E34 540i/6 VS E34 M5 3.8

[Sankekur]

I can pretty much guarantee you that you could changed the diff in the 540i to a 3.15 or a 3.64 and the end result would have been the same, with the M5 way in front.

What I meant was that you're no longer comparing stock cars, which means it's quite a pointless what-if scenario.

You realise that changing the final drive does not change the performance/power, right?

Uhm, it actually showed it perfectly you could see how the cars are very closely match at lower speeds with the gap becoming ever larger as the speeds increases.

Ergo, the car with more power and better gearing pulls away from the car with less power and poorer gearing?

uh you questioned the validity of this race as a proper comparison for the the different power delivery profiles of the motors used, I replied that that you could see the results of the differing power profiles in the video...in light of this your above statement make no sense.

 

[Fordkoppie]

Pics or it never happened.

:rollsmile:

in 5th on the speed limiter

But obviously this was done inside the garage with the rear wheels in the air, because no one would be as irresponsible doing this without a seatbelt. I mean seatbelts always saves lives....

Some local proof that even the 3.6 M5 is stronger @ topend than the 540i/6 [video=youtube]

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I didn't know much about the E34's when I had my 535i but with the Black widow chip I outran the M5's comfartably on a 6k run back in the day.

I suppose it is safe to say your M30 3.5 was an Alpina B10 BT, because that will be the only M30 in history that will be able to beat the M5 in stock form.

 

[madness_inc]

Nope. E30 M3 was a 2.3 and the top of the range non M was a 2.5 i6

325is and 333i?
2.7 and 3.3, though you could argue that each is a product (partially) of the M division

 

[speeddemon]

Pics or it never happened.

:rollsmile:

in 5th on the speed limiter

But obviously this was done inside the garage with the rear wheels in the air, because no one would be as irresponsible doing this without a seatbelt. I mean seatbelts always saves lives....

Some local proof that even the 3.6 M5 is stronger @ topend than the 540i/6 [video=youtube]

---

I didn't know much about the E34's when I had my 535i but with the Black widow chip I outran the M5's comfartably on a 6k run back in the day.

I suppose it is safe to say your M30 3.5 was an Alpina B10 BT, because that will be the only M30 in history that will be able to beat the M5 in stock form.

---

I honestly dont know Fordkoppie....like i said i was quite surprised myself...I ran against some other 535's and it was ugly for them....but still big respect to the M5...:thumbs:

 

[Sankekur]

I would like to say you would have known if it was an alpina B10 bi-turbo...

It is one of the few M30 powered cars I want to own.

 

[Fordkoppie]

I would like to say you would have known if it was an alpina B10 bi-turbo...

It is one of the few M30 powered cars I want to own.

Possibly, although I don't know about that.

They are quite understated

 

[speeddemon]

I would like to say you would have known if it was an alpina B10 bi-turbo...

It is one of the few M30 powered cars I want to own.

What a beauty that israise:
Was def not a Alpina B10 then.....like i said...I owned it when i knew nothing about beemers...was my first beemer as well.I still dont know much about beemers other than to just enjoy them:rollsmile:

Anyway...I dint think one could call mine stock because of the chip and gearbox change on it.. maybe that's the reason why it ran like it did:thumbs:

 

[Budleigh]

You realise that changing the final drive does not change the performance/power, right?

What I was saying is that even if the 540i's rear end ratio was not so tall, it probably wouldn't change the outcome of the race. This follows on from my saying that if the 540i wasn't limited, I still don't think it would close in on an M5 at the top-end, because it's 6th gear is overgeared. Are you following so far? The comment on the diff was more a musing that even giving it a sportier final drive - placing the engine in the meaty part of its power band - wouldn't fundamentally shift the outcome.

Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, I'm not certain why this is unclear.

uh you questioned the validity of this race as a proper comparison for the the different power delivery profiles of the motors used, I replied that that you could see the results of the differing power profiles in the video...in light of this your above statement make no sense.

Granted, perhaps I didn't put my point across clearly enough. My point was that I would expect the faster car to pull away and to continue pulling away. That the 540i hangs onto its coat-tails briefly doesn't merit mentioning, because of how it's profiled compared to the M5.

 

[Redline]

I would like to say you would have known if it was an alpina B10 bi-turbo...

It is one of the few M30 powered cars I want to own.

Possibly, although I don't know about that.

They are quite understated

Aaah,

Yes definatly one for the dream garage twin turbo'd before it became fashionable

 

[Sankekur]

Ok so to recap:

it's ridiculously overgeared in stock form. Once you start talking about diff swaps, it's a different quantity altogether.

Ok, so you can't compare the two cars if one has had its diff swapped?

I can pretty much guarantee you that you could changed the diff in the 540i to a 3.15 or a 3.64 and the end result would have been the same, with the M5 way in front.

I say that the outcome will be the same irrespective of the final drive.

What I meant was that you're no longer comparing stock cars, which means it's quite a pointless what-if scenario.

You say you can't compare stock with non stock? (As before)

You realise that changing the final drive does not change the performance/power, right?

I request insight into your understanding or lack thereof of what a change in final drive actually does.

What I was saying is that even if the 540i's rear end ratio was not so tall, it probably wouldn't change the outcome of the race.

Where did you say this? Expect right here of course.

....doesn't merit mentioning....

It is because you discount things that you deem to be of no importance that you can't appreciate the performance comparison, the validity of it, and the all the information gained.

 

[Peter@AEW]

Clearly the "Black Widow" chip was the MKIII version as everyone knows that the MKII and MKI versions did not increase the power of the M30 by 300Kw.
:flyfun:
:bravo:
:yuck:

 

[speeddemon]

Clearly the "Black Widow" chip was the MKIII version as everyone knows that the MKII and MKI versions did not increase the power of the M30 by 300Kw.
:flyfun:
:bravo:
:yuck:

This is probably directed at me...anyway...like i said..I had and still have no clue about what the black widow chip was back then..MKI to MKIII with increase of 3kw up to 300kw...doesn't matter buddy..fact is my 535 ran comfy infront of M5's on a 6k run..
You dont need to believe it...it is what it was:thumbs::bravo:

 

[Peter@AEW]

Clearly the "Black Widow" chip was the MKIII version as everyone knows that the MKII and MKI versions did not increase the power of the M30 by 300Kw.
:flyfun:
:bravo:
:yuck:

This is probably directed at me...anyway...like i said..I had and still have no clue about what the black widow chip was back then..MKI to MKIII with increase of 3kw up to 300kw...doesn't matter buddy..fact is my 535 ran comfy infront of M5's on a 6k run..
You dont need to believe it...it is what it was:thumbs::bravo:

It is probably due to the fact that they got tired/or cramped up sooner than your car.

On a serious note the reason I find your claim beyond the realm of reality is due to the fact that I have some experience(although not as much as many others) with the M30/M88/S38/S50/S54 engines and unless your M30 had serious modifications that would make it idle at 1500rpm to reach street smoothness there is no way it could outrun an M5 unless such M5 was broken and limping on some cylinders........
Equally the M30 engine had a know weakness in the crank pulley coming loose at 7k and serious mods were required to prevent it.
Now as was earlier proposed it may well have been a re-badged 520 or 525 that you ran against.

 

[Sankekur]

And you are being told that what you saw, or though you saw was not the case.....there is only one M30 that can beat a S38 in the same body and that is a turbocharged one.....apart from being exceptionally strong the M30 is a dog.

If you really believe that a simple change of fueling maps on a motor can make up for and surpass, an additional cam shaft in addition the cams are more aggressive, 12 additional valves, a fine tuned exhaust system, and resonance intake, higher compression ratio, higher displacement and about a 1000 rpm more, then you are delusional......

 

[speeddemon]

Guys..I didn't come to argue with anyone here and i have big respect to the M5...whatever it was..broken M5 or running on 4cylinders or 520 with a M5 badge and i'm def not delusional:thumbs: I ran with 2 of them on seperate occasions and both times i came out on top:thumbs:
All I knew about my car was that it had a black widow chip in and i wasn't told if there was any other mods done to it.
Like I said...I was surprised myself when this happened back then.
Now I know you guys got alot of knowledge with the brand etc etc...but most of it you guys read and compare out of magzines..no pun intented
On the street and this has been proven many times...anything can happen and yes this did happen and yes it was a M5 cause the Maroon one belonged to my friend's brother in law.
Anyway..I'm not gonna try to convince u guys:thumbs: Like I said..It is what it was...on both those runs my car came out tops and it def wasn't standard like I said...
Anyway...as u were:biglol:

 

[Peter@AEW]

Guys..I didn't come to argue with anyone here and i have big respect to the M5...whatever it was..broken M5 or running on 4cylinders or 520 with a M5 badge and i'm def not delusional:thumbs: I ran with 2 of them on seperate occasions and both times i came out on top:thumbs:
All I knew about my car was that it had a black widow chip in and i wasn't told if there was any other mods done to it.
Like I said...I was surprised myself when this happened back then.
Now I know you guys got alot of knowledge with the brand etc etc...but most of it you guys read and compare out of magzines..no pun intented
On the street and this has been proven many times...anything can happen and yes this did happen and yes it was a M5 cause the Maroon one belonged to my friend's brother in law.
Anyway..I'm not gonna try to convince u guys:thumbs: Like I said..It is what it was...on both those runs my car came out tops and it def wasn't standard like I said...
Anyway...as u were:biglol:

I for one do not perceive your posts as argumentative I do though perceive them to be ill advised.

As to the magazine "snipe" my signature pic as well as a forum search would alert any observer to the fact that the knowledge I have has not been merely gathered from magazines but from real life experience......unless of course your powers of observation are akin to the alleged performance of your past m30 powered black widow chipped 535.


.......and btw both fordkoppie and sankekur own 540/6s and M5s one of which was sold recently and both do their own work on the cars.......hardly magazine knowledge I would propose.

 

[Andy1GP]

Wasnt the black widow chip aka N2O+turbo

 

[Sankekur]

Guys..I didn't come to argue with anyone here and i have big respect to the M5...whatever it was..broken M5 or running on 4cylinders or 520 with a M5 badge and i'm def not delusional:thumbs: I ran with 2 of them on seperate occasions and both times i came out on top:thumbs:
All I knew about my car was that it had a black widow chip in and i wasn't told if there was any other mods done to it.
Like I said...I was surprised myself when this happened back then.
Now I know you guys got alot of knowledge with the brand etc etc...but most of it you guys read and compare out of magzines..no pun intented
On the street and this has been proven many times...anything can happen and yes this did happen and yes it was a M5 cause the Maroon one belonged to my friend's brother in law.
Anyway..I'm not gonna try to convince u guys:thumbs: Like I said..It is what it was...on both those runs my car came out tops and it def wasn't standard like I said...
Anyway...as u were:biglol:

So you came here and posted something so blatantly false and didn't expect an argument?
You look more like the person that compares car in magazines, as you supposedly had a 535i with the ability to run circles around an M5 but you never even tried to investigate this further, you simply believed that a chip is good enough to make up for a 80kW difference. (Not to mention it magically made up for the gearing difference as well)

If this isn't delusional, it is either very stupid or you need to go shank you dealer as he is selling you really bad crack.

 

[speeddemon]

***edited by moderator***

Sjoe....If I offended you San then sorry mate but that is what it was...no need to get so aggro with me...if it makes you happy calling me a liar by saying i posted something blatantly false then so be it....
And now i'm a crack head as well:thumbs:
You know what....you can go kruip in your **** for saying **** like that to me:thumbs:
I've never ever once called anyone names or insulted anyone on this forum but ***** like you....you like a ****** child that cant get his way and resolve to **** like this so i'm stepping down to ur level now...
do yourself a favour and go on the streets and see how some powerful bm's get ripped apart by na...yes na 2L cars

Living in a dreamworld where M5's cant be beaten :flyfun:

 

[Rodney///Marsh]

***edited by moderator***

Clearly the "Black Widow" chip was the MKIII version as everyone knows that the MKII and MKI versions did not increase the power of the M30 by 300Kw.
:flyfun:
:bravo:
:yuck:

This is probably directed at me...anyway...like i said..I had and still have no clue about what the black widow chip was back then..MKI to MKIII with increase of 3kw up to 300kw...doesn't matter buddy..fact is my 535 ran comfy infront of M5's on a 6k run..
You dont need to believe it...it is what it was:thumbs::bravo:

It is probably due to the fact that they got tired/or cramped up sooner than your car.

On a serious note the reason I find your claim beyond the realm of reality is due to the fact that I have some experience(although not as much as many others) with the M30/M88/S38/S50/S54 engines and unless your M30 had serious modifications that would make it idle at 1500rpm to reach street smoothness there is no way it could outrun an M5 unless such M5 was broken and limping on some cylinders........
Equally the M30 engine had a know weakness in the crank pulley coming loose at 7k and serious mods were required to prevent it.
Now as was earlier proposed it may well have been a re-badged 520 or 525 that you ran against.

hey Alex.. don't beat on the 525i multivalve.. my dads one was really fast. 141 killer watts.. :biglol:

Speeddemon - not to say that your experience is not true and trust me, I have seen many eye boggling races that made no sense. Big up to your cab if it was worked bro but why over 6 kms.. were you racing from Cape Town to Colesburg to see who would get there first.. that's a looooooooong run.

anyway, the M5 is insane.. a very good friend of mine had one, launch that bugger wrong and your hands are flapping around in the cockpit grabbing at the steering wheel. so much so, that to other on coming drivers, you look like you frantically trying to swot a bee in the cockpit..

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***edited by moderator***

Sjoe....If I offended you San then sorry mate but that is what it was...no need to get so aggro with me...if it makes you happy calling me a liar by saying i posted something blatantly false then so be it....
And now i'm a crack head as well:thumbs:
You know what....you can go kruip in your **** for saying **** like that to me:thumbs:
I've never ever once called anyone names or insulted anyone on this forum but ***** like you....you like a ****** child that cant get his way and resolve to **** like this so i'm stepping down to ur level now...
do yourself a favour and go on the streets and see how some powerful bm's get ripped apart by na...yes na 2L cars

Living in a dreamworld where M5's cant be beaten :flyfun:

wooooooooooooah.. strong words there bro..

don't stress dude.. I have seen some of those races. case in point, my buddy has this Honda thing, some EP3, or something of the sort, and its like a bat out of hell. I saw that thing run neck on neck with a stock Lumina.. that scared the dinges out of me. it ran a worked G5 GTi hard in his mothers guava.

sooooooo, a lot of the guys aren't saying that your story aint true, sometimes if you not there, its kind of hard to believe cause believe me, I wouldn't have believed the races I was mentioning if I wasn't there.

just my 50 cents cause they don't make 2cent coins anymore. :thumbs: