Viscous to elec fan change

[Hellrot]

I posted a diy search for it, it includes all part numbers needed and wiring diagrams

thanks

 

[Thunder]

Just another stupid question.

There is a fan that comes on when the motor temp goes to high right?
So would it be viable to say that you can just remove the viscus fan?

 

[Loom]

Just another stupid question.

There is a fan that comes on when the motor temp goes to high right?
So would it be viable to say that you can just remove the viscus fan?

No stupid questions - only stupid answers :=):

It seems to be the case. However, the electric fan you're referring to is the auxiliary fan that serves as backup when the viscous fan is not sufficiently cooling. (It also switches on at a low speed when the a/c is switched on). My concern is that if you only remove the viscous fan you remove the primary fan and am relying on the backup fan to do the job.

Changing the thermostat to a lower rating means the engine would run cooler than intended to so I wouldn't do that, either.

From above posts it seems that changing the thermostat switch (aux fan switch) to a lower temperature one would ensure that the engine is sufficiently cooled down when the thermostat opens to circulate the cooler fluid.

What I'm still not sure about is if the greater temperature difference between the fluid in the engine and the fluid in the radiator could in any way be harmful to the engine. With the stock parts the thermostat would start opening at 91 degrees and the aux fan would blow at a low speed. At 99 degrees the aux fan would blow at full speed. I have no idea at what temperature the viscous fan operates (except that it annoyingly fully operates for a while after startup). Perhaps the difference in temperature when removing the viscous fan is negligible.

I actually bought a 80/88 switch but the connector (using the 318is' part number) is completely different than my 323i's, so I still need to find a suitable switch.

 

[Sankekur]

Keep in mind that the early e36's used different connectors from the later ones.

61318361787 - big connector
61318376440 - small connector

 

[Hellrot]

You are around the corner from Gizmo so get him to do it for you.

+1,000,000

Gizmo did a fan delete mod on my 328i a few weeks ago and as he says, the motor is quieter, better throttle response and if you do long distance driving like me, the engine doesnt feel lethargic when taking off from toll gates/ traffic lights/ stop signs...

How much was it more or less and how long did it take?

 

[Liquid Ice]

Quieter motor, better throttle response and better fuel economy...no brainer.

How does the viscous fan delete help with power and fuel consumption?

Sent from my GT-I9300

it does not, its all placebo.


the fan delete mod may be beneficial for eliminating fan noise... but that's about it really.
all the other claims are not scientifically true.

a viscous coupling will only run at engine speed when a specific temperature range is reached, only at this range will it act as a load to your engine. the rest of the time it does nothing but rotate freely with no load added on your engine whatsoever, unless if we really become anal and start considering extremely negligible "parasitic load factors".

people tend to have a great misconception about electric fans in that's they don't bare any load to engine since there's no mechanical linkage...... WRONG.
electrical energy is still a load!

all that you effectively doing with the fan conversion, is converting from one form of energy to another, but ultimately, the energy factor (in joules) demanded from our source (the engine) in order to produce the same cooling factor from both types of fans will be exactly the same.

the electric fan will rely on the alternator which in turn relies on the engine to convert rotational force into electrical energy. THE MORE LOAD YOU PLACE ON YOUR ALTERNATOR, THE MORE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE CREATED INSIDE YOUR ALTERNATOR WHICH THEN DEMANDS MORE TOURQE TO ROTATE YOUR ALTERNATORS INPUT PULLEY, WHICH ALTIMATELY TRANSLATES INTO ENGINE LOAD.

ever wondered why these electric fans require such a large fuse rating? (20 - 30amps).
ever wondered why (especially in older cars) the engine's revs take a sudden dip when the electric fan suddenly kicks in at full speed?

energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. newton rule...

 

[Sankekur]

Quieter motor, better throttle response and better fuel economy...no brainer.

How does the viscous fan delete help with power and fuel consumption?

