splintheter
///Member
Revs said:
an after market warranty on an M3 is Pointless. It will cover only the fraction of the cost. Your best insurance policy is to spend the R25k an get the bearings done. Thats the way I look at it anyway.
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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
M3 E90'2'3 Rod Bearing Problems And Cost
- Thread starter Revs
- Start date
an after market warranty on an M3 is Pointless. It will cover only the fraction of the cost. Your best insurance policy is to spend the R25k an get the bearings done. Thats the way I look at it anyway.
After reading up a lot on this, even overseas, I can tell you that its a major issue. Yes, there might be a few success stories with guys running high milers without incident but the majority say, change bearings before you have to change an engine.
If I were you, I would spend the money and get the bearings done as soon as you get the car. It will give you peace of mind knowing you have a healthy S65 that you can drive properly without worries.
Best of luck man
If I were you, I would spend the money and get the bearings done as soon as you get the car. It will give you peace of mind knowing you have a healthy S65 that you can drive properly without worries.
Best of luck man
flyitlikearental
Member
Personally I would also take it to Peter for bearing work. He is almost as meticulous as I am, and frankly the only person I trust with a wrench within a mile of my car. As for after service, stellar. Had a couple of issues with my E46 engine rebuild, and Peter did not once leave me to my own devices. Came through for me with support every time, and is a pleasure to work with! Granted, his work comes at a premium,but the old adage, you get what you pay for. Now, I'm not saying the other guys work isn't on par, I just prefer working with Peter for the reasons stated above. In my experience in the times where there was a problem, Peter stepped up to the plate in a big way. My car has never been better, and that I can only attribute to a meticulous attention to the smallest of details during the build.
flyitlikearental said:
Im glad you have had such a good experience, however, it cannot just be ignored that many have not.
"Granted, his work comes at a premium,but the old adage, you get what you pay for."
While I agree with this to an extent, there is paying a premium and then there is being ripped off. I would much rather go to a shop where a warranty is offered and adhered to.
Donovan2412
///Member
Burgy said:
I think you've had your say.
Give others a chance now..
Maybe just get a poll together of how many cars were fixed vs how many were not. List the cars that went either way. A track record will speak wonders and also advise us users whether or not the services can or cannot be used.
In that way...we stop derailing this and other future threads.
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
In that way...we stop derailing this and other future threads.
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Donovan2412
///Member
Twinz@TheFanatics said:
↑ ↑ ↑
Arbee
Honorary ///Member
Burgy, you have said enough. Let the OP choose where he wants to send his car. Give it a break bud, we get Chris's frustrations with Peter. We all make mistakes. Some are handled, some are not. It would be nice for Peter and Chris to get together and resolve this. But please, not here.Burgy said:
Again, you and Chris have answered with first hand information, we thank you, let it go now. Please...
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gavsadler
///Member
I have another question, or rather a few questions around this:
1) are the OEM bearings somewhat inferior that they only last approx. 100000kms?
2) Are replacements of a better quality?
3) Or are these motors just harsh on bearings and this will be an ongoing maintenance issue as such- replacing engine bearings every 100000kms (or less as the engine gets older) for the life of the car?
1) are the OEM bearings somewhat inferior that they only last approx. 100000kms?
2) Are replacements of a better quality?
3) Or are these motors just harsh on bearings and this will be an ongoing maintenance issue as such- replacing engine bearings every 100000kms (or less as the engine gets older) for the life of the car?
Crash_Nemesis
///Member
@Gavsadler,
The bearing clearances are too tight. One must also remember that the M3's have high revving engines with piston speeds of over 25 meters per second @ 8000rpm (one can imagine the stress this creates on the moving parts). There is also the question of the oil being used. For example. When the oil is cold, it is thick and thus difficult to get between the bearings/crank/rods. When the car is warmed up, the viscosity changes which allows the oil to now get into the tight clearances and keep the moving parts lubed up.
The aftermarket bearings such as the Vac bearings have a special coating that protects the bearings for a longer period, but I would not say they are a permanent fix, but I have never heard of Vac Bearings being thrown.
It comes down to driver responsibility really. Make sure the car warms up properly before driving her hard, else the oil doesn't get where it needs to and premature ware sets in.
There are countless threads on M3forum.com about other oils that are not the recommended 10w-60 and thus have a different viscosity which is said to help with engine starting and warm up, allowing the oil to reach into the tight spaces without needing much warming up, but those oils are not rated for high temperatures, thus prolonged hard driving is ill advised. You will also find some threads have included lab results, some stating that these oils prolong bearing life, and that the reason for BMW's use of a 10w60 oil was to save their skins when it comes to the track day ventures, where these engines will be running on very high temperatures for prolonged periods. These accusations are just that, but they may have a point. An interesting read none the less.
May I suggest a new thread be made and we invite Bahnstomer to post some findings that he may have. He has performed many oil analysis tests from his e46 M3 and I think his findings are impressive.
With that being said, I have heard Mobil 1 has a synthetic oil that works wonders on our S54 engines, I cannot comment on the use of Mobil 1 on the S65 and S85 engines.
The bearing clearances are too tight. One must also remember that the M3's have high revving engines with piston speeds of over 25 meters per second @ 8000rpm (one can imagine the stress this creates on the moving parts). There is also the question of the oil being used. For example. When the oil is cold, it is thick and thus difficult to get between the bearings/crank/rods. When the car is warmed up, the viscosity changes which allows the oil to now get into the tight clearances and keep the moving parts lubed up.
The aftermarket bearings such as the Vac bearings have a special coating that protects the bearings for a longer period, but I would not say they are a permanent fix, but I have never heard of Vac Bearings being thrown.
It comes down to driver responsibility really. Make sure the car warms up properly before driving her hard, else the oil doesn't get where it needs to and premature ware sets in.
There are countless threads on M3forum.com about other oils that are not the recommended 10w-60 and thus have a different viscosity which is said to help with engine starting and warm up, allowing the oil to reach into the tight spaces without needing much warming up, but those oils are not rated for high temperatures, thus prolonged hard driving is ill advised. You will also find some threads have included lab results, some stating that these oils prolong bearing life, and that the reason for BMW's use of a 10w60 oil was to save their skins when it comes to the track day ventures, where these engines will be running on very high temperatures for prolonged periods. These accusations are just that, but they may have a point. An interesting read none the less.
May I suggest a new thread be made and we invite Bahnstomer to post some findings that he may have. He has performed many oil analysis tests from his e46 M3 and I think his findings are impressive.
With that being said, I have heard Mobil 1 has a synthetic oil that works wonders on our S54 engines, I cannot comment on the use of Mobil 1 on the S65 and S85 engines.
gavsadler said:
The OEM bearings are not of inferior quality.
Clevite makes the bearings for BMW.
People such as VAC etc buy their bearings from BMW and then proceed to treat them with various coatings.
The engines are harsh on bearings given their high revability and very narrow bearing surface.
The width of the bearing is the same on the I6 V8 and V10 and all of them have a limit in the +8000rpm.
What is of particular interest is that there are countless M engines in the 200000Km range with no bearing issues as there are 80000Km engines with various stages of bearing failure.
On the V engines the matter becomes even more complex with rods rubbing against each other and generating heat to the point of discolouring the metal on the big end of the conrod which has the knock on effect of promoting bearing failure.
BMW is keeping silent about the bearing issue so we will not really know whether the failures are induced due to oil viscosity, too narrow a load bearing surface.detonation or something else.
I have equally not read something definitive proving the reason for the failure of the big end bearings and I guess the only people (BMW)who have a reliable record are keeping quiet about it.
What we read on the various forums is too small a sample given the total production numbers to be able to draw conclusive and irrefutable proof on the reasons for the failures.
For my money I would prefer to spend the money overhauling bearings as opposed to rebuilding a motor.
individj
Well-known member
to add to the above. I am not sure if i read this on this forum so I'm sorry i can't give that info but apparently the new OEM bearings give more clearance. (they have been changed) Someone measured them & they are different to the original bearings. That combined with different oil & shorter oil change intervals should really change things.
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