discussion Something new(er)

[Salt]

Hi all,

Considering changing the M140i for something newer and a good few years of motor plan on tact. Motor plan is important to me personally, and 4 doors as well. Disclaimer - even when I say something is value for money - I want to state that I think all cars are overpriced
So, what I have considered or considering at the moment is as follows and your comments are welcome:

1. Audi S4 (current gen). I think they offer good value for money. Spec is really good and better priced than the M340i X. They pretty much all have massaging front seats, heated steering wheels etc. and the B&A sound system is not bad - I do think the HK is better. Its got the V6 3L turbo motor. The M140i is brutal, the S4 is subtle. You don't feel the acceleration like you do in the M140i. Doesn't make it bad - just different. Ride quality is pretty good for sure. Misses a few things at the price point like auto tailgate and heated seats I feel. I use my heated seats a lot - its def not a novelty item in any of our vehicles. I feel like this will probably be a pass for me - its just too 'refined' if I can put it that way. Still a great car - not knocking it.
2. BMW M340i X drive - great car of course and that B58 motor I am used to. Just a little more than what I would like to pay - also for me personally - very little to put it aside from the rest of the G20 range. Like some others I will mention below - this is X drive - I am not 100% sure on the M340i model, but I don't think it has the option of a RWD mode - not sure if anyone can confirm? And guessing its FWD biased under normal drive conditions?
3. BMW F87 M2 Comp - GREAT car, the looks are still insane to me - such a great looking car. The 2 doors make it a difficult buy for me, and lower mileage examples are a little above that I am looking to spend. Still want to get into an M car at some point.
4. BMW M235i GC & F40 135i - A 2021 model with relatively low mileage can be had for decent money. They have the next gen interior which is very nice, still decent power and I personally like the looks - I know not everyone agrees . Here my biggest thought is the same as with the M340i - no RWD as I understand it.
5. The new gen S3 - funny enough I see, just the F40 135i - its down on power to its predecessor. However a pre owned model here is generally about a R100k more than the F40 135i and spec seems a little lower.
6. EDIT - can I throw a Mini Cooper in here - I am not very familiar with them - but just came to mind?

Personal preference is to drive another BMW - that is just me. But I have spent some time both reading and driving an Audi to compare. Keen to hear your comments.

 

[TBP88]

Even the last M2Comp models will be 2021 models? So you're looking at 3-4yrs of plan cooked already. And BMW only does the 2yrs extra vs Audi which does 5 (iirc).

If mplan is really critically important to you, I'd probably lean towards an Audi given they allow such meaty extensions. You don't state a budget but a nearly new current RS3 is around like R1.2mish for 2nd hand ones?

 

[KarshS]

It will be between the M340i and M2 for me. Nothing else on the list is very interesting.
I have a hatred for Audi which i cant get over. Apart from the RS models i dislike the rest of the range.

I have an M340 and my brother has the M2 comp so i drive both back to back often. M2 is a monster, power, DCT, suspension is very sporty. Abit too sporty for an every day family car.
Ill sound biased but the M340 is value for money. Packed with tech, comfortable, enough power (But nothing like the M2), surprising efficient on fuel.
There is no motorplan friendly way to make it RWD (Only via XHP). From what i remember its FWD biased on comfort and RWD biased in Sport.

 

[Sabretooth tiger]

I say go with the M340i. I had the privilege to drive Karshan's car. Although I only drove it very carefully. Something about getting out of a vivo into that car makes ones legs shake. Also I wanted to treat it with respect for the owner and car.
You will end up wishing you never bought the Audi and will be back here looking to get rid of it.

 

[momo1]

If i were you it will be M2 comp all day, even without Mplan , Stash +/-20k for the crank hub replacement and another 30k for any other wear and tear items.

 

[TBP88]

M340 for similar money to any audis will either be 1-2yrs older, meaning OP has even less plan.

If plan is of absolute import, then don't get a BMW where extensions are limited.

For my money, I'd go M2comp though, coolest car on that list by a country mile. The rear seat is surprisingly usable also.

 

[MR_Y]

Current shape M240i. Full stop.
Excellent rear space for a sports car (more rear leg room than an 8 series).
Stonking performance. I tested one and I can tell you that it is quicker (faster accelerating) at low to medium speeds than my 911, especially at Highveld altitude.

The car is RWD biased AWD.

My only gripe is that it is too insulated from the driving action. Exhaust sounds good, though.

I would steer away from Audi, unless it is a bonkers TT RS where its character masks its minor flaws. The S4 and S3 are just too bland (in my view). Though, the S4 has the proper permanent Torsen AWD and not the Haldex temporary AWD system of the S3 (and TT, TTS, TTRS).

M340i, used, is a good option. But just drive the M240i first...

 

[MR_Y]

I should also throw in the old C43 AMG. Sounds good and is fast enough.

 

[TBP88]

Current shape M240i. Full stop.
Excellent rear space for a sports car (more rear leg room than an 8 series).
Stonking performance. I tested one and I can tell you that it is quicker (faster accelerating) at low to medium speeds than my 911, especially at Highveld altitude.

The car is RWD biased AWD.

My only gripe is that it is too insulated from the driving action. Exhaust sounds good, though.

I would steer away from Audi, unless it is a bonkers TT RS where its character masks its minor flaws. The S4 and S3 are just too bland (in my view). Though, the S4 has the proper permanent Torsen AWD and not the Haldex temporary AWD system of the S3 (and TT, TTS, TTRS).

M340i, used, is a good option. But just drive the M240i first...

Only downside is how ugly the current gen 240i is... At least the M2 current gen hides the bulk with big bulges and bullishness, in m240 guise it looks very awkward.

 

[TurboLlew]

if you're into abusing your mental health, get the S4.

M340i (mostly RWD anyway) and M2 are your only real upgrades IMHO. You would think you would be suffering with understeer or numb dynamics but BMW does this very well IMHO.

In a few years time everyone is going to be wondering why on earth they weren't paying as much attention to the F87 M2 as they should have been... and the manuals will have taken over in the 'last analogue' status from shit-tier influencers and youtubers . Some moron was talking about the 1M as 'the last analogue' BMW, seemingly oblivious to the fact that the M2 OG/comp/CS and even the G87 still have a manual (albeit with my hated auto-rev match) and literally everything else about them is identical in concept (Front engine, RWD, Manual, Turbo inline 6...)

 

[nabil_m_rs]

From this list, definitely the M340i all the way.

I love the M2C, however considering pricing is slightly more or less the same as an F80 M3 LCI 2 Comp, I wouldn't opt for it from this list. I'd rather put in the extra bit and but an F80 which to me is a better car all round than the M2.

 

[TBP88]

if you're into abusing your mental health, get the S4.

M340i (mostly RWD anyway) and M2 are your only real upgrades IMHO. You would think you would be suffering with understeer or numb dynamics but BMW does this very well IMHO.

In a few years time everyone is going to be wondering why on earth they weren't paying as much attention to the F87 M2 as they should have been... and the manuals will have taken over in the 'last analogue' status from shit-tier influencers and youtubers . Some moron was talking about the 1M as 'the last analogue' BMW, seemingly oblivious to the fact that the M2 OG/comp/CS and even the G87 still have a manual (albeit with my hated auto-rev match) and literally everything else about them is identical in concept (Front engine, RWD, Manual, Turbo inline 6...)

It's also an exclusivity thing, BMW sold as many M2s as they could, didn't the 1M also have hydraulic PS?

I'd almost certainly have gotten an M2 if you had more interior/exterior options on the list. The only hold back for me was the interior quality and the lack of colour options really. It's an amazingly fast thing.

 

[GravityLee]

Why is Motorplan so important to you?

 

[TurboLlew]

It's also an exclusivity thing, BMW sold as many M2s as they could, didn't the 1M also have hydraulic PS?

I'd almost certainly have gotten an M2 if you had more interior/exterior options on the list. The only hold back for me was the interior quality and the lack of colour options really. It's an amazingly fast thing.

Not disputing the exclusivity. I am disputing it being the "last true analogue..." story that changes focus every now and then.

As for steering: this is one of those "OK... so what?" things for me: Is that where we have gotten to in defining analogue now? Labeling a car that is it as 'analogue' when the same car will literally keep its driver alive by intervening on steering/braking/torque vectoring? That will auto rev-match? (very analogue ) That has turbos and ECUs and ABS braking and where even the analogue-looking gauges and elements are digital? Why not go all the way back then to a car with no power steering at all? No? Too analogue? Using the word analogue to describe cars of any kind like today is dumb IMHO... and so is playing spot the difference with the parts list: at-best it is a DISTANT reach.

It also (as with transmissions) simplifies things into false dichotomies Manual = good, Auto = Bad and EPS = Bad, hydaulic = Good. It is never that simple and there are HORRIBLE manual transmissions or situations where an auto is better suited...same way there are horrible hydraulic systems and highly tuned and tunable EPS systems.

Youtubers farm views/clicks by going through some "new discovery" every year. For the past 10 years we have been bombarded with 'the last true/great/best' or 'thinking man's version' of everything only for the next gen (or real AMG/M/RS) to take its place a year or two later (that the same youtuber buys with his money from the previous content LOL). It is always just clickbait for owners (and the youtuber themselves usually owns one) and hailed as the last true enthusiast M/AMG/RS etc' til they buy the next one. Interestingly this usually sets of all the current owners (who probably know there's something better out there) doubling the asking prices of their 'best cars ever' in order to take advantage of the hype and upgrade

What really irritated me about the M2 was that they would not do individual builds for colour or interior and also they wouldn't even take your order for the few parts that they DID have (eg the brake upgrade). They were pig headedly trying to sell whatever was on the floor (probably the last BMW I'd have considered or been able to justify buying brand new too).

 

[TBP88]

Not disputing the exclusivity. I am disputing it being the "last true analogue..." story that changes focus every now and then.

As for steering: this is one of those "OK... so what?" things for me: Is that where we have gotten to in defining analogue now? Labeling a car that is it as 'analogue' when the same car will literally keep its driver alive by intervening on steering/braking/torque vectoring? That will auto rev-match? (very analogue ) That has turbos and ECUs and ABS braking and where even the analogue-looking gauges and elements are digital? Why not go all the way back then to a car with no power steering at all? No? Too analogue? Using the word analogue to describe cars of any kind like today is dumb IMHO... and so is playing spot the difference with the parts list: at-best it is a DISTANT reach.

It also (as with transmissions) simplifies things into false dichotomies Manual = good, Auto = Bad and EPS = Bad, hydaulic = Good. It is never that simple and there are HORRIBLE manual transmissions or situations where an auto is better suited...same way there are horrible hydraulic systems and highly tuned and tunable EPS systems.

Youtubers farm views/clicks by going through some "new discovery" every year. For the past 10 years we have been bombarded with 'the last true/great/best' or 'thinking man's version' of everything only for the next gen (or real AMG/M/RS) to take its place a year or two later (that the same youtuber buys with his money from the previous content LOL). It is always just clickbait for owners (and the youtuber themselves usually owns one) and hailed as the last true enthusiast M/AMG/RS etc' til they buy the next one. Interestingly this usually sets of all the current owners (who probably know there's something better out there) doubling the asking prices of their 'best cars ever' in order to take advantage of the hype and upgrade

What really irritated me about the M2 was that they would not do individual builds for colour or interior and also they wouldn't even take your order for the few parts that they DID have (eg the brake upgrade). They were pig headedly trying to sell whatever was on the floor (probably the last BMW I'd have considered or been able to justify buying brand new too).

Ja, 100% agree, I just think the 1M, like 325is and 333i and E46M3CSL has transcended it's value as a driving proposition and become an investor car.
Sadly that means even the crappier ones become wildly expensive and the good ones become insane. Of course these dichotomy's are relatively limited, but in general terms they still serve as a pretty good mnemonic in broad terms. A manual M2 is almost certainly a more engaging drive (which is how I interpret the "analogue") than a new RS3 with it's variant of autobox.

On the M2 (comp and original) they didn't even do individual as an option, 0 colours, interior was basically "this is it". At the prices they charged for the car new, that simply wasn't what I wanted.

I think in total there were 5 or 6 colour options for the M2. The M2comp would have looked unbelievable in green. The only way to get there is with a wrap (google that shape in a green wrap, looks amazing!).

 

[nabil_m_rs]

Not disputing the exclusivity. I am disputing it being the "last true analogue..." story that changes focus every now and then.

As for steering: this is one of those "OK... so what?" things for me: Is that where we have gotten to in defining analogue now? Labeling a car that is it as 'analogue' when the same car will literally keep its driver alive by intervening on steering/braking/torque vectoring? That will auto rev-match? (very analogue ) That has turbos and ECUs and ABS braking and where even the analogue-looking gauges and elements are digital? Why not go all the way back then to a car with no power steering at all? No? Too analogue? Using the word analogue to describe cars of any kind like today is dumb IMHO... and so is playing spot the difference with the parts list: at-best it is a DISTANT reach.

It also (as with transmissions) simplifies things into false dichotomies Manual = good, Auto = Bad and EPS = Bad, hydaulic = Good. It is never that simple and there are HORRIBLE manual transmissions or situations where an auto is better suited...same way there are horrible hydraulic systems and highly tuned and tunable EPS systems.

Youtubers farm views/clicks by going through some "new discovery" every year. For the past 10 years we have been bombarded with 'the last true/great/best' or 'thinking man's version' of everything only for the next gen (or real AMG/M/RS) to take its place a year or two later (that the same youtuber buys with his money from the previous content LOL). It is always just clickbait for owners (and the youtuber themselves usually owns one) and hailed as the last true enthusiast M/AMG/RS etc' til they buy the next one. Interestingly this usually sets of all the current owners (who probably know there's something better out there) doubling the asking prices of their 'best cars ever' in order to take advantage of the hype and upgrade

What really irritated me about the M2 was that they would not do individual builds for colour or interior and also they wouldn't even take your order for the few parts that they DID have (eg the brake upgrade). They were pig headedly trying to sell whatever was on the floor (probably the last BMW I'd have considered or been able to justify buying brand new too).

As I pointed out, the biggest issue to me about buying an M2C is the fact that the F80 M3 isn't too far off in terms of price, which to me makes more sense to get since you have more options in terms of spec and colours, and not forgetting the fact you have more practicality since you have more doors.

 

[TurboLlew]

As I pointed out, the biggest issue to me about buying an M2C is the fact that the F80 M3 isn't too far off in terms of price, which to me makes more sense to get since you have more options in terms of spec and colours, and not forgetting the fact you have more practicality since you have more doors.

Yeah Salt needs to decide how much of a deal the practical side is. It's a difficult list of cars (in terms of diversity) to choose from in that it's apples and oranges for the most part. Someone looking at an all-in-one solution will prioritise differently to someone who wants specialised 'function' cars that are much better (and worse) at specific things. The F80 is a hell of a car for the money (even craziness of the current market taken into account).

 

[nabil_m_rs]

Yeah Salt needs to decide how much of a deal the practical side is. It's a difficult list of cars (in terms of diversity) to choose from in that it's apples and oranges for the most part. Someone looking at an all-in-one solution will prioritise differently to someone who wants specialised 'function' cars that are much better (and worse) at specific things. The F80 is a hell of a car for the money (even craziness of the current market taken into account).

The F80 is actually holding its value quite well and its still a very good looking car.

Even the F10 M5 as well, but I doubt he'll find one with a warranty since they old now.

 

[Salt]

Why is Motorplan so important to you?

Various reasons, and it's served me well in the past. I know not everyone agrees, and I don't want to open a debate on motor plan vs no motor plan here. I'm also not against not having one with the right car and going for an extended warranty. I'm sure there are existing treads on this topic 😁

 

[PsyCLown]

I'd much rather go for the G20 M340i over the BMW M235i GC & F40 135i.
However the M2 Comp would be extremely tempting, I personally love the way the M2's look!

Seems you've been considering the M2 comp for a while: https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/threads/f87-m2-comp-options.100553/

Perhaps this is the time.... Get one with some plan left, then when you can't extend it anymore go for an aftermarket warranty - depending on which aftermarket warranty if you add it while the car still has some plan left you're put into a category where there is no limit to how much they will payout towards the parts which are covered should something go wrong.
M-Sure is a warranty a friend and I have had in the past and it has worked well, I never had to claim but he has and has not had any issues.