Sent from my GT-I9300

it does not, its all placebo.


the fan delete mod may be beneficial for eliminating fan noise... but that's about it really.
all the other claims are not scientifically true.

a viscous coupling will only run at engine speed when a specific temperature range is reached, only at this range will it act as a load to your engine. the rest of the time it does nothing but rotate freely with no load added on your engine whatsoever, unless if we really become anal and start considering extremely negligible "parasitic load factors".

people tend to have a great misconception about electric fans in that's they don't bare any load to engine since there's no mechanical linkage...... WRONG.
electrical energy is still a load!

all that you effectively doing with the fan conversion, is converting from one form of energy to another, but ultimately, the energy factor (in joules) demanded from our source (the engine) in order to produce the same cooling factor from both types of fans will be exactly the same.

the electric fan will rely on the alternator which in turn relies on the engine to convert rotational force into electrical energy. THE MORE LOAD YOU PLACE ON YOUR ALTERNATOR, THE MORE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE CREATED INSIDE YOUR ALTERNATOR WHICH THEN DEMANDS MORE TOURQE TO ROTATE YOUR ALTERNATORS INPUT PULLEY, WHICH ALTIMATELY TRANSLATES INTO ENGINE LOAD.

ever wondered why these electric fans require such a large fuse rating? (20 - 30amps).
ever wondered why (especially in older cars) the engine's revs take a sudden dip when the electric fan suddenly kicks in at full speed?

energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. newton rule...

The basis of your argument is valid, but your science and assumptions are all wrong.

 

[Liquid Ice]

Quieter motor, better throttle response and better fuel economy...no brainer.

How does the viscous fan delete help with power and fuel consumption?

Sent from my GT-I9300

it does not, its all placebo.


the fan delete mod may be beneficial for eliminating fan noise... but that's about it really.
all the other claims are not scientifically true.

a viscous coupling will only run at engine speed when a specific temperature range is reached, only at this range will it act as a load to your engine. the rest of the time it does nothing but rotate freely with no load added on your engine whatsoever, unless if we really become anal and start considering extremely negligible "parasitic load factors".

people tend to have a great misconception about electric fans in that's they don't bare any load to engine since there's no mechanical linkage...... WRONG.
electrical energy is still a load!

all that you effectively doing with the fan conversion, is converting from one form of energy to another, but ultimately, the energy factor (in joules) demanded from our source (the engine) in order to produce the same cooling factor from both types of fans will be exactly the same.

the electric fan will rely on the alternator which in turn relies on the engine to convert rotational force into electrical energy. THE MORE LOAD YOU PLACE ON YOUR ALTERNATOR, THE MORE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE CREATED INSIDE YOUR ALTERNATOR WHICH THEN DEMANDS MORE TOURQE TO ROTATE YOUR ALTERNATORS INPUT PULLEY, WHICH ALTIMATELY TRANSLATES INTO ENGINE LOAD.

ever wondered why these electric fans require such a large fuse rating? (20 - 30amps).
ever wondered why (especially in older cars) the engine's revs take a sudden dip when the electric fan suddenly kicks in at full speed?

energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. newton rule...

The basis of your argument is valid, but your science and assumptions are all wrong.

at least bit of a reasoning to support your insipid remark don't you think?

 

[Gizmo]

Its been proven countless times that the fan delete mod works, ask any who has done it, no placebo's here brother...take it from someone who lives and breathes E36...
If viscous fans are so great then why have BMW steered away from them? Parasitic drag is the reason which hurts fuel economy, can't fight the science of it...

 

[Sankekur]

aih, why not then

it does not, its all placebo.

If you say so.

the fan delete mod may be beneficial for eliminating fan noise... but that's about it really.
all the other claims are not scientifically true.

Removing the viscous fan reduces:
-load on the accessory drive
-reduces waterpump shaft and bearing wear
-the risk of sudden and violent disintegration of the fan.

the rest of the time it does nothing but rotate freely with no load added on your engine whatsoever, unless if we really become anal and start considering extremely negligible "parasitic load factors".

Even a working unlocked viscous has a reasonable amount of resistance.

all that you effectively doing with the fan conversion, is converting from one form of energy to another, but ultimately, the energy factor (in joules) demanded from our source (the engine) in order to produce the same cooling factor from both types of fans will be exactly the same.

No it isn't for the same amount of air displacement the engine will have deliver more power for the electric fan than for a viscous fan, a viscous fan is inherently more efficient that an electric fan due to the direct coupling between the motor and the fan.

But the assumption that an electric fan will be used with the same air displacement as a viscous fan is pointless as I highly doubt you would find one would fit in the engine bay. Additionally this was not even discussed in this thread or any thread for that matter.

the electric fan will rely on the alternator which in turn relies on the engine to convert rotational force into electrical energy. THE MORE LOAD YOU PLACE ON YOUR ALTERNATOR, THE MORE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE CREATED INSIDE YOUR ALTERNATOR WHICH THEN DEMANDS MORE TOURQE TO ROTATE YOUR ALTERNATORS INPUT PULLEY, WHICH ALTIMATELY TRANSLATES INTO ENGINE LOAD.

Indeed

ever wondered why these electric fans require such a large fuse rating? (20 - 30amps).
ever wondered why (especially in older cars) the engine's revs take a sudden dip when the electric fan suddenly kicks in at full speed?

Even at a full 30A an electric fan will only be using around 440W where a locked viscous is estimated at around 3500W.

energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. newton rule...

There is no such thing as Newton's rule.....it is called the law of conservation of energy



Happy now?

 

[Liquid Ice]

aih, why not then

it does not, its all placebo.

If you say so.

the fan delete mod may be beneficial for eliminating fan noise... but that's about it really.
all the other claims are not scientifically true.

Removing the viscous fan reduces:
-load on the accessory drive
-reduces waterpump shaft and bearing wear
-the risk of sudden and violent disintegration of the fan.

the rest of the time it does nothing but rotate freely with no load added on your engine whatsoever, unless if we really become anal and start considering extremely negligible "parasitic load factors".

Even a working unlocked viscous has a reasonable amount of resistance.

I thought I highlighted this as parasitic drag losses? im not even prepared to debate those. the mere weight of your electric fan offsets the losses you talking about.

all that you effectively doing with the fan conversion, is converting from one form of energy to another, but ultimately, the energy factor (in joules) demanded from our source (the engine) in order to produce the same cooling factor from both types of fans will be exactly the same.

No it isn't for the same amount of air displacement the engine will have deliver more power for the electric fan than for a viscous fan, a viscous fan is inherently more efficient that an electric fan due to the direct coupling between the motor and the fan.
[/quote]

very flawed and contradicting statement.

But the assumption that an electric fan will be used with the same air displacement as a viscous fan is pointless as I highly doubt you would find one would fit in the engine bay. Additionally this was not even discussed in this thread or any thread for that matter.
[/quote]

there's other variables other than displacement that contribute to cooling fan performance: pitch angle, blade tip clearance, mean airflow....etc. yes you can find similar specked electric fans with the same size as the viscous. just do the research.

the electric fan will rely on the alternator which in turn relies on the engine to convert rotational force into electrical energy. THE MORE LOAD YOU PLACE ON YOUR ALTERNATOR, THE MORE ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE CREATED INSIDE YOUR ALTERNATOR WHICH THEN DEMANDS MORE TOURQE TO ROTATE YOUR ALTERNATORS INPUT PULLEY, WHICH ALTIMATELY TRANSLATES INTO ENGINE LOAD.

Indeed

ever wondered why these electric fans require such a large fuse rating? (20 - 30amps).
ever wondered why (especially in older cars) the engine's revs take a sudden dip when the electric fan suddenly kicks in at full speed?

Even at a full 30A an electric fan will only be using around 440W where a locked viscous is estimated at around 3500W.
[/quote]
a 3.5kw viscous fan??? who did these numbers for you?

energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. newton rule...

There is no such thing as Newton's rule.....it is called the law of conservation of energy
[/quote]

dude really? what's next you gonna correct my grammar?



Happy now?
[/quote]

 

[RAArmstrong]

:drama:

 

[Gizmo]

:+1:

 

[Sankekur]

Maybe you should go do a bit of research before telling others to do research. I have changed my viscous fan on my 540i to an electric fan and done the research with doing it.

In a viscous fan there is is just the mechanical coupling between the motor and fan....the motor turns the fan.
In the case of an electric fan rotation of the motor is converted to electrical energy (with some loss) then the electrical energy is converted into a rotation of the fan again with some loss. So the electrical fan will be less efficient.
eg. a 300W electrical that works with 90% efficiency will only be producing 270W worth of air moving power.....now consider that say the alternator also only works with 90% efficiency it means the alternator will have to draw 330W worth of power from the motor. So 330W to generate 270W of air moving power.
Now explain to me in your own words how this is a contradiction.



