Video: M3 (G80) vs RS5 at the Highveld

[Eust]

HEAVILY dependent on industry and even then it is a relatively small % of people in an already small % of the population who would be willing to do that... If you did though, I would guess there are flashier things you would want to spend eye watering amounts of interest on... I am sure the volume has dropped with these price jumps - it certainly feels this way just (as I mentioned above) seeing how many cars you see driving around from the new generations.

Sweeping statements about how R2M is the new R1M are true of the car industry in terms of how models have crept upwards like-for-like. What they absolutely DO NOT reflect is what has happened with salaries in the past 5-6 years. All that has happened is that finance houses have 'unlocked' a few more years which people were probably doing anyway to refinance their residuals on cars that had depreciated far below the 'residual value'... They then seem to have added a residual option over and above this (which is horrifying because people are now basically bonding cars)... I mean the bond on my house is 10 years but someone is going to be buying a car essentially over 7 years + 2 more years when they refinance their R800K residual LOL. Hope the instant gratification is worth the financial suicide LMFAO. The point I am trying to make is that even if you do 'qualify', you have to be really, REALLY committed to that flash to spend the amounts being asked now AND hope you outrun the depreciation which, lets face it, is going to be catastrophic on a BMW relative to a Porsche.

That said, you are 100% right in terms of certain people doing anything and everything in the pursuit of image.

Imagine: from July someone can buy a car with no motorplan, finance it over 84 months, stop their insurance after month 1, have it sitting on jack stands or junk-tier tyres, broken from year 4 or 5 and still be owing R800K after 7 years. How someone finances it is up to them but at some point it is just a high risk rental of the car... Even then though you still need an objectively high salary to buy one. 'Only' R70K nett is not common... perhaps in some industries and roles it is, but certainly not common in terms of even the top 1% of households in SA let alone individuals.

Again sample of 1: 6 years ago it would have been a no brainer to walk into a BMW and walk out with an M5. 3 years ago I sat in an F90 and had a hard decision to make despite it being 'affordable' for me. Today the new cars that would be that 'no-brainer' option are the M2C or TT RS which is around R1.2-1.5M... These are cars 2 tiers lower than I would have shopped for previously.

Whether I could be driving an M8 if I was also willing to be an absolute moron is a moot point - I just don't have the stomach to pay somebody that much in interest and have that much money at risk... (and this is outside of things like a GT3RS or 911 Turbo S etc being in that ballpark and likely to be far safer bets). For even high earners by SA standards, you have to hope for a great bonus (few and far between), an inheritance of some kind or be sorted with a paid up house and a good mix of investments/multiple rental properties etc. My feeling is that you would have to own a successful, sustainable business, specialist medical practice or to get a tender to own these 'the right way'.

TL;DR: RIP Salaried employees trying to keep up with the Joneses even with these band-aids.

Top 1% correctly sitting at $188k, circa R2.8M in SA, so that R70k nett is definitely easily below the top 1%.

The issue is though is that it's the borderline 1% to 5% that get into these financial suicide moves due to aspirations of grandeur, too soon.

Your point about 2 tiers lower after a few years later is exactly what most can't handle, that they currently drive a 201x Golf GTI now they got to stretch for the same GTI in 2021 and it only gets worse the higher up as that percent increase is now on R1.5M, making it a R2M car, and not R600k GTIs, but the FOMO is even worse at that ego level, so guess what, max residual max term.

Bye bye middle class after the third residual deal, you are broke unless you have a massive change in your income, which is highly unlikely. You can cover the first bad deal by loading the next, and maybe one more, but then it's game over.

 

[MR_Y]

I only checked this thread, after my original post, today. Interesting how the conversation moved from RS5 vs M3, to 911 vs M3, to discussing affordability of cars in this league

Anyway, on the subject of using a Porsche (a proper 2 door one, not an SUV or sedan one) as a daily, it is possible but you still need a family car. However, for my needs (for when I will be working in the JHB CBD soon), I need a cheapish runabout that will not draw too much attention and is happy to take the customary dings and scrapes in town driving. So, one sports car, one family car and one runabout car.

On the subject of car prices, the price paid for my family car (Volvo wagon) and my Porsche, together cost me less than a new Mzansi X3 20d - in fact, I would have about R100k in change, which I can use towards my city runabout car!

