n55 ethanol and no fuel flex

[Javbrat-wp]

so as many would know that i use procede on my car from vishnu tuning. i love procede and recently they have kinda tapered down with developments with regards to i think just bmw in general and continued with developments on the brz and toyota 86 .

but its really frustrating because bms is advancing so much with development daily on the n55 and we are just stopped . procede has not made a fuel flex kit yet for us, according to them they don't know when it will be ready and can assure us its not anytime soon.

so i decided to read up and try to see if i can use ethanol without the fuel flex. bare in mind when i had jb even with the fuel flex the car continued to throw codes even with a 10 % mix .this time no fuel flex and a whole new tuning tool ,so i used 10 litres of shell 95 and 2 litres of ethanol . thats a 20% mix.
&

:joy::joy::joy::joy:

map one i set safety boost to 16 psi. generally when logged on pump and nf utra she will hit constant 15.5 psi. timing will be around 3. boost at 5800 is 11.2 psi.

now , after doing around 10 km then hooking it. i did a log it showed higher boost of 16.psi almost constant and boost at shift is 12.3psi . then the timing from 3 went to 1 i was like yoh and remember guys this is with map1 everyday map.

then i decided to wait for the next day i just feel a cold start with a new mod always works the best. the next morning i went to log...

i noticed while driving around 4k rpm the car cuts off pretty aggressively and it threw a code... I'm like noooooooooooooo..

then i stopped and checked the code , wasn't related at all, it was a tuner code.. so then viewed the log. timing down to 1.0 afrs were decent then i see boost 15.9 ,16, 16,1 16.1 at the rpm of where i got the code and the aggressive jerk it was 16.1.

i decided to clear codes, recent octane levels, reset dme and vans, i drove slowly parked the car off, i waited for about 2 hours and went back to log. but this time under user adjustments increased safety boost to 17.5 psi.

took her for a burn. and :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

logs showed 16.1, 16,3 16,5 timing down to 0 and afr at shift point was 10. now i want to try bp 98 race fuel and meth and a 20% ethanol mix.

please let me know what you guys think of ethanol without fuel flex and its damaging effects ..

 

[Twinz]

The BMS flex wire will work with any piggy back...just wire it straight into the ECU.

Yes, you need an eth flex control unit on the N55 motor. Of course you can run ethanol & various fuels without a flex kit on the N55 but the ECU does not catch or interpret the fuel signals quick enough without the flex converter.

I dont understand the AFR and timing description in your post. Try post up the log or email me. If i go by your description then your AFRs are too rich to make power.

 

[Twinz]

Just realised its Jeremy :=):

Sorry man. Cant Chris help you to try out his flex kit...experiment with a configuration?

 

[Javbrat-wp]

Just realised its Jeremy :=):

Sorry man. Cant Chris help you to try out his flex kit...experiment with a configuration?

haha Charles..

its all kewl, ill send you the logs asap.

mmmm interesting... il speak to him now and see if we can try to hook up this fuel flex kit.

i wil keep u posted ,

thanx again Twinz

 

[Twinz]

Great stuff :thumbs:

 

[hoosain]

seems like your octane is to low for those boost levels
thats why your afr is 10 dme trying to compensate by making the car rich (dumping fuel)
this also explains your timing drop to prevent detonation
consider doing a water meth kit to keep your timing up

 

[S1NGH 911]

Add some NF ultra into the mix, will bump up the octane nicely :rollsmile:

 

[Jeppe777]

Terry said up to 20% ethanol is fine without flex wiring

 

[Javbrat-wp]

thanx guys will try it and get back to you.


do any of you guys have ppk and juice box with meth and works well ???

 

[Kish2604]

Jeremy bro...

Here is my take on this, note what I have learnt is a mix of info from Charles,Chris and terry...

So being unfamiliar with proceed I can't answer how a flex fuel kit will work however on the juice box the flex fuel detects the percentage of eth in the fuel and accordingly adjusts the fuel enrichment to the injectors to keep your afr clean, now not having FF sensor means that your tune will only be able to enrich fuel mix to a certain point, how far this point is will only be clear on continuous logging of the afrs, too much eth and you could lean out drastically and that's all she wrote, however once you find the fine line for your afr then spraying meth over that will add the safety margin you need, keep in mind that you will make max power at any rpm at at an afr of around 13.8-14.5 but also this is your highest EGT point...if you go richer towards the 11/12 mark then your over fueling and sacrificing power but at a safety margin in terms of lower EGT and knock prevention. The use of ethanol helps reduce your EGT and timing pull at this critical point so it can't be left out of any serious fuel mix.

Lastly I could also suggest you speak to Chris and try out our local supplier of witches brew to complement your mix... We have all had great results on this mix...

:thumbs:

 

[Javbrat-wp]

shot kiss, will definitely try that , i hear your concerns i begin my new logs tomorrow evening.

il log 20% eth with pump fuel

bp 98 with nf

bp 98 nf meth50/50

bp 98 20% ethanol

bp 98 20% ethanol 50/50meth

bp 98 witches brew

bp 98 witche brew 50/50 meth.

lots of fuel and tons of logs ....just hope i don't stress her out. but i just hope i can conclude this before next week end.

keep u guys update.

thanx for ur responses.

 

[Twinz]

My only suggestion to your plan above is to replace 98 with pump fuel. Dont bother with 98.

The idea witha fuel concoction that makes hard power is to do it (cheaply) so you can run it as often as you can.

For example start with these logs:

A.) Pump fuel and methanol injection.

B.) 20% Ethanol mixed with pump fuel AND meth injection.

C.) Then 1 bottle NF Ultra mixed with 25liters pump.

D.) Then lastly 20% ethanol mixed with pumpfuel and witches brew AND meth injection.


Methanol injection is still the best knock failsafe for our motors.
Take your time with this experiment. Once you find the ideal log then stick with it. Instead of changing things around all the time. A mix for daily use is vital such as the pump fuel and meth injection....its cheap power.

 

[Javbrat-wp]

My only suggestion to your plan above is to replace 98 with pump fuel. Dont bother with 98.

The idea witha fuel concoction that makes hard power is to do it (cheaply) so you can run it as often as you can.

For example start with these logs:

A.) Pump fuel and methanol injection.

B.) 20% Ethanol mixed with pump fuel AND meth injection.

C.) Then 1 bottle NF Ultra mixed with 25liters pump.

D.) Then lastly 20% ethanol mixed with pumpfuel and witches brew AND meth injection.


Methanol injection is still the best knock failsafe for our motors.
Take your time with this experiment. Once you find the ideal log then stick with it. Instead of changing things around all the time. A mix for daily use is vital such as the pump fuel and meth injection....its cheap power.

ohh...lucky i read this just in time, was just preparing the mixes. thank you Charles ,

i will keep u and the guys updated, i spoke to chris about the jb fuel flex and trying to integrate with procede , his sceptical but says his willing to give it a shot , if you have any ideas on how to start this experiment in terms of wiring diagrams please let me know. i would greatly appreciate it.

thanx again guys ..and Twins)))

 

[fluffy]

slight thread jack...

what's the most that can be got out of a N54 or N55 with good old 95 octane?
lets say with intake, JB4/any other software, Downpipe(s) & decat, full exhaust... maybe bigger FMIC (but not it's getting expensive)

nothing added to the fuel.

 

[Twinz]

You mean dyno figures?

I am sure most owners have a benchmark they can quote. But it will be as different from car to car and coast to altitude.

I recall gaining around 280kw and 504Nm at the fly with FBO on 95 pump on the old Jb3.

The question that Jeremy, myself and many x35 owners are asking (NOW) once the car is out of MP is: I am full bolt on (FBO) plus w/m injection and all extra performance hardware - What more can be done to sqeeuze extra power from the motor? The question of high octane fuel & fueling hardware becomes our most important question. At this level the output on a dyno will tell us a little but...we need as many datalogging answers to tell us (how well) the car is making its power and how much more can be extracted.

 

[fluffy]

thanks twinz , got a friend with 2008 135i and JB4, the rest is stock,and i'm wanting to give him feedback as to what he can expect if he does Downpipes and decat next... and get him to put in a dual/twin cone filter.