THE N/A vs TURBO ENGINE DEBATE

[Gizmo]

You cannot call it a bmw anymore if it has a rubbish Japanese engine in it. When I see these conversions it tells me the owner didn't give 2 shits about servicing the car and in the process completely destroying the bmw motor has spent the least amount of money on the car to fix it or get it running again. Why would anyone want to buy/own a car that has been abused/neglected and then fixed on a shoe string budget?

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Seeing all these BMWs with toyota engine swaps being sold shortly after the conversion was done tells you they are completely rubbish and the owners have realized their mistake and quick to sell their rubbish onto another unsuspecting person.
Tell me, if these toyota swaps are so great then why does no-one ever keep their conversion cars? They are always for sale a few weeks/months after having them converted...

 

[sash]

You cannot call it a bmw anymore if it has a rubbish Japanese engine in it. When I see these conversions it tells me the owner didn't give 2 shits about servicing the car and in the process completely destroying the bmw motor has spent the least amount of money on the car to fix it or get it running again. Why would anyone want to buy/own a car that has been abused/neglected and then fixed on a shoe string budget?

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Seeing all these BMWs with toyota engine swaps being sold shortly after the conversion was done tells you they are completely rubbish and the owners have realized their mistake and quick to sell their rubbish onto another unsuspecting person.
Tell me, if these toyota swaps are so great then why does no-one ever keep their conversion cars? They are always for sale a few weeks/months after having them converted...

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Agree with everything mentioned except the highlighted bit. I will give credit where it is due, not all toyota engines are good, but definitely not all are rubbish.

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I don't get the Lexus connection described.

The mark five 3S-GE was only available in the Japanese market. The plot thickens.

Regarding the lexus part, Me thinks the seller tried to add 'tags' that would aid when buyers are searching...

The cam cover looks painted to be honest, why one would dont have when these engines are defined by their cam cover is the question.

 

[Gizmo]

^ if it needs a turbo to make power then it's rubbish.

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That 2jz engine is nothing without its turbo. Look how poorly they perform without the assistance of a turbo.

 

[sash]

^ if it needs a turbo to make power then it's rubbish.

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That 2jz engine is nothing without its turbo. Look how poorly they perform without the assistance of a turbo.

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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, let's not forget the beams 3sge which made more than most NA bmw engines(non m) if not all. Their rsi and rxi engines that made 147 & 115kw respectively.

 

[Gizmo]

Toyota have built some decent NA engines in the past with the use of vvt hot cams and individual throttle bodies like the red and black top rsi/rxi motors but that's about it. The rest need turbos to work properly. Honda make far better engines than Toyota do.
Bmw stopped building decent engines after the S65, now everything only needs to last as long as motorplan.

 

[WyKiD]

Like sand through the hourglass.....you changed your mind wrt diesel engines, lets see how things progress over a few years....you might have a boosted petrol car in your garage too....:tiptoe:

 

[Gizmo]

The only boosted car I will own will be a diesel. I want nothing to do with modern bmws as they truly lost the plot in all aspects. I cannot own a car built by an accountant, sorry.

 

[Coisman]

The only boosted car I will own will be a diesel. I want nothing to do with modern bmws as they truly lost the plot in all aspects. I cannot own a car built by an accountant, sorry.

...Never say Never...

Just like BMW that said they will never build a front wheel drive car, and WOW, now they are.

I also don't like all the turbo cars coming out now, and I am not a mechanic to know which is better, and I love my N/A car, but if that is all that will be available in the future, and because the supply is so high, then I am sure the maintenance costs of turbo failures will also go down (hopefully)

Point is, we all have our favourites, me having owned both Honda and Toyota and bmw, and having driven even more variety with my work, but saying an engine is crap just cause you don't like it as a personal preference is not good.

Its like saying my car looks crap with all the stickers and decals because you don't like it. That is all good, I like it.



Now back on topic... Cars and Parts spotted for sale :thumb:

PS: I love you all ok. :blowheart:

 

[TBP88]

My personal taste is also towards an NA engine - but, for instance, the sounds made by the supra engine, the RB26 era skyline engines have to be respected. To say nothing of their power! I suspect that in the next 5-10years NA cars will be a thing of the past, just from an efficiency point of view.

 

[Woodies]

The only boosted car I will own will be a diesel. I want nothing to do with modern bmws as they truly lost the plot in all aspects. I cannot own a car built by an accountant, sorry.

I'm an accountant! I certainly wouldn't buy a car I built either:=):
But I agree with you, and also the turbos vs NA. The newer BMW have become too soft (without the options of more of drivers car, less comfort more feeling) and they are trying to be an "all in one" car. I don't believe in one car for all occasions. The engineers skills on a high revving NA engine I find amazing. The turbo's cars are more like IT for me - amazing tech/efficient/better consumption/more power etc etc, BUT has no soul.
Guess I'm getting old and don't want to "stick" with the times!

 

[zama]

S54 or S65 motor for me all day errrday'

 

[Maljan]

You cannot call it a bmw anymore if it has a rubbish Japanese engine in it.

A 1UZ is hardly a rubbish engine. They have a stellar reputation for reliability, far better than the M60 or M62. A million kilometres is routine for them. Go search for million mile Lexus you will find the story of guy called Matt Farah and his LS400.

The 1UZ has only one design problem. The starter motor is buried inside the vee, underneath the intake manifold and all the other plumbing. So if the starter needs attention at say half a million kilometres it is a big job. Oil leaks or cooling system shenanigans are unknown on the 1UZ. It is so reliable that there is a version that is certified for use in light aircraft.

A fine engine in search of a better car. The Lexus LS makes a good limousine but it is hardly a driving machine, quite the opposite in fact. Another small problem is that if you want more power than standard, you are on your own. There is very little after market support for souping them up.

 

[cOlDFuSiOn]

10 odd years ago it was still cool to own a Turbo car, think of the bug/blob eye Scooby era.. That sound of a properly tuned and boosted car is still amazing, low and behold the odd RB26 at full tilt you would sometimes hear too.. Those are cool turbo cars to own.. :=): But today.. Yes I agree, owning a turbo car today is not all that fun, they are there for emission purposes.. A turbo was always meant to add the fun factor, some still do depending on what you buy. My 2c. :coolShake:

 

[Yuben]

Guys seeing that this debate was derailing the Cars Spotted thread, I have split the debate and moved it from the For sale forum.

So knock yourselves out debating :cartel:

 

[Gizmo]

Wasn't needed Yuben, just seeing so many Toyota engine swap bmws for sale got me on the subject.

 

[Yuben]

Personally for me, my E46 330i was purest most enjoyable N/A car I've owned with my 3 20v's coming a close 2nd.

My only problem with N/A cars is me living in JHB and always waiting to get to the coast to enjoy its full potential. And the other problem was always playing catch up with these pesky annoying little turbo cars.

Therefore my next car had to be a turbo car and only a BMW and what better example than the legendary N54. For me the 335i is the ultimate turbo car(Kish2604s 335i comes to mind:rollsmile

I guess BMW had to keep up with competitors and went the turbo route. HONDA did the same. Toyota and Nissan refused to do so on the "normal playing field" and have now fallen way behind.

In the world thatthat we live in, the only thing that is constant, is change.

:chef:

 

[Yuben]

Wasn't needed Yuben, just seeing so many Toyota engine swap bmws for sale got me on the subject.

It was needed as the purpose of the cars spotted thread was being lost. Hence Francois's post as well.

 

[Gizmo]

Sorry about that.

 

[Little Goliath (Daniel)]

Personally for me, my E46 330i was purest most enjoyable N/A car I've owned with my 3 20v's coming a close 2nd.

My only problem with N/A cars is me living in JHB and always waiting to get to the coast to enjoy its full potential. And the other problem was always playing catch up with these pesky annoying little turbo cars.

Therefore my next car had to be a turbo car and only a BMW and what better example than the legendary N54. For me the 335i is the ultimate turbo car(Kish2604s 335i comes to mind:rollsmile

I guess BMW had to keep up with competitors and went the turbo route. HONDA did the same. Toyota and Nissan refused to do so on the "normal playing field" and have now fallen way behind.

In the world thatthat we live in, the only thing that is constant, is change.

:chef:

100% Agree on this I had a 323i and it had decent power but takes too long to get up to speed, upgraded to a 335i and the rest is history when that turbo kicks in nothing can take away the grin on my face

 

[Yuben]

I agree that the 2JZ should not be shoehorned into a BMW shell:RedNo:

I understand that BMWs have fantastic stability to handle the power of the 2JZ but still :RedNo:

It was such sacrilege to see an E39 M5 run 295km/h at ODI but with a 2JZ.
If the Supra shell cannot be sourced then keep that motor in a Toyota.

Hats off to Schalk Hartzenberg, Hannes Minaar, Wessel and Marius Oosthuizen, Paulo Dos Santos to name a few to use Toyota shells.

And also to my brother for using an IS200 to pilot his 404kw/709nm 2JZ beast :cartel: