M54TUB25 Stroker Motor Build

[JacquesCI]

I am sure that most of you has already been introduces to my project 323ci build. From my last photos posted on the new members area it is clear that I have most of the cosmetics sorted out on the car.

This year I would to start working on the performance of the car.

Here is some of the options that I have considered so far.

1) Through away the old M54TUB25 motor and replace it with a 540i V8 motor. After much research I realized that this option will be very expensive and time consuming. Both of which is not a big problem but I am not sure if it will be worth the energy and money.

2) Install a Jap import 3.2 M3 motor. Almost the same problem as the 540i motor. maybe just a little less time consuming.

3) Install a Turbo on the M54tub25 motor. This option is not really that expensive but I do not want to loose the aircon and if this option is not done 100% I am sure that follow up costs will suck me dry.

4) And this is the option that I am currently busy investigating. Converting the M54TUB25 motor into a 3.0L stroker motor. Most of the European and US forums has members that has done this before with good results. According to them all that is needed to complete this mod is a) M54B30 crank, b)M54B30 or M52TUB28 rods and c) M54B30 pistons. There is also a lot of comments on whether it is worth it or not to add the M54B30 head to the mix but then you might as well just go out and purchase a complete M45B30 motor. It is possible to up the power with the standard head by replacing cams and exhaust porting.

I would like as a stage one mod to get at least 160kw out of the M54TUB25 motor.

Can anyone on this forum tell me if this has been done before in SA or not. I would also like to know if Anyone maybe have some of the parts that I am looking for. You can PM me with the costs.

Any help here will be appreciated.

 

[moranor@axis]

M54/m52Tub heads are the same the only difference is the 3l has a different intake cam...

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Going stroker or replacing with a 3l engine is not going to give you big power. You might as well just buy a 330i and call it quits.

I've done the supercharging thing, I had a 323i with M52Tub25 engine, I supercharged it, and ran with e46 M3's... I now own a e46 M3 and am supercharging that.

My opinion would be either Force Induct the engine, be it Turbo or Supercharge, or do an engine swap.

If you are worried about losing your aircon on the turbo install, speak to Burgy at Project Shift, he has just built an e46 M3 that keeps its aircon, not like Sav Speed and other e46 M3's. He has worked closely with HPF in the USA to get a design that works, as he is the Only South African HPF distributor.

I wish you luck with the build man, I've been exactly where you are. Dont give up on the dream.

 

[JacquesCI]

Going stroker or replacing with a 3l engine is not going to give you big power. You might as well just buy a 330i and call it quits.

I've done the supercharging thing, I had a 323i with M52Tub25 engine, I supercharged it, and ran with e46 M3's... I now own a e46 M3 and am supercharging that.

My opinion would be either Force Induct the engine, be it Turbo or Supercharge, or do an engine swap.

If you are worried about losing your aircon on the turbo install, speak to Burgy at Project Shift, he has just built an e46 M3 that keeps its aircon, not like Sav Speed and other e46 M3's. He has worked closely with HPF in the USA to get a design that works, as he is the Only South African HPF distributor.

I wish you luck with the build man, I've been exactly where you are. Dont give up on the dream.

Thanks for the advice.

Where did you get hold the super charger. Do they have to change any internals to fit the super charger to the M54tub25

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Going stroker or replacing with a 3l engine is not going to give you big power. You might as well just buy a 330i and call it quits.

I've done the supercharging thing, I had a 323i with M52Tub25 engine, I supercharged it, and ran with e46 M3's... I now own a e46 M3 and am supercharging that.

My opinion would be either Force Induct the engine, be it Turbo or Supercharge, or do an engine swap.

If you are worried about losing your aircon on the turbo install, speak to Burgy at Project Shift, he has just built an e46 M3 that keeps its aircon, not like Sav Speed and other e46 M3's. He has worked closely with HPF in the USA to get a design that works, as he is the Only South African HPF distributor.

I wish you luck with the build man, I've been exactly where you are. Dont give up on the dream.

Thanks for the advice.

Where did you get hold the super charger. Do they have to change any internals to fit the super charger to the M54tub25

Supercharger was brought in and installed by Burgy at Project Shift. No internals were changed. Didnt even run an intercooler. Car ran perfect for over a year before moving to an M3. The only problems I had was I broke the gearbox, but that is mostly because I installed a lightweight flywheel that didn't fit my gearbox. I am using the same supercharger kit to put into my M3.

www.projectshift.co.za

you will see my car on there. You can also watch the videos of my supercharged 323i on this page here --

[video=youtube]

[video=youtube]

The supercharged 323i did 156kw on the wheels and 304nm on the wheels with 0% ambient correction. Most Dyno's at 20% ambient correction up here in JHB. Safe to say the car was 190-200kw strong with just a bolt on charger, no engine mods, no exhaust mods, no headers, and just a simple tune. We didnt even change the fuel injectors. So there was major room for improvement.

