from what i read), sourcing a new block if the old one is buggered (Resleeving an aluminium block is expensive), etc.
The japanese import is abit of a grey area, on one hand it is the quickest and most cost effective solution around (You will end up with spare alternator, starter, p/s pump, crank, rods, pistons, etc, etc). And the downtime will be minimal. But it is a risk, you have no idea about the history of the motor, damaged could have occured while in storage, etc. I would pay the extra R1500.00 and keep my old motor, the spares from that engine alone is worth way more than R1500.00.
In your situation, taking into account the amount of work you have done on your current motor , I think rebuilding your engine will be beneficial to you. Rings were like R400.00 and Big end and main bearings R900.00, just to give you an idea. Even if you have the alloy block and it is damaged, any 325i or 323i/328i (cast iron pref.) will work.
There are options out there. It just depends what exactly you want, and how big your wallet is....
Money is always a problem, But if u need to do the engine, Do it the right way. No short cuts.
Replies as follow:
@BMW328: I am in the exact same position as you are. My car (96 328i) has been using oil and smoking for quite a while now, and it has been getting worse with time. What block do you have?pre 09/1997 models had an aluminium block, while post 09/1997 models had cast iron blocks (some people say its aluminium blocks with steel sleeves, still not sure on this one).
If an M52 starts smoking I usually recommend checking the following:
X Check, Clean or replace CCV (Oil separator valve) If they get damaged the engine always drinks oil, because the oil is being sucked into the intake manifold via dipstick tube.
X Check engine compression, WET & DRY. If there is a big difference in wet and dry readings it usually means that there is faulty with the rings or bore. IF there is no difference in wet & dry readings & compression is much lower than other cylinder, That’s usually head related. I physically checked my valves & valve guides when my camboxes was removed & therefore know my guides are worn.
I personally have bad experience with an Aluminum block (THE ORIGINAL BLOCK WAS Aluminum), I changed my block to old fashion Cast Iron block. I’m sure that the Aluminum block mush have steel sleeves.
If you have the later block and a great budget, then a rebuild will be the best way forward. If you are going to rebore, then im sure the cost will go up accordingly And im not so sure about reboring the aluminium block. Another option will be to stroke it to 3.0l using a 330i crank and rods, im sure the more experienced guys here will be able to elaborate better. If you have the aluminum block, like in my case, then things become a bit trickier. It isnt just a straight forward rebuild. You need to take into account the structural stress the block would have exerted to over the years (Aluminium is not as hardy as cast iron from what i read), sourcing a new block if the old one is buggered (Resleeving an aluminium block is expensive), etc.
The japanese import is abit of a grey area, on one hand it is the quickest and most cost effective solution around (You will end up with spare alternator, starter, p/s pump, crank, rods, pistons, etc, etc). And the downtime will be minimal. But it is a risk, you have no idea about the history of the motor, damaged could have occured while in storage, etc. I would pay the extra R1500.00 and keep my old motor, the spares from that engine alone is worth way more than R1500.00.
In your situation, taking into account the amount of work you have done on your current motor , I think rebuilding your engine will be beneficial to you. Rings were like R400.00 and Big end and main bearings R900.00, just to give you an idea. Even if you have the alloy block and it is damaged, any 325i or 323i/328i (cast iron pref.) will work.
There are options out there. It just depends what exactly you want, and how big your wallet is....
Money is always a problem, But if u need to do the engine, Do it the right way. No short cuts.
the 3l crank has a vibration issue at about 6000 rpm i would not fit it if you like to rev you car... so i would rather bore it out to make 3l if the block will take it...
Raybimmer
New member
I would recon the engine in this instance , the difference in compression readings indicates bore or ring wear .
I am sure a M52 B28 with 1st oversize rebore , M50 inlet manifold ,chip and branch/exhaust will give flywheel power close to the 330i at 170 kw , just a bit less torque .
If BMW Sa raced 330i in production cars , did they have a problem with broken cranks due to over revving - I cannot see these guys short shifting in races ? I suppose we do sometimes chase the red line , at least the M50 and M52 handle it .
I am sure a M52 B28 with 1st oversize rebore , M50 inlet manifold ,chip and branch/exhaust will give flywheel power close to the 330i at 170 kw , just a bit less torque .
If BMW Sa raced 330i in production cars , did they have a problem with broken cranks due to over revving - I cannot see these guys short shifting in races ? I suppose we do sometimes chase the red line , at least the M50 and M52 handle it .
the cranks dont break the oil pump has issues because of the vibration there is a vibration dampener and oil pump for this... the problem is only really seen on track day cars where the rpm spends a bit of time close to 6000 down the main strait...
the 2.8l crank does not have this problem so i would rather stick with it...
the 2.8l crank does not have this problem so i would rather stick with it...
bmw328
Member
Hello guys,
Was thinking of staying with the original m52b28 layout. (Keeping the 328i crank & rods, but was thinking of skipping the 1st oversize for the bore & going directly to the second or MAX, Any recommendation?
I love the power the car is making, even if she is sick or dieing she still makes my heart rush when i step on it!!!
PS. I've got a complete M50 fuel injection system that waits for this engine. but that is a total different mission together.
Was thinking of staying with the original m52b28 layout. (Keeping the 328i crank & rods, but was thinking of skipping the 1st oversize for the bore & going directly to the second or MAX, Any recommendation?
I love the power the car is making, even if she is sick or dieing she still makes my heart rush when i step on it!!!
PS. I've got a complete M50 fuel injection system that waits for this engine. but that is a total different mission together.
bmw328
Member
Ill sugest going to u're local engineering shop for information on robore or resleave. But I'm sure it can be rebored. Because bmw makes oversized pistons for the alininum engine? I checked on etk.LPM320 said:
Let's just say, I had torque issues. Because alininum is a much softer
Metal than cast iron, the bolts strip much much easier. In fact I have never striped a head bolt on a cast iron block, but have striped 3 on a aliminum engine.
LPM320
///Member
@BMW328: Thanks. Still trying to determine if the later model 323/328's had the same cast iron block or alloy block with sleeves. If it was the alloy block, then i suppose you would have the same issue with threads stripping, etc?
Any noticeable differences between the cast iron block and the aluminum block you had, in your experience?
Any noticeable differences between the cast iron block and the aluminum block you had, in your experience?
bmw328
Member
I stripped a 1998 323I that rolled over, it had a cast iron engine.LPM320 said:
The most noticable differences between the cast iron & aliminum blocks are the bolts. Bearings caps, head, all covers have longer bolts on the aliminum engines than the cast iron engine. But all covers and parts are interchangeble between both types of engines. Except the oil bore sprayers located under the bore and the oil pan buffer plate. That's the only parts that differ.
I had to modify the 325 buffer plate to work due to the stoke of the 328 and the uncompatablity of the aliminum engine buffer plate.
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