G80/G82 – M3/M4 Pricing in South Africa (Zero2Turbo)

[aksamg]

is this seriously correct?

A near double the price difference has become 0?!

Absolute madness - goes to show where we are really getting shafted too. My handy inflation calculator says R365k should be just over R1m today. Meanwhile the porsche should be around the R1.9m mark.

So in real terms the 911 is the same price as it was 20yrs ago and the BMW has doubled.

So much for "blah blah weak rand". BMW SA are pretty much forcing enthusiasts to get Porsches.

This reminds me of.... https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/threads/the-value-of-r1m.95387/page-4#post-1448185

 

[MR_Y]

Unless if Porsche has a financing model to compete with BMW's Select Finance (GFV), the M's will still sell more. Most people look at monthly instalment versus total cost of credit. This means that many of those 'wallets' can't really afford the Porsche on traditional finance structures (even with max balloon).

It's no longer about which is the better car, it's about who can give me the lowest installment.

You hit the nail on the head here.
BMW has the financial muscle to structure GFV or balloon deals to make expensive cars seem "affordable".

 

[TurboLlew]

@MR_Y and @Veedub why are you under the impression that GFV is something only BMW or other mainstream manufacturers are able to do? Or that this requires 'financial muscle' or anything other than an agreement with various stakeholders in the chain?

It is simply not attractive on cars at this level because in theory they should not be as disposable as repmobiles... but of course South Africans use these things to show off rather than what the actual purpose is supposed to be for. The irony is the highest GFV values should apply to cars that will inherently retain more value by virtue of the combination of rarity/badge/quality/free market value etc...

Anyway this is for an Aston Martin Vantage (new V8 TT one) which is the only real example I have on hand. I went in looking at used McLarens and a Ferrari. You can get into a brand new AM for that sort of money if you do a few gymnastics and they at least stand behind the value. This serves a totally different purpose to affordability... you can already afford a R3M car - they want you to get into a new one and to have some confidence in the value given AMs history of depreciation prior to them becoming prettier AMG GTs mechanically and electronically...

An M8 by comparison has lost between 300K (sitting on the floor) and R450K (8000 odd km) in one year. We all know what that curve looks like from that point on.... and we also know the cars advertised on autotrader will likely sell for less than the current marked prices...

There are examples from McLaren, Porsche and AM owners where their cars values have improved to the degree they walk in and get what they paid for it (in the case of a GT3 RS owner's story recently, more than he paid). You are now comparing cars like this to BMWs that depreciate through the floor to the degree even the dealer won't take them back in some cases.

Yes nobody (Daytona/Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini) goes to the degree of advertising it and it is really targeted, but then these guys are not your typical car salesmen either so they also know their audience and who is just moneyed/who is an enthusiast stretching to get one/who wants to show off etc... rather than everyone parroting that 'ah well everyone does it so I must also do GFV'. We want to think that BMW gives good service while being too scared to just go and talk to a few other places. We have also told ourselves as a community that 'these prices are normal' and you think that Porsche is going to laugh at you or you will be laughed out of Daytona. MOST of the cars that these places sell are CHEAPER than what you find at BMW (albeit not new). There are Ferraris at 2 bar at Daytona and Ferrari (in some cases even with plan remaining), there are McLarens you can get under 3 bar (these are the prices that BMW is asking for M8s and M5s and M4s). There are Porsches that are now cheaper than BMWs as we have seen in this thread. If you are buying a 2 million rand car (of any kind) and you are terrified of expenses/maintenance/warranties you need to take a long hard look in the mirror before you even spend that on a BMW brand new with a motorplan and financed to the hilt (besides which some of these brands come with up to 10 year plans extendible to 15).

Let's not talk about performance because tuned AWD M340is are going to give us a return to the E92/335i days where they will slaughter stock (or I think tuned for that matter) RWD M3s and M4s at an 800K discount...

Again I say, if you are spending R750K every 5 years and giving the thing back to BMW - regardless of how they give you the illusion of 'financial prudence' or 'doing what rich people do', you will never have nice things... the same people will poke fun at someone in an older Porsche or Ferrari who hasn't bought a car in 7 or 8 years despite them having spent just as much or even more on cars that are worth nothing in the end (let's not talk about interest etc).

If you're an exec or sales person at a company and it is part of your car allowance scheme or fleet scheme etc of course go ahead and buy an 800K 330i. But don't now go and see that person in that thing and tell yourself 'hey everyone's doing it, so should I'.

 

[NBN]

I cant speak for anyone else, but my passion for the latest models started to falter when they started introducing that fake exhaust emulator sounds into the cabin.......... other then the price point of these car's, i really dont have that lust or desire to spend my hard earned cash on them, i still prefer the ol skool, old mentality beamers . If i had 1bar+ to spend on a car, lets just say it would rather be something older that comes from Stuttgart!

 

[Veedub]

@TurboLlew On the AM deal, what is the monthly repayment and deposit required?

I think the statement that "Yes nobody (Daytona/Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini) goes to the degree of advertising it" is probably why customers will go to BMW (i.e. embarrassed to be 'chased' out of Daytona, but know that BMW advertises a new car for Rx per month). A salesman at ABM told me that majority of the new car deals are done on GFV structures - if not, the customers could never afford the vehicles on traditional structures.

Real world disposable incomes are falling, but people still want to keep up appearances. The OEM's that can offer the lowest monthly installment (regardless of total cost of credit) will win the sales. Yes, there is still the portion of the population with real money. They are the ones who will look at depreciating rates, etc. The majority of buyers just want an M car in their yard, for the lowest possible instalment.

Also, see this article...‘Netflix for cars’ to become popular in South Africa: Wesbank motor chief executive (businesstech.co.za)

 

[TurboLlew]

@TurboLlew On the AM deal, what is the monthly repayment and deposit required?

I think the statement that "Yes nobody (Daytona/Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini) goes to the degree of advertising it" is probably why customers will go to BMW (i.e. embarrassed to be 'chased' out of Daytona, but know that BMW advertises a new car for Rx per month). A salesman at ABM told me that majority of the new car deals are done on GFV structures - if not, the customers could never afford the vehicles on traditional structures.

Real world disposable incomes are falling, but people still want to keep up appearances. The OEM's that can offer the lowest monthly installment (regardless of total cost of credit) will win the sales. Yes, there is still the portion of the population with real money. They are the ones who will look at depreciating rates, etc. The majority of buyers just want an M car in their yard, for the lowest possible instalment.

Also, see this article...‘Netflix for cars’ to become popular in South Africa: Wesbank motor chief executive (businesstech.co.za)

I can't remember off the top of my head but I was putting a fair bit in. Will see if I can find the email later.

Netflix for cars: I need alot more time to process the problems in logic associated with it. There are generational differences in attitude and philosophy and then there is using it to wave away serious employment/market issues at play. There is a big difference between WANTING to take up a rental service and NEEDING to take one up because your economic circumstances don't allow for it.

"My generation" is looked down upon for having cars that are worth the same or more than the houses we are living in (in the minds of neighbors) whilst those we are living next to and purchased maybe 2 or 3 years prior paid a FRACTION of that pre boom. In other words they might see your R1M car in a house that is in their minds R800K but which you might have paid R2.5M for... I simply didn't have enough money to fully take advantage of the property market at the time (prices were already high when I entered the market) and we have never experienced that insane growth (eg: where people have paid or are even still paying 400K or 500K bonds on R4 and R5M properties. I am still lucky in that I had rapid career growth that helped me still get in... There are PLENTY of guys who are now in their 30s and early 40s who never received inheritances or generational properties. You see the same kind of language used for this generation and property (eg: more willing to move and rent and not willing to set down roots) to explain this away as though nothing is objectively wrong with the bigger picture and it is a 'generational preference'. The older generations look down on them as though they don't have their lives together because they aren't living in mansions... OR your family starts to wonder how you're earning so much but you're living in a place a quarter the size of the family home... They have no appreciation for the difficulty in entering the market now for many in the newer generations... There are also the same tired responses from agents on the forum as well as older members about property being a great investment: Sure maybe for them... but not now and certainly not with some of the other dynamics at play... or that property cannot be a bubble in SA blah blah blah.

Anyway the reason for that example is that we are now 'looking down' at the next generations and generalising as though they PREFER these models as opposed to outright ownership... I also would have preferred to have a different property ownership experience and build up a massive portfolio with relatively little capital outlay. Fortunately and unfortunately I have had the experience of having peers 10 to 15 years older than me in many roles so far in life. It is VERY apparent what simply being born a little too late into a family with limited resources has on things...

Either way, a vehicle and a home used to mean freedom... it was freedom that was also tangibly close. This is getting further and further away I think... and not for the reasons CEOs seem to think (or tell the market)

 

[Veedub]

Thanks, @TurboLlew I am just trying to understand the difference in how the non-mainstream (I wanted to say premium, but then BMW's cost more than AM's these days, so not sure what is considered premium any more) dealers structure these GFV deals. I expect that they may want a lot higher initial deposit, which then separates the cash rich customers from the paper rich ones.

 

[PsyCLown]

Netflix for cars: I need alot more time to process the problems in logic associated with it. There are generational differences in attitude and philosophy and then there is using it to wave away serious employment/market issues at play. There is a big difference between WANTING to take up a rental service and NEEDING to take one up because your economic circumstances don't allow for it.

"My generation" is looked down upon for having cars that are worth the same or more than the houses we are living in (in the minds of neighbors) whilst those we are living next to and purchased maybe 2 or 3 years prior paid a FRACTION of that pre boom. In other words they might see your R1M car in a house that is in their minds R800K but which you might have paid R2.5M for... I simply didn't have enough money to fully take advantage of the property market at the time (prices were already high when I entered the market) and we have never experienced that insane growth (eg: where people have paid or are even still paying 400K or 500K bonds on R4 and R5M properties. I am still lucky in that I had rapid career growth that helped me still get in... There are PLENTY of guys who are now in their 30s and early 40s who never received inheritances or generational properties. You see the same kind of language used for this generation and property (eg: more willing to move and rent and not willing to set down roots) to explain this away as though nothing is objectively wrong with the bigger picture and it is a 'generational preference'. The older generations look down on them as though they don't have their lives together because they aren't living in mansions... OR your family starts to wonder how you're earning so much but you're living in a place a quarter the size of the family home... They have no appreciation for the difficulty in entering the market now for many in the newer generations... There are also the same tired responses from agents on the forum as well as older members about property being a great investment: Sure maybe for them... but not now and certainly not with some of the other dynamics at play... or that property cannot be a bubble in SA blah blah blah.

Anyway the reason for that example is that we are now 'looking down' at the next generations and generalising as though they PREFER these models as opposed to outright ownership... I also would have preferred to have a different property ownership experience and build up a massive portfolio with relatively little capital outlay. Fortunately and unfortunately I have had the experience of having peers 10 to 15 years older than me in many roles so far in life. It is VERY apparent what simply being born a little too late into a family with limited resources has on things...

Either way, a vehicle and a home used to mean freedom... it was freedom that was also tangibly close. This is getting further and further away I think... and not for the reasons CEOs seem to think (or tell the market)

I feel you have really hit the nail on the head with regards to this. I have seen it myself where the older generation "looks down" at the younger generation and expects them to follow suit, they expect the younger generation to do the same as they have... Life isn't quite the same as it was a decade or two, three or even four ago.

 

[Woodies]

I loved the fact that the M3 used to be the "cheaper" underdog to almost give the proper sports cars a run for it.
Hopefully the new generation of M3 and M4 consumers aren't reading this thread and don't start buying Porsche. Its madness that M3/M4 is more than a decent Porsche. My 10 minutes of test driving a Porsche left me with the feeling of "I want this car NOW", BMW's don't give me that same feeling anymore.

 

[individj]

I can't remember off the top of my head but I was putting a fair bit in. Will see if I can find the email later.

Netflix for cars: I need alot more time to process the problems in logic associated with it. There are generational differences in attitude and philosophy and then there is using it to wave away serious employment/market issues at play. There is a big difference between WANTING to take up a rental service and NEEDING to take one up because your economic circumstances don't allow for it.

"My generation" is looked down upon for having cars that are worth the same or more than the houses we are living in (in the minds of neighbors) whilst those we are living next to and purchased maybe 2 or 3 years prior paid a FRACTION of that pre boom. In other words they might see your R1M car in a house that is in their minds R800K but which you might have paid R2.5M for... I simply didn't have enough money to fully take advantage of the property market at the time (prices were already high when I entered the market) and we have never experienced that insane growth (eg: where people have paid or are even still paying 400K or 500K bonds on R4 and R5M properties. I am still lucky in that I had rapid career growth that helped me still get in... There are PLENTY of guys who are now in their 30s and early 40s who never received inheritances or generational properties. You see the same kind of language used for this generation and property (eg: more willing to move and rent and not willing to set down roots) to explain this away as though nothing is objectively wrong with the bigger picture and it is a 'generational preference'. The older generations look down on them as though they don't have their lives together because they aren't living in mansions... OR your family starts to wonder how you're earning so much but you're living in a place a quarter the size of the family home... They have no appreciation for the difficulty in entering the market now for many in the newer generations... There are also the same tired responses from agents on the forum as well as older members about property being a great investment: Sure maybe for them... but not now and certainly not with some of the other dynamics at play... or that property cannot be a bubble in SA blah blah blah.

Anyway the reason for that example is that we are now 'looking down' at the next generations and generalising as though they PREFER these models as opposed to outright ownership... I also would have preferred to have a different property ownership experience and build up a massive portfolio with relatively little capital outlay. Fortunately and unfortunately I have had the experience of having peers 10 to 15 years older than me in many roles so far in life. It is VERY apparent what simply being born a little too late into a family with limited resources has on things...

Either way, a vehicle and a home used to mean freedom... it was freedom that was also tangibly close. This is getting further and further away I think... and not for the reasons CEOs seem to think (or tell the market)

had a convo recently with a bitter b!tch and i told her you were in that house because youre older than me...i had to work so much harder & pay so much more...im not upset about it but understand the hustle.

 

[TurboLlew]

had a convo recently with a bitter b!tch and i told her you were in that house because youre older than me...i had to work so much harder & pay so much more...im not upset about it but understand the hustle.

Its a strange dynamic that we sit with because it isn't "old money" and "new money" mixing as you find higher up in the food chain. It is "new money" and old middle/working class... just that in the old days you could afford a decent home without earning within the top 1%. I am amazed that people are on one hand proud that their property has appreciated in value or that they have 5 other properties on rent that they also paid nothing for... but then they are disdainful of those who move in as their neighbours or tenants...

Generational wealth is definitely a thing as well. I have been raising two kids in my current home with two incomes. Make no mistake: despite being very conscious of money etc. it is a big stretch to get to the next level of anything... but there are plenty of people who make you feel like you're doing something very wrong in life. I have had several buyers interested in it as a gift to their kids starting out in life or a wedding gift... and then getting feedback that it is too small for that purpose... SIGH

 

[Vroomvroom]

The M3 and M4 were simultaneously revealed back in September 2020, with local models said to be available from March 2021. The local lineup is initially limited to the Competition models, which produce more power (375 kW/650 Nm compared with 353 kW and 550 Nm) and are exclusively fitted with an 8-speed dual-clutch gearbox. The South African allocation will initially be rear-wheel-drive only. Later on, BMW will bring in the xDrive version which is equipped with all-wheel-drive and a selectable rear-wheel-drive mode. Expect these towards the end of 2021.

There's no need to worry about losing control, however, as BMW has fitted the new M3 and M4 with an M Dynamic mode that gives the driver access to 10 stages of traction control, similar to something you would see in a GT racing car where a driver progressively adds or removes traction control depending on the grip levels. As has become custom on M models, shortcut buttons on the steering wheel (M1 and M2) allow the driver to pre-programme their favourite settings so they can be quickly accessed without having to struggle through the iDrive menus.

The official spec on the new M models hasn't been publicised yet, but we're hoping that SA buyers will have access to the optional M Race Track Package, which is said to reduce vehicle weight by around 25 kg thanks to features including M Carbon ceramic brakes, special M light-alloy wheels and M Carbon bucket seats.

Thanks to Zero2Turbo.

BMW M3 /M4 Price in South Africa (January 2021)
BMW M3 R1 860 000
BMW M4 R1 940 000

The price in Europe for the latest M4 is 68320 Euros which is (Rand at 17,47/Euro) about R 1,2M . Here is SA the price is R1,86. Can somebody please explain why we have to cough up almost R700.000 more? I would have been happy to upgrade my old M4 to a new M4 was it not for this ridiculous price. I upgraded my motorplan in stead and will look at an electric sports car like Tesla or similar when they arrive in 2022 coz BMW has completely lost the plot.

 

[TurboLlew]

The price in Europe for the latest M4 is 68320 Euros which is (Rand at 17,47/Euro) about R 1,2M . Here is SA the price is R1,86. Can somebody please explain why we have to cough up almost R700.000 more? I would have been happy to upgrade my old M4 to a new M4 was it not for this ridiculous price. I upgraded my motorplan in stead and will look at an electric sports car like Tesla or similar when they arrive in 2022 coz BMW has completely lost the plot.

R1.95M and good luck finding one for that price since they all seem to be over 2.2M... BMW Doesn't do discounts of any sort anymore.

We have some other theories in other threads as to why - it isn't exclusively the import duties etc since all manufacturers are subject to this. Their relative positioning vs. eg Porsche is very out of kilter. While mainstream brands were gouging their way upwards (or perhaps 'protecting' their other bubble in the form of GFVs...) they forgot to expand their competitor universes LOL.

Just my 2c...

 

[Veedub]

It does look like Audi is being a bit aggressive in the pricing of their RS models...

 

[TurboLlew]

My 2c: TT RS has become one of the best value cars for the money. Relatively rare, high quality, giant-killing power if you want to mod, relatively reliable and everyone I know who has one loves theirs...

 

[Vroomvroom]

R1.95M and good luck finding one for that price since they all seem to be over 2.2M... BMW Doesn't do discounts of any sort anymore.

We have some other theories in other threads as to why - it isn't exclusively the import duties etc since all manufacturers are subject to this. Their relative positioning vs. eg Porsche is very out of kilter. While mainstream brands were gouging their way upwards (or perhaps 'protecting' their other bubble in the form of GFVs...) they forgot to expand their competitor universes LOL.

Just my 2c...

BMW told me they only import the new M3/4 in competition pack because the standard version is "only 50k cheaper". Add some extras and it gets to M2.2. I wonder how many M fans they will lose. I think that the previous M3/4 models should slowly adopt a good resale value seen that a new M is now out of reach of many M fans and for the ones who can still afford it, they will probably start looking at better quality cars like Porsche, Tesla ,...

 

[TurboLlew]

Tesla is terrible quality incidentally... if they ever arrive here I doubt they will find success since they will have to compete with mainstream companies and their electric options

 

[TBP88]

The price in Europe for the latest M4 is 68320 Euros which is (Rand at 17,47/Euro) about R 1,2M . Here is SA the price is R1,86. Can somebody please explain why we have to cough up almost R700.000 more? I would have been happy to upgrade my old M4 to a new M4 was it not for this ridiculous price. I upgraded my motorplan in stead and will look at an electric sports car like Tesla or similar when they arrive in 2022 coz BMW has completely lost the plot.

Not sure where you see that pricing? I know in the UK the M4 base is around 75k GBP (which would be more like 90k EUR) - bringing the prices much more in line with what we pay.

I don't think it is so much "Safrican's overpay for cars (we do, but not heavily)". More that BMW is pricing the new M3/4 stupidly (hell, it's not even like the RS5 is cheap - it's just priced properly - +-25% discount to a 911 is what the traditional big 3 used to charge for their performance saloon).

 

[Vroomvroom]

Not sure where you see that pricing? I know in the UK the M4 base is around 75k GBP (which would be more like 90k EUR) - bringing the prices much more in line with what we pay.

I don't think it is so much "Safrican's overpay for cars (we do, but not heavily)". More that BMW is pricing the new M3/4 stupidly (hell, it's not even like the RS5 is cheap - it's just priced properly - +-25% discount to a 911 is what the traditional big 3 used to charge for their performance saloon).

BMW M4 2021 Price In Germany , Features And Specs - Ccarprice DEU

Latest BMW M4 2021 price in Germany 2020 and detail specs, Get Market Rate of BMW M4 2021 online before buying BMW M4 2021 in de

www.ccarprice.com

 

[TBP88]

BMW M4 2021 Price In Germany , Features And Specs - Ccarprice DEU

Latest BMW M4 2021 price in Germany 2020 and detail specs, Get Market Rate of BMW M4 2021 online before buying BMW M4 2021 in de

www.ccarprice.com

Crickey - wonder how they get it so cheap in DE relative to UK... Might be preferential taxes to buy a locally built car or something like that.