 

[moranor@axis]

dont need internals for supercharger just strap it on, tune it and go :rollsmile:

 

[Gizmo]

Swap in a M54B30 with a 6spd box and a 3.38 or 3.46 diff. It will be the cheapest and easiest conversion as you can use your existing ECU and wiring harness, some TNT headers and a dual 57mm freeflow system and you're done. Finish off the conversion with a chip from Dastek.

Sell your 323i engine and recoup costs.

 

[JacquesCI]

Going stroker or replacing with a 3l engine is not going to give you big power. You might as well just buy a 330i and call it quits.

I've done the supercharging thing, I had a 323i with M52Tub25 engine, I supercharged it, and ran with e46 M3's... I now own a e46 M3 and am supercharging that.

My opinion would be either Force Induct the engine, be it Turbo or Supercharge, or do an engine swap.

If you are worried about losing your aircon on the turbo install, speak to Burgy at Project Shift, he has just built an e46 M3 that keeps its aircon, not like Sav Speed and other e46 M3's. He has worked closely with HPF in the USA to get a design that works, as he is the Only South African HPF distributor.

I wish you luck with the build man, I've been exactly where you are. Dont give up on the dream.

Thanks for the advice.

Where did you get hold the super charger. Do they have to change any internals to fit the super charger to the M54tub25

Supercharger was brought in and installed by Burgy at Project Shift. No internals were changed. Didnt even run an intercooler. Car ran perfect for over a year before moving to an M3. The only problems I had was I broke the gearbox, but that is mostly because I installed a lightweight flywheel that didn't fit my gearbox. I am using the same supercharger kit to put into my M3.

www.projectshift.co.za

you will see my car on there. You can also watch the videos of my supercharged 323i on this page here --

[video=youtube]

[video=youtube]

The supercharged 323i did 156kw on the wheels and 304nm on the wheels with 0% ambient correction. Most Dyno's at 20% ambient correction up here in JHB. Safe to say the car was 190-200kw strong with just a bolt on charger, no engine mods, no exhaust mods, no headers, and just a simple tune. We didnt even change the fuel injectors. So there was major room for improvement.

Do you have a cost estimate on a super charger installed?

 

[Pr0PheT]

sorry to hijack but crash your videos are sick ... awesome editing, filming and of course that 323i was quite special ...

 

[Crash_Nemesis]

Be prepared, this is a long one...

Jacques, when I supercharged my 323i it was mid 2011. I ordered the charger in April of 2011 through Burgy. If I recall it was somwhere in the margine of R50k at the time. The rand was good and there was a special going on at VF Engineering.

I know their Top of the range kit is $8900. That is R80 000 with todays R/$ exchange. When I bought the charger it was R7 to the dollar. That makes it R6200 for the top of teh range M3 charger setup.

I bought the entry level charger setup. Now you need to take into account the costs to import, costs for duty/tax and also the install + Tuning.

We tuned with Dastek UniQ, which is cool because when I move the supercharger over to the M3, the UniQ will come along with and be used in the m3, so the money is well spent there too because we never took their custom tune, nor did we take their injectors, so we saved money that way.

Whether you go and install another Engine or Supercharge. Money will be spent. Its not cheap. So be prepared for that. I know that you can get an e46 M3 engine tomorrow, off the shelf at IPC for R48000 exl Vat. That is without the DME and install. DME is R6000 from Agents I believe. I stand to be corrected.

As Gizmo said, maybe better/cheaper to go with the 3l from a 330i and do a shorter diff ratio for the acceleration boost. Once again, maybe I have complicated issues for you with this info, I just didn't want the headache of installing another engine. I guess you could find someone to install it for you. I know Lee at Gtech is a wizzkid with installation of Engines, so he can be a solution for you.

Answer me this, what power do you want, and I will tell you straight away what I believe is the direction to go. But I warn you, and I was told this before and didn't really believe in it, POWER IS ADDICTIVE, you WILL want more.

 

[JacquesCI]

Be prepared, this is a long one...

Jacques, when I supercharged my 323i it was mid 2011. I ordered the charger in April of 2011 through Burgy. If I recall it was somwhere in the margine of R50k at the time. The rand was good and there was a special going on at VF Engineering.

I know their Top of the range kit is $8900. That is R80 000 with todays R/$ exchange. When I bought the charger it was R7 to the dollar. That makes it R6200 for the top of teh range M3 charger setup.

I bought the entry level charger setup. Now you need to take into account the costs to import, costs for duty/tax and also the install + Tuning.

We tuned with Dastek UniQ, which is cool because when I move the supercharger over to the M3, the UniQ will come along with and be used in the m3, so the money is well spent there too because we never took their custom tune, nor did we take their injectors, so we saved money that way.

Whether you go and install another Engine or Supercharge. Money will be spent. Its not cheap. So be prepared for that. I know that you can get an e46 M3 engine tomorrow, off the shelf at IPC for R48000 exl Vat. That is without the DME and install. DME is R6000 from Agents I believe. I stand to be corrected.

As Gizmo said, maybe better/cheaper to go with the 3l from a 330i and do a shorter diff ratio for the acceleration boost. Once again, maybe I have complicated issues for you with this info, I just didn't want the headache of installing another engine. I guess you could find someone to install it for you. I know Lee at Gtech is a wizzkid with installation of Engines, so he can be a solution for you.

Answer me this, what power do you want, and I will tell you straight away what I believe is the direction to go. But I warn you, and I was told this before and didn't really believe in it, POWER IS ADDICTIVE, you WILL want more.

Thank you all for the awesome feedback.

Crash - I really enjoyed your videos, and thank you for all the advice.
I would like to see at least 170kw on the wheels at the end of the day with a total spend of under 100k. I do not know if this is possible but I would really like to give it a go. My biggest problem with swapping the motor out with any other motor is sorting the re-registration of the car which (and I am not sure of this) will then change the vehicles papers to a rebuilt. I know that I will never sell the car for what I have spent on it (already spent about 110k including the purchase price), but I would at least like to retain as much of the car's value as possible.

Know I also know that I will never get 170kw on the wheels by converting it to a 3.0l stroker alone. I don't know if I will be able to as a second stage install a supercharger or turbo to the stroker motor as the compression ratio might be to high. Maybe you have some thoughts on this.

I would really like some feedback on your supercharged M3 as soon as it is done.

 

[Gizmo]

If you want to keep the car matching numbers then swap the crank, pistons, rods, intake cam, complete intake manifold with airbox and MAF from a 330i into your engine block.

But it works out cheaper to buy a complete 330i motor, swap it in and sell your old motor to recoup costs, changing paperwork for engine swap is simple enough but just make sure before hand that the engine you are buying isn't stolen. Done a few engine swaps in my time to know what is involved.

 

[moranor@axis]

where did you spend the 110k?

seeing as you definitely keeping the car I would say supercharger is the way to go... you will hit and exceed your 170kw with just that and when you want more later you can stroke it out with low compression pistons and add FI cams to hit bigger numbers...

 

[Nikhil]

3,0 liter stroker + charger :rollsmile:

 

[Gizmo]

There is no replacement for displacement! Its more reliable and will give you the same if not better gas mileage you getting now! Once you go boost, budget and fuel consumption goes way south and @ R12 per litre you won't want to drive it.

If it isn't your daily then go 3.0lt and boost!

 

[JacquesCI]

where did you spend the 110k?

seeing as you definitely keeping the car I would say supercharger is the way to go... you will hit and exceed your 170kw with just that and when you want more later you can stroke it out with low compression pistons and add FI cams to hit bigger numbers...

I bought the car at a Bank repo auction as a non runner (head was missing and interior was in a bad state). I made the mistake by inspecting the car in a dark warehouse and could not really tell in what the body condition was, although it looked straight and shiny, the day when I collected the car and they towed it into the sun I should have just said cancel the transaction but I wanted to do this project so bad that I just thought to myself (and convinced the wife) that it wasn't so bad as it looked.

Well needles to say I landed up doing the following
1) Completely rebuilding the motor (lost of parts was missing)
2) the radiator was shot and a new one was installed
3) Refurbished the gearbox
4) New side shafts was needed
5) Almost the hole front suspension needed rebuilding
6) Installed E46 M3 Napa leather seats as the old ones was to far gone.
7) Installed a new satnav as the factory fitted one was missing parts in the boot
8) Complete resprayed the car.
9) Refurbished the mags
10) LCM was blown
11) sunroof wasn't working so replaced the harness.
12) Passenger door window regulator and door lock was faulty.

and the list just goes on and on.........

Before I knew it the wifey one day comes into the garage asking when I am going to stop spending money on this piece of junk and that she has just added all of my various cost together with the total standing on R 110 583.

So yes the plan is to keep it and make something really special of it.

I think I will be looking at the supercharger route but I would still like to convert it into a 3.0l before installing the supercharger.

 

[moranor@axis]

engine running yet?

 

[JacquesCI]

:blab:

engine running yet?

Engine is running excellent!!

Here is some of the building phase pics

 

[moranor@axis]

seeing as the engine is not still in pieces i would just charge it

 

[Burgy]

If you plan to stroke the engine now and supercharge at a later stage then I suggest stronger engine internals.

Cp pistons, rods, arps everywhere, 330i crank, upgraded bearings. I would also slightly drop the compression in anticipation of the supercharger.

If you are going to do an engine transplant, you can still add the charger kit without doing your engine internals.

Basically, with a non built motor, we'll use a 0.4bar pulley wheel and with a built motor, 0.8bar

Other parts that need some attention/upgrading when going forced induction route:

Clutch + Flywheel
Suspension
Brakes
Full exhaust system or atleast decat

If you do decide to go the built motor and 0.8bar route, you'll also have to look at upgrading the fueling system, ie pump, lines etc.


To fully build the motor and then supercharge it is going to cost quite a bit. Best advice is whichever method you decide, do not cut corners!

You can come passed the office anytime and I can help you draw up a plan for the car.