review DeMuro's review of G80 M3 base Manual RWD

[MR_Y]

This is the base, manual spec M3 in RWD. In SA, we will get the more powerful M3 Competition, which does not come in Manual and only comes in AWD.

(Correction: SA will get RWD Competition models in Auto. Then AWD thereafter)

It is a shame that we will not get this base model, which is a truer, proper BMW than the AWD Competition Auto model.

 

[TurboLlew]

The reality is that too few would have bought the base model in manual... and that isn't just an opinion: The M4 was available in that configuration and nobody bought it. There was even a 'pure edition' that was available in manual and people still bought DCT. The DCT box is so much of a better match for this car that it is no surprise.

That said, I thought we were only getting the rear wheel drive models in SA initially (that is what the media coverage has been saying) and the more expensive AWD models would follow.

 

[TurboLlew]

We can confirm that indicative base pricing for the new BMW M3 Competition and M4 Competition will be R1,860,000 and R1,940,000 respectively. Just a reminder that BMW South Africa will only be bringing in the Competition variants (so no Manual versions to be offered) with the first units all being rear-wheel-drive.

New BMW M3 and M4 Competition Pricing for South Africa (zero2turbo.com)

 

[shauwn]

i watched a video where they tested the manual version , close ratio gearbox and very raw..they compared it to the e46 m3 6 forward which sounds awesome

 

[TurboLlew]

i watched a video where they tested the manual version , close ratio gearbox and very raw..they compared it to the e46 m3 6 forward which sounds awesome

Drive it for yourself before believing videos. Many of them will say great things about manual cars because they know it will generate views. Raw can be relative. I think about all the reviews I've watched (and still watch) before buying a car and what they praise/dislike. It has very seldom played out in reality when I have actually gotten to drive the cars. This has been true regardless of brand or price point. Modern cars can dream of having the feeling of an S2000 or R33/R34 Skyline manual box.

 

[shauwn]

Im not saying i believe what they say just talking bout the reviews thats all, true you have to feel it to believe it though

 

[PsyCLown]

I have not owned any fast cars, so perhaps my opinion does not hold as much compared to those who have, but I personally do not want a manual car.

I imagine this would not change if I had a faster car like the G80, if anything I think I would much rather have an auto. Also spending all that money to have a manual car, does not really appeal to me. Is the ZF8 box really that limiting compared to a 6 speed manual or what is it that I am missing where people want manuals on these newer M cars?

AWD vs RWD I can understand, however once again I believe the AWD M cars allow you to bias them to be more like a RWD car and you can still have fun in it that way and when you want the extra grip put it back into AWD mode?

To me, the auto box with paddles and AWD mode which can be biased more towards RWD just offers additional flexibility and can potentially appeal to more. Depending on your mood and conditions, you can switch it up accordingly.
On the track, use the flap paddles, want to throw the rear out put it into "RWD mode", want a quick pull away from a robot, ensure it is in AWD mode.

Perhaps this makes the car good at a lot, but not great at anything? I do not know, but on paper and in my mind it makes sense and I see the appeal.

 

[TurboLlew]

My 2c: The people that bash autos are talking about 90s and 2000s cars or have never driven one of the modern transmissions. There was a big step change in autoboxes with the ZF transmissions in the F series cars. They are not 'slushboxes'. Automated manuals were junk in the 2000s (SMG, F1, eGear etc). There was a legitimate reason to prefer a manual box from a complexity perspective, longevity and simply the experience of driving. Yes these were fast, but clunky and jerky and poor in traffic. I drove a 599 earlier this year and it felt so archaic because of the gearbox. Put in a DCT and it would have been perfect IMHO.

At the same time the internet seems to love manuals as this 'real man' type of thing. The manuals that seem to be highly rated in these reviews are nothing to write home about IMHO. They are excessively damped, have crap like clutch delay valves, rubbery shift actions and Auto Rev Match (this baffles me: I am not a 'real man' for liking DCTs but then the person saying this has the the car auto rev match for you? LOL GTFO) The people who actually end up buying the cars tend to agree, vote with their wallets and go DCT or auto.

I don't like the 8AT/AWD since I felt the sweet spot was a DCT box... it still feels quite mechanical but provides you with a great experience, reliability, ability to actually DD the car without destroying the trans or clutch... The AT is great for a car like an x40i but IMHO too refined for a car meant to be at the peak of feel and performance which is what an M used to be. It is unsurprising this has happened since many owners complained that the DCT box was not smooth enough for their liking apparently. However it is totally personal preference at this point and you will have very fast and very smooth shifts with AWD putting down the power better than ever before. I think in future you will have to look at supercars for DCT boxes

I often have people (my former S2000 owning friends) say it is a pity that the 4C has a DCT box. There is no better box for this car. It would not be any better with a 6MT.

 

[MR_Y]

He released this video review of the full fat M4 Competition RWD Auto:

I like his in-depth look into cars (into the quirks and features).
For comprehensive driving reviews, I look elsewhere.

 

[Inactive]

BMW have lost the plot. As much as I like 4 series I will not even consider a new BMW. They have lost their "BMWness". They look almost like Audis from the rear, the new 2 series looks like a honda and the 3 series and 4 series grill is just stupid and ugly. The profile of the 4 series is also very similar to the mustang which is not a bad thing, just not a BMW.

The designers have got lazy. That M4 looks like a nice car for what it is but it has lost its agressiveness of all previous M cars. It will just fit in with the crowds now.

Look at the picture of the white M3's rear below. Looks just like an Audi to me. Take away the badges and see if your wife/girlfriend or non car enthusiast can tell you what it is.

 

[Inactive]

Now look tathis redesign of the M4. How much better does this look although the squared off grill and bonnet combination looks like an old Pontiac?

 

[Inactive]

As for the auto versus manual. I would far rather have DCT (its a fancy auto in my opinion) or even some auto boxes in my race car and any other of my cars than a manual. People who claim manual is better or faster or what? are probabl;y slow already unless they are comparing to an old style auto. It does feel faster as you get to drop the clutch and feel that shock etc but I would argue that it is not around a track or even on a drag strip.

I wish I could do a test with an average driver like most of us, with two identical modern cars like for example a 435i manual (if there is such a thing) and a 435i auto around the track. I know which I would bet on.

How many modern factory race cars are still manual?

 

[Thami4u]

This is the base, manual spec M3 in RWD. In SA, we will get the more powerful M3 Competition, which does not come in Manual and only comes in AWD.

(Correction: SA will get RWD Competition models in Auto. Then AWD thereafter)

It is a shame that we will not get this base model, which is a truer, proper BMW than the AWD Competition Auto model.

People that obsess about manual ///M cars these days are either people that will not buy the car in any case or they want to be contrarian. It really doesn't make 1 sound more of a petrolhead by simply bashing a DCT or Auto box.

 

[PsyCLown]

BMW have lost the plot. As much as I like 4 series I will not even consider a new BMW. They have lost their "BMWness". They look almost like Audis from the rear, the new 2 series looks like a honda and the 3 series and 4 series grill is just stupid and ugly. The profile of the 4 series is also very similar to the mustang which is not a bad thing, just not a BMW.

The designers have got lazy. That M4 looks like a nice car for what it is but it has lost its agressiveness of all previous M cars. It will just fit in with the crowds now.

Look at the picture of the white M3's rear below. Looks just like an Audi to me. Take away the badges and see if your wife/girlfriend or non car enthusiast can tell you what it is.
View attachment 4457

I dunno Bruce, I quite like the front of the new M3 and M4. It is different and it is bold, I do not feel it is bad though.
Have not driven one, but the reviews I have seen - they seem like really nice cars and would be great to drive. Price wise though, well, that is a whole other topic on its own.

As for the rear, well below is a 2018 A4:

Here is a 2018 A5:

Here is a Lexus ES:

It has the BMW lights, but one typically needs to know a brand / car quite well in order to pick up on these.
The body panels look very BMW like to me and I feel BMW have kept their shape quite similar.


E90:

F30:

G20:

 

[Inactive]

I suppose it is all subjective but doing a quick search on line the grills on the new 3 and 4 series have picked up the most flack and while at BMW the other day the sales man was actually complaining that everyone of his customers are complaining about the grills and not wanting the new cars because of them. I think they are flippen ugly.

See what I mean by the rears now. All pretty much the same design.

 

[v1p3r]

Now look tathis redesign of the M4. How much better does this look although the squared off grill and bonnet combination looks like an old Pontiac?

View attachment 4458

I might be in the minority, but I actually think this nose looks worse than the G82 design.

As for the rears all looking the same, I think a lot of cars have similarly flatter lighting elements and design since LED's have made the need for large pieces of coloured and reflective glass unnecessary and the design techniques required to accommodate those changes are also similar.

The thing that is common across the reviews I've watched is that the shifts of the transmission are less violent (smoother and do not slam into each gear) and the car is less snappy when transitioning from grip to losing grip. This seems to be tailored to feedback from the majority of drivers of these type of car who mostly use the car on the road and not necessarily on the track.

While the execution of the big kidneys is not the best, at least it won't be mistaken for anything else and at least it doesn't look like the front melted like the new Lexus' do. I think it does look better on darker colours where the edge of the kidney is less in your face. Then it actually looks quite aggressive

 

[Inactive]

It does look slightly better with the darker colours helping to disguise the grills a bit.

That lexus is flippen terrible.

Good point about LEd possibly causing the similarities. I dont know the technology so would guess thats a rational point.

 

[Rotinaj]

People that obsess about manual ///M cars these days are either people that will not buy the car in any case or they want to be contrarian. It really doesn't make 1 sound more of a petrolhead by simply bashing a DCT or Auto box.

Nhooo. I'm the kind of purist that thinks the best kind of car has no roof because de hell with track times, i want fun times.

I am a big fan of autos, love them, even love SMG for what it is, it is brutal AF, but only a few OEMs have made self shifters that last and that is why people go gaga for a used Manual 911/Ferrari/Lambo/M car because 20 years down the line when your Maserati Gransport or AM Vanquish gearbox lets go that is it. Car is now scrap there is no more used parts, there is no more new parts the end. It's now a ornament till you LS swap or go Electric, that is why people currently go gaga for a Manual over the older unreliable stuff.

I also laugh at the notion of resident racecar drivers here, as i have said before if you are that competent to exploit the additional grip from a Coupe vs a Cabrio you should not be on a public road and frankly you should be a paid race driver, same goes for Manual vs Auto. Show me how often you go out on a track then mr i got a Auto because it is faster? If you actually track your car i will wholeheartedly agree auto/DCT/MCT/DSG ftw but then shall i be seeing you at Zwartkops next week? or just cruising up and down the strip in Umhlanga popping and banging away?

People buy these in auto because it makes it a great and wonderful daily driver and it suites the turbo powerplant. But when they become just another old BMW that someone dreams about they are not buying it as a daily they are buying it as a toy a indulgence ,and fuck me sideways there is where the manual just makes sense. It forces driver involvement, it forces concentration, it forces you to put down the bloody smartphone you are texting on and drive, drive it for the sheer joy of driving or as a brand once said "sheer driving pleasure" but they stopped using that slogan for a reason.

Some of you might have watched the Jason Cammisa review on the modern Stratos with the F430 motor and how he just goes on and on about interacting with the engine, that is for me at least why a Auto of any sorts in a weekend car makes no sense. My current toy with a metric fuck ton of power and torque is auto and it kind of sux for that.

 

[Rotinaj]

I might be in the minority, but I actually think this nose looks worse than the G82 design.

As for the rears all looking the same, I think a lot of cars have similarly flatter lighting elements and design since LED's have made the need for large pieces of coloured and reflective glass unnecessary and the design techniques required to accommodate those changes are also similar.

The thing that is common across the reviews I've watched is that the shifts of the transmission are less violent (smoother and do not slam into each gear) and the car is less snappy when transitioning from grip to losing grip. This seems to be tailored to feedback from the majority of drivers of these type of car who mostly use the car on the road and not necessarily on the track.

While the execution of the big kidneys is not the best, at least it won't be mistaken for anything else and at least it doesn't look like the front melted like the new Lexus' do. I think it does look better on darker colours where the edge of the kidney is less in your face. Then it actually looks quite aggressive
View attachment 4461View attachment 4462View attachment 4463

Ehm, i think this looks waaaay better than Mr Nostrils.

 

[Inactive]

I also laugh at the notion of resident racecar drivers here, as i have said before if you are that competent to exploit the additional grip from a Coupe vs a Cabrio you should not be on a public road and frankly you should be a paid race driver, same goes for Manual vs Auto. Show me how often you go out on a track then mr i got a Auto because it is faster? If you actually track your car i will wholeheartedly agree auto/DCT/MCT/DSG ftw but then shall i be seeing you at Zwartkops next week? or just cruising up and down the strip in Umhlanga popping and banging away?

Im out on track fairly often but not in a road car. Driving an auto around a track waiting for it to decide what gear it should be in is no fun and to be honest a total waste of time. Driving a car with DCT around a track is so much better than manual.

As for driving around a track in a coupe vs cabrio and telling the difference is pretty easy. One is windyer than the other. Seriously though cabrio's are sometimes stiffer than coupe's believe it or not but with road tyres you wont tell the difference and all you will notice is wind.

If you like track days, DCT would be far better than auto and manual. If you never do track days then auto 100%. If you claim you want to connect for the sheer driving pleasure and become one with your vehicle on a level no one else understands then go manual but thats subjective and differs from driver to driver. But having said all that it also depends on what vehicle you are driving, for example a M4 then DCT all the way, an E30 M3 then manual as the auto box's were kak in those days.

As for life of the gear box, im not sure manual lasts longer than auto or DCT? I think they are pretty even now with manual possibly being slighty less reliable than auto's due to poor drivers or driving errors.

Its the same as owning a 4x4. How often do people living in the city actually need or use the 4x4 capabilities? Once a month if you lucky, but that once a month or once a year trip is all you need to make it worth while.