Uhm ok so Newton rule, newton law, whatever....explain to me then the connection between Newton's work and the Law of conservation of energy.

 

[Liquid Ice]

Maybe you should go do a bit of research before telling others to do research. I have changed my viscous fan on my 540i to an electric fan and done the research with doing it.

In a viscous fan there is is just the mechanical coupling between the motor and fan....the motor turns the fan.
In the case of an electric fan rotation of the motor is converted to electrical energy (with some loss) then the electrical energy is converted into a rotation of the fan again with some loss. So the electrical fan will be less efficient.
eg. a 300W electrical that works with 90% efficiency will only be producing 270W worth of air moving power.....now consider that say the alternator also only works with 90% efficiency it means the alternator will have to draw 330W worth of power from the motor. So 330W to generate 270W of air moving power.
Now explain to me in your own words how this is a contradiction.



Uhm ok so Newton rule, newton law, whatever....explain to me then the connection between Newton's work and the Law of conservation of energy.

geez dude, you beginning to sound like you were the kid who lost the science Olympiad at high school. :nonono:

its cool, you right, you win. im out

---

:drama:

sorry didn't mean to create such drama. the intention was to contribute in what was supposedly seemed like a valid dilemma.
anyway, lemme get out of here before I get my grammar corrected.
:ty:

 

[Hellrot]

Stupid Q from my side. I can understand the logic that a less effective electric fan will be a loss to a more effective viscous fan.....esp if u are sitting in traffic for a while or driving like miss daisy.


But will said scenario above matter if you are doing 120KM or slightly less on the highway or open road? Even just city driving in general?

Thought id add my 2c. :rollsmile:

---

Stupid Q from my side. I can understand the logic that a less effective electric fan will be a loss to a more effective viscous fan.....esp if u are sitting in traffic for a while or driving like miss daisy.


But will said scenario above matter if you are doing 120KM or slightly less on the highway or open road? Even just city driving in general?

Thought id add my 2c. :rollsmile:

Just a thought in one point of view...

 

[Sankekur]

geez dude, you beginning to sound like you were the kid who lost the science Olympiad at high school. :nonono:

its cool, you right, you win. im out

Funny stuff coming form someone that tries to lord high school physics over others, but barely understands it himself.

Goodbye and good riddance.

 

[GPGrobler]

The electric fan for the E46 sells for R2900.00 from G-Drive, + R3000.00 with shipping, what else will I need for the conversion?

Thanks :thumbs:

---

Maybe you should go do a bit of research before telling others to do research. I have changed my viscous fan on my 540i to an electric fan and done the research with doing it.

In a viscous fan there is is just the mechanical coupling between the motor and fan....the motor turns the fan.
In the case of an electric fan rotation of the motor is converted to electrical energy (with some loss) then the electrical energy is converted into a rotation of the fan again with some loss. So the electrical fan will be less efficient.
eg. a 300W electrical that works with 90% efficiency will only be producing 270W worth of air moving power.....now consider that say the alternator also only works with 90% efficiency it means the alternator will have to draw 330W worth of power from the motor. So 330W to generate 270W of air moving power.
Now explain to me in your own words how this is a contradiction.



Uhm ok so Newton rule, newton law, whatever....explain to me then the connection between Newton's work and the Law of conservation of energy.

I'm not getting into all this scientific arguments over fans, I have two almost identical (almost identical, because the one has a viscous fan and the other an electric fan) E30's even in colour, both manual.

Practical experience by myself shows that running and electric fan translates in more power to the wheels and better fuel consumption because the E30 running an electric fan is lighter on fuel and has more power than the other one running a viscous fan, plain and simple :idea:

 

[danieljames]

2c

Has anyone that's done this mod experienced a decrease in fuel consumption?(daily driven). Is so then forget the science behind it.....In the real world it translates to more power...or better a decrease in engine load. If not.....Useless mod I suppose

 

[Gizmo]

I have personally experienced only benefits from this mod, so have all my customers, i fail to see why you don't believe the millions around the world that it works....:nonono: