Naked Insurance

[MR_Y]

Updates attached.
This is general info available to all clients, so no risk of confidentiality issues by sharing this

Some of the main changes:

- Do not pay your premium with money obtained from any criminal activity
- Trauma counselling included up to a limit
- Won’t cover any loss, damage, liability that is caused by Electricity Grid Failure (this is not the same as normal loadsheding).
- Private repairs to car: If you would like to proceed with a private repairer (that is not included on our panel of approved repairers) you will need to provide us with a quote from your preferred repairer. If we agree, we will settle the claim in cash by paying for the lowest quote between our repairer and your repairer. ● Should you choose to proceed privately, we will not be liable for any consequential loss or damage following the repair to your vehicle.
- Damage caused by vermin or domestic animals: There is no cover for loss or damage caused by domestic animals that belong to you or anyone living at your risk address. We also do not cover loss or damage caused by vermin (except for monkeys and baboons). Vermin are animals and insects that can be harmful and difficult to control when they appear in large numbers. Vermin include moths, termites or any other animal or insect classified as invasive species.
- Cars younger than 12 months: If your car is insured for its retail value, we may choose any of the following methods to settle your claim: ● Replace: We may replace your car with a used car which is similar to or better than your car which was stolen or written-off. If your car is still financed, remember that your financial institution’s interest still takes priority. We will explain the process to you at the claim stage and we will only replace your car if you agree to it
- Remote jamming theft of contents in car: There is CCTV footage showing evidence of remote jamming and the item is out of view, for instance inside a locked boot, inside the glove compartment or under a seat.
- Laundry on the line: There is no longer cover for laundry on the line

 

[TurboLlew]

Updates attached.
This is general info available to all clients, so no risk of confidentiality issues by sharing this

Some of the main changes:

- Do not pay your premium with money obtained from any criminal activity
- Trauma counselling included up to a limit
- Won’t cover any loss, damage, liability that is caused by Electricity Grid Failure (this is not the same as normal loadsheding).
- Private repairs to car: If you would like to proceed with a private repairer (that is not included on our panel of approved repairers) you will need to provide us with a quote from your preferred repairer. If we agree, we will settle the claim in cash by paying for the lowest quote between our repairer and your repairer. ● Should you choose to proceed privately, we will not be liable for any consequential loss or damage following the repair to your vehicle.
- Damage caused by vermin or domestic animals: There is no cover for loss or damage caused by domestic animals that belong to you or anyone living at your risk address. We also do not cover loss or damage caused by vermin (except for monkeys and baboons). Vermin are animals and insects that can be harmful and difficult to control when they appear in large numbers. Vermin include moths, termites or any other animal or insect classified as invasive species.
- Cars younger than 12 months: If your car is insured for its retail value, we may choose any of the following methods to settle your claim: ● Replace: We may replace your car with a used car which is similar to or better than your car which was stolen or written-off. If your car is still financed, remember that your financial institution’s interest still takes priority. We will explain the process to you at the claim stage and we will only replace your car if you agree to it
- Remote jamming theft of contents in car: There is CCTV footage showing evidence of remote jamming and the item is out of view, for instance inside a locked boot, inside the glove compartment or under a seat.
- Laundry on the line: There is no longer cover for laundry on the line

The highlighed section in red is problematic for me. It is unlikely someone is going to be demanding to go to a 'worse' repairer. It is more likely they are not comfortable with the likely dodgy list of repairers. So basically if you're in a position like the dude with the M6 where there is a vast difference in value, they may tell you to take the 30K for a dodgy-but-approved repair shop. Go and pay potentially 100K+ to do it 'the right way' - and then wash themselves of further responsibility in the process? or potentially have issues with future claims?

People tell themselves fairytales about insurance like every other part of car ownership. The problems are not in terms of relatively mundane claims which should be straightforward with ANY insurer. It is where eg: a human and some logic are required or where there is a genuine dispute between what constitutes a good repair or an acceptable repairer.

What is irritating about the above is that they want to both pay the 'smaller amount' and it is necessary for them to 'agree' to the repairer, but they also have a potential 'out' in future should there be other issues. Some may have had the misfortune of dealing with an insurer who demands 'double excess' because there is a scratch on the other side of the bumper that was picked up, yet they would have to spray or replace the whole bumper anyway (I am using this example since it is a personal one). You cannot trust changes in wording like this.

Before anyone tells me to give NAKED the benefit of the doubt, can they ask themselves if NAKED would give THEM the benefit of the doubt when interpreting policy wording? It would be nice if one of the legal fanatics could provide an opinion on this.

 

[MR_Y]

Good points @TurboLlew.
I emailed them and confirmed that for my premium cars (Porsche and BMW), they will honour the approved manufacturer body repairers. So, for Porsche that will mean only Porsche Centre body workshops.

 

[PsyCLown]

Good points @TurboLlew.
I emailed them and confirmed that for my premium cars (Porsche and BMW), they will honour the approved manufacturer body repairers. So, for Porsche that will mean only Porsche Centre body workshops.

Curious to hear what they say!

My GF has been with Naked for around 2 years now and has had the misfortune of having multiple claims (small fender benders).
The first time it went to Renew it, which IMO is one of the worst panel beaters out there. The 2nd time we insisted on a different panel beater, she was happy with the work... if it was my car or her car was of higher value I wouldn't be happy with it.

However with that being said, the claim process was fairly simple. Naked do not call you back though and are a bit slow to reply at times and get back to you with answers.
Vehicle hire took a few days to arrange as well, however once arranged all went smoothly and the vehicle was delivered to the panelbeater when she dropped her vehicle off.

 

[MR_Y]

Curious to hear what they say!

My GF has been with Naked for around 2 years now and has had the misfortune of having multiple claims (small fender benders).
The first time it went to Renew it, which IMO is one of the worst panel beaters out there. The 2nd time we insisted on a different panel beater, she was happy with the work... if it was my car or her car was of higher value I wouldn't be happy with it.

However with that being said, the claim process was fairly simple. Naked do not call you back though and are a bit slow to reply at times and get back to you with answers.
Vehicle hire took a few days to arrange as well, however once arranged all went smoothly and the vehicle was delivered to the panelbeater when she dropped her vehicle off.

Naked confirmed on email:
"Indeed we do have the Porsche Centre on our system and are a approved panel beater so all will be in order"

So, for Porsche I am sorted, since only a Porsche Centre will work on the car and Naked will cover that.

For my BMW and Ford, the only requirement is that the panel beater is approved by the manufacturer. This means that it can be a Renew It scenario, where any panel beater shop with a BMW/Ford accreditation (we all know that does not always hold much these days) can work on the car.

 

[GravityLee]

Ugh. Just the wording of that reply would have me looking for a decent broker.

 

[TurboLlew]

So I have to ask: have people just not tried brokers? Have the experiences been shit? Is there general confusion as to exactly what they are getting?

I have competent flesh and blood human beings that can answer at Sela and its the same people I deal with for years at a time (Literally). I can get a quote on cars in literally minutes using my profile. They send flesh and blood humans to come and evaluate home contents - they've gone out of their way to fix any issues I've had over time and in the process won me over further. They confirm and explain changes in plain english. I can opt in and out of things should the need arise. I had Silvercrest (also specialist brokers) with excellent service for track day insurance and trying to beat Sela on day to day. The only downside I've had is that maybe you're going to have to wait for a Monday if there's an issue over the weekend. Doesn't stop you getting roadside assistance or things you need 'in that moment'.

What is the attraction of Discovery, Outsurance, Iwyse... things with these idiotic bonuses or stupid gamification elements? I don't get the attraction of Naked being almost 'touchless' as a benefit. This is not an area of life that you want to embrace AI or 'frictionless transactions' IMHO. Like for like/apples to apples they can't be the same in terms of cost/benefit: The best anyone has been able to do for me is just match what I get via a broker... and that is far from enough to get me to change. I actually don't know what will make me change at this point.

They can even give you customised rates based on cars in storage or used for very little mileage in a year (and without having to 'turn on and turn off' insurance. The stories of "I've never had a problem" mean nothing when the situation is straightforward and minor. I read things like the M6/Iwyze story and it sounds like an out and out scam. The industry is no doubt corrupt, it is no doubt a minefield of collusion. It is no doubt a grudge purchase for us all... just that a broker tends to make this a whole lot more palatable than dealing with tele-surers or (now) AI/automation.

 

[MR_Y]

Sela is excellent at especially high end car insurance.

They did quote me on my Macan. They also offer track day insurance.

My main gripe was the excess (2.5x Naked) and the premium (2x Naked).

If Naked did not have Porsche Centre on their approved panel beater list, I would have moved to Sela.

However, there is the chance that the service level from Naked could be lower than Sela when it comes to claim time. It is a gamble I am willing to take, given the savings on premium and excess. Will monitor the situation and see how it goes...

 

[Eust]

Interesting...... might try get a quote on the M4 as car hardly gets used during the week when I am away. Unfortunate that they don't insure modified cars as the M3 gets driven even less and would save me majority of the R2300 premium 😅

 

[Eust]

Interesting...... might try get a quote on the M4 as car hardly gets used during the week when I am away. Unfortunate that they don't insure modified cars as the M3 gets driven even less and would save me majority of the R2300 premium 😅

Did a quote today, R2139 for the M4 sans the extras or retail price booster, which would have added another R400k + to the sum insured. Currently I think I'm paying R1700 odd for the M4 with the extras and booster.

 

[PsyCLown]

So I have to ask: have people just not tried brokers? Have the experiences been shit? Is there general confusion as to exactly what they are getting?

I have competent flesh and blood human beings that can answer at Sela and its the same people I deal with for years at a time (Literally). I can get a quote on cars in literally minutes using my profile. They send flesh and blood humans to come and evaluate home contents - they've gone out of their way to fix any issues I've had over time and in the process won me over further. They confirm and explain changes in plain english. I can opt in and out of things should the need arise. I had Silvercrest (also specialist brokers) with excellent service for track day insurance and trying to beat Sela on day to day. The only downside I've had is that maybe you're going to have to wait for a Monday if there's an issue over the weekend. Doesn't stop you getting roadside assistance or things you need 'in that moment'.

What is the attraction of Discovery, Outsurance, Iwyse... things with these idiotic bonuses or stupid gamification elements? I don't get the attraction of Naked being almost 'touchless' as a benefit. This is not an area of life that you want to embrace AI or 'frictionless transactions' IMHO. Like for like/apples to apples they can't be the same in terms of cost/benefit: The best anyone has been able to do for me is just match what I get via a broker... and that is far from enough to get me to change. I actually don't know what will make me change at this point.

They can even give you customised rates based on cars in storage or used for very little mileage in a year (and without having to 'turn on and turn off' insurance. The stories of "I've never had a problem" mean nothing when the situation is straightforward and minor. I read things like the M6/Iwyze story and it sounds like an out and out scam. The industry is no doubt corrupt, it is no doubt a minefield of collusion. It is no doubt a grudge purchase for us all... just that a broker tends to make this a whole lot more palatable than dealing with tele-surers or (now) AI/automation.

I can't speak about others, however my experience with brokers has been limited and not great.

Insurance related, the brokers I reached out to for quotes wanted to charge me significantly more than the current insurance I had at the time (I think back then it was Santam I was with). I can understand a slight increase in price and could justify a higher monthly premium for better coverage and the convenience of dealing with the broker and letting them fight with insurance on my behalf, although too high of an increase and for me it becomes hard to justify as I have been fortunate and only had 1 insurance claim since I started riding & driving and it was for a cracked window.


If we start talking about medical aid brokers, well f&^k... I would love a Discovery broker who is willing and able to assist with the constant fights where Discovery always pushes back and never wants to cover anything the neurologist wants to do. They all seem to want to sit back and get easy money and are more interested in the profiles with lots of extras and adds on and where they actually make some reasonable money off. I got rid of my broker and will deal with Discovery directly and my GF is still struggling with brokers and gets nowhere. I think we need to look at going to the ombudsman to try get Discovery to cover some medication for a PMB my GF has which her neuro has been trying to get her on for over a year now.

 

[TurboLlew]

So I tried getting a quote now from Naked:

Over double for the F90 at R4609/month
About double for the 4C at R2773/month
About double for the Merc R1393/month

So basically moving to Naked for cars alone = roughly my current total cost for cars + 2 properties. I will say this is far better than other telesurers such as eg: Outsurance where for my F10 I could literally have bought another F10 M5 as backup for the premium they quoted! I wonder why my premiums are so far off consistently, except when using brokers.

I can see how it is still attractive to move to Naked if you basically need to 'turn off' insurance for a few months at the expense of paying double in the months that you do use the vehicle. Silvercrest does offer an option like that as well if memory serves.

Medical aid is another kettle of fish... there is no winning in general unless you're fortunate enough to be on CAMAF. Discovery thinks that basically nothing is necessary and everything 'extra' is cosmetic. There is absolutely no 'value for money' with Discovery IMHO. They will pay for quacks in their network gladly time and time again (way beyond what you would pay collectively), yet 'proper' specialists that will sort you out first time or with a short course of treatments you basically have to pay cash yourself since none will work with Discovery and you have to hope Discovery will refund you after the fact (I experienced this personally with dermatologists, opthalmologists and maxillofacial surgeons over the years).

You have to jump through many hoops and become very entangled with them to get many if not most of the benefits of being in the ecosystem. Defending discovery on things like vitality and the 0.5% of people who get max benefits from them is like Americans supporitng policies against themselves hoping that one day they will be billionaires and benefit from those policies.

Unfortunately in the case of Discovery, they are a necessary evil and there is basically no choice since the alternatives are equally bad.

 

[MR_Y]

After 3 years of no premium increases, today Naked announced my first increase. Total increase for the cars and house (building and contents) is 9%.

Excess on cars stay the same.
Still no mandatory requirement for Tracker.
Excess on house went up by R2,000, but they also bumped up the value by R350k.

Not complaining.

 

[MR_Y]

Update....

My first car related claim through Naked.

This was from the recent hail storm in Midrand on my G01 X3.

I submitted my pictures on the app and gave a short video story of the incident.
After a few days, the assessor calls me and says that based on the pictures and video, he estimates the repair to be R17k. Since this is less than my excess of R20k*, he advised that I don't submit the claim.

I explained that since the car is white, the hail damage may be difficult to see accurately on video or pictures.

He seemed reluctant to come out to see the car in person, so asked me to go to a BMW ARC and get a quote. I went to Auto Body Specialists Midrand and they picked up more hail damage that I did not see (on the front fenders, the metal above the door windows and the C pillars). They came to a quote of almost R60k.

The assessor is arranging to discuss further with ABS, but it seems that they are closed for the holidays. So, will feedback in January.

I have friends who have had major accident claims with Naked and their assessors came out immediately to assess. It seems with minor damage claims, they are a bit more relaxed. Also, given it being year end, I am willing to cut them some slack for now...

Anyway, will feedback next year.


(* given my low risk profile, I am comfortable with a high level excess)

 

[JordanB]

This makes me concerned. Having experience in the finance industry with AI, I can tell you that this below is still a pipe dream. I foresee alot of claim issues with this type of setup. Rather wait for more guinea pigs to sign on and join after 2 years, when most of the kinks with AI are ironed out.

"We use automated AI rather than call centres or brokers to run and manage your policy, which costs us less and translates into lower premiums for you."

Not really no, I work in Insurance tech with the same type of system Naked uses. They are just using AI as a buzzword, but it’s just automated is what they mean. The whole quote process, to actually fully taking out a policy. Then for claims everything is still relatively manual, they take claims and claims information digitally which saves them money not needing a call centre agent to do it. But then a claims officer is still the person to manually review the claim and repudiate or fulfill it.

Note for OP: I use Naked for my car and phone, they great, haven’t needed to claim but Hollard usually handles claims when they dealing with ones they might decline so you should be all good.

 

[MR_Y]

Update....

My first car related claim through Naked.

This was from the recent hail storm in Midrand on my G01 X3.

I submitted my pictures on the app and gave a short video story of the incident.
After a few days, the assessor calls me and says that based on the pictures and video, he estimates the repair to be R17k. Since this is less than my excess of R20k*, he advised that I don't submit the claim.

I explained that since the car is white, the hail damage may be difficult to see accurately on video or pictures.

He seemed reluctant to come out to see the car in person, so asked me to go to a BMW ARC and get a quote. I went to Auto Body Specialists Midrand and they picked up more hail damage that I did not see (on the front fenders, the metal above the door windows and the C pillars). They came to a quote of almost R60k.

The assessor is arranging to discuss further with ABS, but it seems that they are closed for the holidays. So, will feedback in January.

I have friends who have had major accident claims with Naked and their assessors came out immediately to assess. It seems with minor damage claims, they are a bit more relaxed. Also, given it being year end, I am willing to cut them some slack for now...

Anyway, will feedback next year.


(* given my low risk profile, I am comfortable with a high level excess)

Update

Naked Insurance assessor met me at the above panelbeater (BMW approved). He agreed that the damage in the pictures seems less than what is actually on the car. He and the panelbeater discussed the quote and I have approval to go ahead.

Based on this experience, my suggestion is that if you are with Naked Insurance and claiming for any damage, you must insist on a physical assessment and not just the online assessment. The physical assessment took 10 minutes and everyone was on the same page

 

[maleven-GP]

Update

Naked Insurance assessor met me at the above panelbeater (BMW approved). He agreed that the damage in the pictures seems less than what is actually on the car. He and the panelbeater discussed the quote and I have approval to go ahead.

Based on this experience, my suggestion is that if you are with Naked Insurance and claiming for any damage, you must insist on a physical assessment and not just the online assessment. The physical assessment took 10 minutes and everyone was on the same page

Thanks @MR_Y
Recently moved over to Naked for my cars, this will come in handy should I need to claim..

Miway increased my premium from R3600 to R6200 citing frequent claims, and some nonsense about how they have spent more on my claims than my premium contributions 🤣🤣.. 2010 330d, 2011 125i vert, and G02 X4..

The shock was a R15000 qoute.. See attached, can't remember which insurer it was 🙄🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[TurboLlew]

Thanks @MR_Y
Recently moved over to Naked for my cars, this will come in handy should I need to claim..

Miway increased my premium from R3600 to R6200 citing frequent claims, and some nonsense about how they have spent more on my claims than my premium contributions 🤣🤣.. 2010 330d, 2011 125i vert, and G02 X4..

The shock was a R15000 qoute.. See attached, can't remember which insurer it was 🙄🤷🏽‍♂️

Miway has jokes. I am not even paying 5K for my F90 + 4C + C200 I have also had around the same value of claims in the period covered by your attachment above. Sela recovered and refunded the excess to me for most of those as well.

Fanatics will be tired of this story by now, but Outsurance quoted me more than the instalment I was paying for my F10 M5 at the time. I literally told them I could go and buy a spare . This reminds me that I should get them to quote me some exorbitant amount so they can pay me again. Make sure you ask for yours @maleven-GP (https://www.outsurance.co.za/car-in... personal car insurance,need to give us proof.)

Good feedback on Naked's process.

 

[VinceM]

Thanks @MR_Y
Recently moved over to Naked for my cars, this will come in handy should I need to claim..

Miway increased my premium from R3600 to R6200 citing frequent claims, and some nonsense about how they have spent more on my claims than my premium contributions .. 2010 330d, 2011 125i vert, and G02 X4..

The shock was a R15000 qoute.. See attached, can't remember which insurer it was

Madness

Glad you left!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MR_Y]

Thanks @MR_Y
Recently moved over to Naked for my cars, this will come in handy should I need to claim..

Miway increased my premium from R3600 to R6200 citing frequent claims, and some nonsense about how they have spent more on my claims than my premium contributions 🤣🤣.. 2010 330d, 2011 125i vert, and G02 X4..

The shock was a R15000 qoute.. See attached, can't remember which insurer it was 🙄🤷🏽‍♂️

@maleven-GP you may want to hide the personal info in that screenshot.....