I no longer finance my vehicles and the first time I paid off a car, it really gave me an appreciation for the real value of money and what one can really afford. Financing (based on my experience, at least) used to give me the feeling that I could afford any car, as long as the instalment was easy to swallow. Now, I would rather battle a bit to buy a cheaper car for cash rather than buy a more expensive car on finance. If I am buying a car today for company purposes (say, as an Uber), then I would consider financing since it frees up cashflow vs paying cash upfront and you allow the car to earn it's keep.

I don't understand why someone would finance a R2m sports car, unless they are earning an after tax return on another investment that outweighs the interest on the car finance.

 

[TBP88]

haha

Top 1% correctly sitting at $188k, circa R2.8M in SA, so that R70k nett is definitely easily below the top 1%.

The issue is though is that it's the borderline 1% to 5% that get into these financial suicide moves due to aspirations of grandeur, too soon.

Your point about 2 tiers lower after a few years later is exactly what most can't handle, that they currently drive a 201x Golf GTI now they got to stretch for the same GTI in 2021 and it only gets worse the higher up as that percent increase is now on R1.5M, making it a R2M car, and not R600k GTIs, but the FOMO is even worse at that ego level, so guess what, max residual max term.

Bye bye middle class after the third residual deal, you are broke unless you have a massive change in your income, which is highly unlikely. You can cover the first bad deal by loading the next, and maybe one more, but then it's game over.

Perhaps globally top 1% is 188k USD, but certainly not in SA - IIRC 35k PM nett takes you into the top 1% of income earners. Wealth might be a bit different.

Realistically the market in SA for R2m+ cars is a few hundred people.

 

[TurboLlew]

I only checked this thread, after my original post, today. Interesting how the conversation moved from RS5 vs M3, to 911 vs M3, to discussing affordability of cars in this league

Anyway, on the subject of using a Porsche (a proper 2 door one, not an SUV or sedan one) as a daily, it is possible but you still need a family car. However, for my needs (for when I will be working in the JHB CBD soon), I need a cheapish runabout that will not draw too much attention and is happy to take the customary dings and scrapes in town driving. So, one sports car, one family car and one runabout car.

On the subject of car prices, the price paid for my family car (Volvo wagon) and my Porsche, together cost me less than a new Mzansi X3 20d - in fact, I would have about R100k in change, which I can use towards my city runabout car!

I no longer finance my vehicles and the first time I paid off a car, it really gave me an appreciation for the real value of money and what one can really afford. Financing (based on my experience, at least) used to give me the feeling that I could afford any car, as long as the instalment was easy to swallow. Now, I would rather battle a bit to buy a cheaper car for cash rather than buy a more expensive car on finance. If I am buying a car today for company purposes (say, as an Uber), then I would consider financing since it frees up cashflow vs paying cash upfront and you allow the car to earn it's keep.

I don't understand why someone would finance a R2m sports car, unless they are earning an after tax return on another investment that outweighs the interest on the car finance.

These discussions are always interesting. 100% on the same page as you. I joke that the M5s NATIS doc was my marriage certificate when I paid it up! Another consideration is that I am in an industry where whether you are consulting or employed full time, you have a 2-3 year window of stability AT MOST. You don't know what your next gig will be or what your next role will be! I couldn't commit to a nice car that I can afford now on the basis of instalment value but which then sends me to the poor house (or significantly depletes my reserves) if something hits the fan and circumstances change...

Once you take this approach there is no going back. It gives you a 'feel' for the money or value that is otherwise 'invisible' to most people... hidden behind the small monthly instalment amount. I did my taxes for this year and part of claiming back was having to look at the amount of interest on my bond... I don't know how many of you have done this exercise as well, but it was another thing I have a bee in my bonnet about stopping very soon...

I guarantee once you have R500K or R800K or R1M sitting and looking at you in one of your investments you will absolutely NOT want to spend it on a GTI or M2 or something where you know it is going to halve in value over a 3 year period.

This is when buying rarer things, Porsches, Ferraris, McLarens etc start to make sense (as you have more in assets or cash) - You can buy it, enjoy it and still lose minimal value in the grand scheme of things. Meanwhile some dude trying to keep up with you is calling you a drug dealer while loading another 300K onto this repmobile and telling himself that he is doing 'what rich people do' and 'making the banks money work for him'...

 

[TurboLlew]

haha

Perhaps globally top 1% is 188k USD, but certainly not in SA - IIRC 35k PM nett takes you into the top 1% of income earners. Wealth might be a bit different.

Realistically the market in SA for R2m+ cars is a few hundred people.

R2,8M figure was net worth from what I remember, not annual income... might be different now?

Either way, even if you do have 2.8M income, you might find that mix comes from investments/rentals etc.

These metrics are up for debate either way since it is survey data.

When I moved to Investec even though there are articles that say you can apply with an R800K min salary that very much depends on other assets you have and your overall net worth, debt levels etc. For a 'salaried' person with access to money but no actual wealth or assets, that entry number is far higher. Your 1% of wealthy households have a significant (if not majority of them) that you would never even know are in the 1%

This is the trouble though - we all assume the other person is 'like us' because the average person only thinks in terms of that paycheck every month. We also worry about what other people think -

Nobody knows that eg: Frans in marketing has 6 rental properties and that is why he is driving an AMG or M... Michael sees this, that he is at a higher level in the operations dept and decides to kick off a parking lot contest LOL. The comments you get when you haven't changed your car in 4 or 5 years make it seem like you're suffering from some terminal illness.
"What if your car hits you with a 100K bill?" "M Cars are expensive right?" - no Karen, I have been saving the instalment every month and can pay for it cash... "but won't it hurt to see that money go on a repair... why don't you just buy a new car for R1M?" (*AND NOBODY SEES THE STUPIDITY IN THIS.)

 

[TurboLlew]

Actually... I say the average person above, but really it is the 2-3% guys as @Eust says with the FOMO or wondering how they can get those cool toys their friends have/what their 'ego' deserves. In reality 90%+ of SA doesn't have the faintest idea of how any of this works at all.

 

[TBP88]

These discussions are always interesting. 100% on the same page as you. I joke that the M5s NATIS doc was my marriage certificate when I paid it up! Another consideration is that I am in an industry where whether you are consulting or employed full time, you have a 2-3 year window of stability AT MOST. You don't know what your next gig will be or what your next role will be! I couldn't commit to a nice car that I can afford now on the basis of instalment value but which then sends me to the poor house (or significantly depletes my reserves) if something hits the fan and circumstances change...

Once you take this approach there is no going back. It gives you a 'feel' for the money or value that is otherwise 'invisible' to most people... hidden behind the small monthly instalment amount. I did my taxes for this year and part of claiming back was having to look at the amount of interest on my bond... I don't know how many of you have done this exercise as well, but it was another thing I have a bee in my bonnet about stopping very soon...

I guarantee once you have R500K or R800K or R1M sitting and looking at you in one of your investments you will absolutely NOT want to spend it on a GTI or M2 or something where you know it is going to halve in value over a 3 year period.

This is when buying rarer things, Porsches, Ferraris, McLarens etc start to make sense (as you have more in assets or cash) - You can buy it, enjoy it and still lose minimal value in the grand scheme of things. Meanwhile some dude trying to keep up with you is calling you a drug dealer while loading another 300K onto this repmobile and telling himself that he is doing 'what rich people do' and 'making the banks money work for him'...

The depreciation game is really the big question. Before you bought an M3 at 20-40% cheaper than a 911. Knowing your BMW would lose substantially more value in % terms, but that your initial outlay defended you against that depreciation.

Does anyone here really believe that the G8X series M cars are going to hold value better than a 911? That's a *very* brave call if you do believe so.

Even a 911 will likely depreciate too quickly to justify taking an aggressive finance option at the rates we are offered (even the best purchaser isn't going to clear well under 6%)...

This is why I'm still sitting on my car. Old as it is and likely to need to do bearings soon and all that. I'd *way* rather pay that R25k bill than have a monthly deduction of R25k from my income.

R2.8m still sounds optimistic for SA top 1% of NAV - Some of the property valuations I see in CPT are also ridiculous - an example - a youngster who works close by our office told me they're renting an apartment that was previously rented out for R35k PM, they're paying R20k.

The owner is now trying to sell at a valuation of R8m. Now it doesn't take a genius to do the maths and tell you that if you can only earn R20k-30k pm in rent the place isn't worth R8m (hell, probably isn't even worth R5m). But estate agents are out here attempting to shift it at those prices, rates bills are charged at those prices etc. etc.

At the end of the day I'm more and more likely to just sit on my car for another 3-4yrs and try to have enough to deposit a chunk on something really special (992GT3Touring?) that I can own for the remainder of my life.

 

[TurboLlew]

The depreciation game is really the big question. Before you bought an M3 at 20-40% cheaper than a 911. Knowing your BMW would lose substantially more value in % terms, but that your initial outlay defended you against that depreciation.

Does anyone here really believe that the G8X series M cars are going to hold value better than a 911? That's a *very* brave call if you do believe so.

Even a 911 will likely depreciate too quickly to justify taking an aggressive finance option at the rates we are offered (even the best purchaser isn't going to clear well under 6%)...

This is why I'm still sitting on my car. Old as it is and likely to need to do bearings soon and all that. I'd *way* rather pay that R25k bill than have a monthly deduction of R25k from my income.

R2.8m still sounds optimistic for SA top 1% of NAV - Some of the property valuations I see in CPT are also ridiculous - an example - a youngster who works close by our office told me they're renting an apartment that was previously rented out for R35k PM, they're paying R20k.

The owner is now trying to sell at a valuation of R8m. Now it doesn't take a genius to do the maths and tell you that if you can only earn R20k-30k pm in rent the place isn't worth R8m (hell, probably isn't even worth R5m). But estate agents are out here attempting to shift it at those prices, rates bills are charged at those prices etc. etc.

At the end of the day I'm more and more likely to just sit on my car for another 3-4yrs and try to have enough to deposit a chunk on something really special (992GT3Touring?) that I can own for the remainder of my life.

I feel like what BMW and Mercedes have tried and failed to do is protect the residual values by escalating the prices to what we see today, artificially buoying the prices of older cars. The escalations in value are beyond what even inflation and currency devaluation can account for. They have effectively been changing their entire market positioning every two years or so. They had no vested interest to do so in the past but the candle is being burned on both ends at this point... In the pursuit of sustaining an unsustainable financial timebomb (building since 2011/2012 when high residuals really started taking off and were available at scale to non-car allowance earners), they have just made Porsche (of all brands) look like amazing value 10 years later, priced their dwindling target audience out of the market and in boardrooms, they will be misdiagnosing the issue.

Pricing It is out of whack even vs. what you see in other markets in terms of relative pricing to eg: Porsche. We discussed this in another thread actually in terms of BMW vs. Porsche relative pricing in the UK and EU.

Those M3s and M4s that 'sold out' creating the impression of limited supply and high demand (despite what our own eyes tell us on the road), seem to be sitting on third party dealer (or even BMW dealer) floors with delivery mileage... taking a leaf out of the Toyota launch playbook. Not a single one is priced under R2M on autotrader right now... some as high as R2.3M... With the Supra it wasn't pretty for the early adopters or dealers when the 'going' price dropped R350K (30%) literally overnight (though great for the market who snapped them up at what was VERY reasonable value)

If you now go back (somehow LOL) onto the topic here - that is a near R1M gap vs the car we 'think' it is up against (the RS5). In 3 years time someone is going to try to sell it for R1.5M used and the internet will think it 'held its value' not realising the dude has lost R800K at the going rate and not the 300K we have 'in our heads'.

That is a whole lot of Porsche or Ferrari for someone with cash...

Anyway in 3 years time who knows what will happen in this crazy world of ours - I personally don't want a R2M anchor if things go south and mobility or survival becomes key LOL.

 

[Eust]

haha

Perhaps globally top 1% is 188k USD, but certainly not in SA - IIRC 35k PM nett takes you into the top 1% of income earners. Wealth might be a bit different.

Realistically the market in SA for R2m+ cars is a few hundred people.

How much money you need to earn to be in the top 1% in South Africa – BusinessTech

You way off the mark, working in Wealth management, I can assure you there are much more than a few hundred people in SA that are in the market for a R2M car. There are over 35000 dollar millionaires' in SA, nett worth, and over a thousand in the UHNW category of R500M +.

 

[TBP88]

I feel like what BMW and Mercedes have tried and failed to do is protect the residual values by escalating the prices to what we see today, artificially buoying the prices of older cars. The escalations in value are beyond what even inflation and currency devaluation can account for. They have effectively been changing their entire market positioning every two years or so. They had no vested interest to do so in the past but the candle is being burned on both ends at this point... In the pursuit of sustaining an unsustainable financial timebomb (building since 2011/2012 when high residuals really started taking off and were available at scale to non-car allowance earners), they have just made Porsche (of all brands) look like amazing value 10 years later, priced their dwindling target audience out of the market and in boardrooms, they will be misdiagnosing the issue.

Pricing It is out of whack even vs. what you see in other markets in terms of relative pricing to eg: Porsche. We discussed this in another thread actually in terms of BMW vs. Porsche relative pricing in the UK and EU.

Those M3s and M4s that 'sold out' creating the impression of limited supply and high demand (despite what our own eyes tell us on the road), seem to be sitting on third party dealer (or even BMW dealer) floors with delivery mileage... taking a leaf out of the Toyota launch playbook. Not a single one is priced under R2M on autotrader right now... some as high as R2.3M... With the Supra it wasn't pretty for the early adopters or dealers when the 'going' price dropped R350K (30%) literally overnight (though great for the market who snapped them up at what was VERY reasonable value)

If you now go back (somehow LOL) onto the topic here - that is a near R1M gap vs the car we 'think' it is up against (the RS5). In 3 years time someone is going to try to sell it for R1.5M used and the internet will think it 'held its value' not realising the dude has lost R800K at the going rate and not the 300K we have 'in our heads'.

That is a whole lot of Porsche or Ferrari for someone with cash...

Anyway in 3 years time who knows what will happen in this crazy world of ours - I personally don't want a R2M anchor if things go south and mobility or survival becomes key LOL.

What do you mean ANCHOR. You'll be able to outrun anyone if you have a Ferrari!

TBH I've even been tempted to just live with no car of my own. My partner has a Jimny that does the shopping trip/dog walk drives/short drives fine. My car basically exists for long trips (of which there have been 2 in the last 2 years) or heading to wine farms (rare...) at this point... I'd be saving around R12k a year in insurance, probably half that again on maintenance and tyres and then reduced fuel consumption would likely be another R4-5k. I can always catch ubers if I really need to...

How much money you need to earn to be in the top 1% in South Africa – BusinessTech

You way off the mark, working in Wealth management, I can assure you there are much more than a few hundred people in SA that are in the market for a R2M car. There are over 35000 dollar millionaires' in SA, nett worth, and over a thousand in the UHNW category of R500M +.

These stats are pretty surprising to me, and counter to what SALDRU released a few years back. There's obviously a lot of tax obfuscation around this as well. But realistically when I say "in the market" keep in mind that I mean (1) have the means and (2) the desire. We're talking about a small set of people really. A fair chunk of people who fall into (1) are pretty comfy just buying something like a base X5 or a 1.6 TSI golf with some options and most of those in (2) can't afford an R2m car (even with financial band aids). For a *LOT* of people cars are nothing more than transport...

 

[TurboLlew]

How much money you need to earn to be in the top 1% in South Africa – BusinessTech

You way off the mark, working in Wealth management, I can assure you there are much more than a few hundred people in SA that are in the market for a R2M car. There are over 35000 dollar millionaires' in SA, nett worth, and over a thousand in the UHNW category of R500M +.

In the context of 60M people those are still very small numbers (sub 0.1%). There are a lot of wealthy people for sure who COULD get into one of these cars... in the order of hundreds of thousands. Whether they want a R2M M3 is another story.

I also suspect the loss of nearly 20% of high income earners in recent years will have had some impact on the shape of this picture...

 

[Eust]

This graph shows how wealth is distributed in South Africa – and how much the 1% really control – BusinessTech

This should give a picture into the wealth in SA, and that is a month old.

And not sure that the default conversation with an UHNW or HNW individual is buying a 1.6TSI because generally they don't even buy that for their kids, think M2/M4/RS3 etc, based on what I've seen. Hell you just need to go to UJ and look at the first year parking lot 😅😅😅

But I digress, different people have different insights/access to information based on their industry and circles so each to their own predisposition.

South Africa’s super rich set to grow

The global pandemic may have changed the world, but for the super-rich, who spend their money on flash properties, fast cars, super yachts, luxury handbags and other goods, COVID-19 only increased their spending power. According to Statista.com,…

www.fia.org.za

Bit more recent stats, almost 45k HNWI, and we can see it with the new clients in the market for servicing.

 

[individj]

i will say that there are many rich individuals in SA....theres a beautiful black M4 around the corner with no front plates and wow i must say its lovely...that owner has a few sports cars but always had BMs...the E92 ran a bearing and he had it repaired as well at a great cost. Looking at the future with cars...i reckon ill never have the latest cellphone or car ever again...dream property just makes more sense to me and im car crazy...im not rich enough to have both unfortunately ...especially living in Cape Town.

 

[GoCart]

Man, what interesting discussion this poorly matched race yielded... we should perhaps make it a regular thing.

Don't you think that financial management or financial responsibility should be a subject lectured in school, would sure change how people do things and probably ensure more are "financially stable" at some point.

As mentioned here already, one of the issues in South Africans is the concept of "status", which certainly does not help the financial planning proposition, with financial institutions only enabling poor behavior and not encouraging responsible behavior other than some advertising which very little pay attention to !!!

Let me tell you, at present I’m in Asia, driving a sh*t box, not flashing trendy threads or accessories, eating noodles and other strange things, not even thinking about owning a fancy anything because it simply does not matter to many here. It is a great state of mind!

 

[TurboLlew]

Man, what interesting discussion this poorly matched race yielded... we should perhaps make it a regular thing.

Don't you think that financial management or financial responsibility should be a subject lectured in school, would sure change how people do things and probably ensure more are "financially stable" at some point.

As mentioned here already, one of the issues in South Africans is the concept of "status", which certainly does not help the financial planning proposition, with financial institutions only enabling poor behavior and not encouraging responsible behavior other than some advertising which very little pay attention to !!!

Let me tell you, at present I’m in Asia, driving a sh*t box, not flashing trendy threads or accessories, eating noodles and other strange things, not even thinking about owning a fancy anything because it simply does not matter to many here. It is a great state of mind!

I think @Eust touched on this above: Ego, status etc is something so ingrained in society: things like "seeing your money", "treating yourself" etc. it won't matter what you learn about financial responsibility. We learn about safe sex in school, but still end up with unplanned pregnancies... This is again I think a somewhat different discussion as this thread is evolving LOL

I think about the US which is a first world country that will vote against its own best interests (and I am not talking about general elections as both Democrat and Republicans pass laws that are not in favour of the majority of the country tax wise)... this is because everyone believes they are going to be millionaires living the boomer dream very soon. Look at how guys will waste their entire life savings on lifted trucks and mustangs - it's a meme over there.

You have to almost remove yourself from this 'situation' for a cycle or two in order to really see it for what it is. It isn't something you can tell someone who is still young and immature - they still think they are going to be elon musk or follow the simple instructions YouTubers are telling them to do to be rich... The difficulty, risk, luck and tradeoffs aren't cool to talk about. We do this thing in society of retconning success to make the person being discussed seem like a gifted-genius-saint-hero.

This was an interesting watch somewhat related:

 

[Eust]

100%, I can personally see how people react to me when they ask "what you driving now", knowing I'm a huge car nut, and I respond that I don't have any cars and uber everywhere or use the wife's spare car.
The first thing they ask, after you see their face that is like "hmmmm money must be tight. How is work going - everything okay?" It is 100% engrained that if you not showing you don't have, for the majority of the aspirational LSM.

Social media is the devil LOL, everyone wants to be Rick Ross.

 

[Jeremy]

"the way it passed me was just disrespectful" lol

 

[TBP88]

Ironically the best way to know the new M3 is overpriced is that every thread that even tangentially involves the new M3 devolves into a thread discussing how stupidly expensive the new M3 is. LMAO

 

[osiris]

Sho what a thread this has turned into and allot of interesting reads and quite informative.

I was one of those people who spent my life being in debt, financing everything like an idiot till I lost my job three times! Up till that point I thought I was invincible.

After the 2nd job loss I completely changed my ways. I no longer finance anything, I won't ever finance a car again! My mindset is that if I can't afford to buy the car cash then I simply cannot afford the car and I am ok with that. I drive a car I always wanted, Granted its not a M4 or Porsche but for me personally I love the shape and everything about it. I don't owe anything on it and honestly there is no better feeling in the world than owning a paid off car and having money in the bank. When I lost my job last year due to Covid I didn't even break a sweat, I had Zero debt, car paid off, money in the bank and this made it easier to find another job quite quickly as I wasn't desperate to get a job just to keep up with my debt. I was able to be picky about what job I actually took. Life is just way better in every conceivable way without being tied to the bank. I even sleep better!

I don't have to go scrummaging around on the forums looking for "cheap" second hand tires anymore or cheap second hand parts. When things break on my car I am now able to buy the parts from BMW and not have to scour the forums for a second hand water pump etc I learned allot from people like My Dad and Firi who share similar mindsets. My dad always tried to tell me that if I want a car I either buy it cash or put a fat deposit on it and finance the remainder over a maximum of 1 - 2 years, if I can't do that then I simply cannot afford the car and boy was he right! I was just too stupid back then to listen to that advice!

You will be surprised how reliable an N54 becomes when you can actually keep up with the maintenance of it instead of trying to pay the damn thing off and keep up with things breaking from time to time and replacing with cheap knock off parts from goldwagon etc.

Just my 2c on this discussion.