review DeMuro's review of G80 M3 base Manual RWD

[Rotinaj]

Im out on track fairly often but not in a road car. Driving an auto around a track waiting for it to decide what gear it should be in is no fun and to be honest a total waste of time. Driving a car with DCT around a track is so much better than manual.

As for driving around a track in a coupe vs cabrio and telling the difference is pretty easy. One is windyer than the other. Seriously though cabrio's are sometimes stiffer than coupe's believe it or not but with road tyres you wont tell the difference and all you will notice is wind.

If you like track days, DCT would be far better than auto and manual. If you never do track days then auto 100%. If you claim you want to connect for the sheer driving pleasure and become one with your vehicle on a level no one else understands then go manual but thats subjective and differs from driver to driver. But having said all that it also depends on what vehicle you are driving, for example a M4 then DCT all the way, an E30 M3 then manual as the auto box's were kak in those days.

As for life of the gear box, im not sure manual lasts longer than auto or DCT? I think they are pretty even now with manual possibly being slighty less reliable than auto's due to poor drivers or driving errors.

Its the same as owning a 4x4. How often do people living in the city actually need or use the 4x4 capabilities? Once a month if you lucky, but that once a month or once a year trip is all you need to make it worth while.

Some auto's are programmed wonderfully and the manual override means true manual intervention, those are fine on a track, then you have rubbish that even in manual mode will still up or down change those suck.

 

[KPM3_30]

People buy these in auto because it makes it a great and wonderful daily driver and it suites the turbo powerplant. But when they become just another old BMW that someone dreams about they are not buying it as a daily they are buying it as a toy a indulgence ,and f_ck me sideways there is where the manual just makes sense. It forces driver involvement, it forces concentration, it forces you to put down the bloody smartphone you are texting on and drive, drive it for the sheer joy of driving or as a brand once said "sheer driving pleasure" but they stopped using that slogan for a reason.

I don't think I have ever agreed with you on the forum, but I share this sentiment 110%.

My manual M3 is slower than the DCT, hell I'm sure its slower than a normal ZF auto. Do I care though..? Not a chance in the world, I wouldn't have it any other way. Rev matching a V8 M3 on your own is a special feeling, so is the feeling of swopping cogs on your own accord. Its not about the 0-100 times or how much faster an automatic is or, or, or ... Its the driver engagement that a manual car adds to the entire 'special' experience, at least for myself. I would be one of the few people that would want a manual M car, regardless of the DCT being a better fit for the car.

As they say, to each their own.

 

[Inactive]

Some auto's are programmed wonderfully and the manual override means true manual intervention, those are fine on a track, then you have rubbish that even in manual mode will still up or down change those suck.

Do you mean like most BM's have? Yes its fine but they are not great on track. Manual or DCT is better

 

[TurboLlew]

Love the conversation.

I have held the views of most at some point over time but changed somewhat over time. @Rotinaj its preference for daily use for sure... I love a good manual box as well. Don't think that a DCT box is no fun though. I had exclusively manual cars for years til I got my M5. I also don't think BMW makes the best manual gearboxes... not by a long shot.

DCT box on a track is magic if in manual mode (and I don't know of any DCTs that will force upshifts). It is a different skill to learn and not as easy as it looks to get it right - you find yourself counting gears and shifts - easy to double shift up or down - need to know where your paddles and hands are, that you are in the right gear for the corner etc. DCT box in general is engaging and is a lot of fun. IMHO it adds rather than removes from engagement and yes it does make you feel like a 'real' modern race car driver LOL (we all buy into this fantasy to some degree I'm sure )

That said, it is not just for 'race drivers' or laptimes... Whether it is Long trips, short trips, school runs, client visits or being reported on community groups for imagined (or otherwise) antics my M5s DCT is absolutely the best transmission for it IMHO. It goes with the jekyl and hyde character of the car.

The E92 @KPM3_30 is probably the last car where the manual was probably a better match (or equal match) to the DCT. TBH If I was going to add an E92 (and definitely E46) m3 to my garage it would be manual.

As for design, I've given my view before. We are in an era of very uninspiring design in general if not outright ugly cars - all designed and specced by focus groups and bean counters. I would love to see everyone who finds these cars attractive and excellent value putting their money where their mouths or keyboards are and actually buying one. I am sure the forum will soon be full of new owners and those who have traded their M4s and M5s to get them...

 

[Inactive]

Just a side note. I think BMW make very good gearboxes. My race car is around 550kws and 780nm of torque and I run a standard 6 speed 335 manual box and have done so for about 3 years. No issues at all. (Touch wood I’m not tempting fate now)

 

[Rotinaj]

Just a side note. I think BMW make very good gearboxes. My race car is around 550kws and 780nm of torque and I run a standard 6 speed 335 manual box and have done so for about 3 years. No issues at all. (Touch wood I’m not tempting fate now)

BMW doesn't make Jack. ZF and Getrag does.

Mercedes, Ford, GM , Toyota and Nissan, are about the only automakers that still make their own boxes for most of their model range.

 

[Rotinaj]

Love the conversation.

I have held the views of most at some point over time but changed somewhat over time. @Rotinaj its preference for daily use for sure... I love a good manual box as well. Don't think that a DCT box is no fun though. I had exclusively manual cars for years til I got my M5. I also don't think BMW makes the best manual gearboxes... not by a long shot.

DCT box on a track is magic if in manual mode (and I don't know of any DCTs that will force upshifts). It is a different skill to learn and not as easy as it looks to get it right - you find yourself counting gears and shifts - easy to double shift up or down - need to know where your paddles and hands are, that you are in the right gear for the corner etc. DCT box in general is engaging and is a lot of fun. IMHO it adds rather than removes from engagement and yes it does make you feel like a 'real' modern race car driver LOL (we all buy into this fantasy to some degree I'm sure )

That said, it is not just for 'race drivers' or laptimes... Whether it is Long trips, short trips, school runs, client visits or being reported on community groups for imagined (or otherwise) antics my M5s DCT is absolutely the best transmission for it IMHO. It goes with the jekyl and hyde character of the car.

The E92 @KPM3_30 is probably the last car where the manual was probably a better match (or equal match) to the DCT. TBH If I was going to add an E92 (and definitely E46) m3 to my garage it would be manual.

As for design, I've given my view before. We are in an era of very uninspiring design in general if not outright ugly cars - all designed and specced by focus groups and bean counters. I would love to see everyone who finds these cars attractive and excellent value putting their money where their mouths or keyboards are and actually buying one. I am sure the forum will soon be full of new owners and those who have traded their M4s and M5s to get them...

I have driven auto's since i was 13, they are fun in their own special way, but as i said my preference is "interacting" with the engine, not with software. And i fully agree with your the F10 would be worse as a manual, but it's a car no matter the transmission i am not interested in.

In the end i am sure we will see quite a few of the G stuff around since well most people who buy them new are interested in the badge and the status it brings. I mostly don't mind the looks in darker colours it seems semi decent, but again it can look like a 300 Gullwing, i am just not interested in a automatic only AWD car with fake noises pumped into the cabin where everything is a optional extra, i will always judge it against the golden standard for a m3 (E46) and it the F80 faltered badly and i doubt this will be any better.

 

[Inactive]

BMW doesn't make Jack. ZF and Getrag does.

Mercedes, Ford, GM , Toyota and Nissan, are about the only automakers that still make their own boxes for most of their model range.

Oh yes of course you are 100% correct. I should have said the gearbox bmw use.

 

[shauwn]

Just like Merc cant make a proper M car (no offense)

 

[Rotinaj]

Just like Merc cant make a proper M car (no offense)

Neither can bmw nowadays.

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[v1p3r]

Neither can bmw nowadays.

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Depends on what you define as "proper" I guess

 

[shauwn]

m4 nuff said

 

[Benji]

Opinion: it’s the BMW M3’s job to be controversial. Duh

Sure it’s a heartland fast car, but it’s been trolling the lot of you for 30 years

www.topgear.com

Found this quite funny and very true

 

[TurboLlew]

Opinion: it’s the BMW M3’s job to be controversial. Duh

Sure it’s a heartland fast car, but it’s been trolling the lot of you for 30 years

www.topgear.com

Found this quite funny and very true

To be honest, outside of the M5 I don't remember there being such huge controversy around the M3 in years past... even with some of the more interesting ownership issues... the community got behind them. There is always going to be a vocal minority around ANY changes. I think in the case of this generation it is just more pronounced.

Size wise I think many are also imagining these grilles on an F80/F82 sized car. The new M is quite different in proportions. Now that it is out in the wild I am sure people will start to see it.

Definitely not a car for me but seems I am the minority this generation as all of them are sold. I called ABM and JSN to have a look in the flesh (as everyone suggests you should) and they were all sold on day 1.

 

[Inactive]

To be honest, outside of the M5 I don't remember there being such huge controversy around the M3 in years past... even with some of the more interesting ownership issues... the community got behind them. There is always going to be a vocal minority around ANY changes. I think in the case of this generation it is just more pronounced.

Size wise I think many are also imagining these grilles on an F80/F82 sized car. The new M is quite different in proportions. Now that it is out in the wild I am sure people will start to see it.

Definitely not a car for me but seems I am the minority this generation as all of them are sold. I called ABM and JSN to have a look in the flesh (as everyone suggests you should) and they were all sold on day 1.

As for all being sold I call BS and I think they are saying that to create some sort of "demand" illusion. I have seen more new M5's than new M4's and it should be the other way around..

I honestly can not believe its well liked and I have ready many reports and watched many youtube reviews that all mention the grill negatively. I have also looked at it in the flesh several times. It looks like sits higher, looks longer, looks narrower, rear looks like it has a disposable nappy on it disguised as a a cheap plastic diffuser, the interior is design is boring and SUV like, the seat colour options a flippen horrible, particularly the orange, yellow and blue. I do know it takes some getting used to when new cars are launched but like you said, with this one its different. To me the new M4 is cheap tupperware that is trying too hard to be cool and it has lost its individuality and ability to stand out in a crowd.


Ive been to two BMW dealerships over the last two weeks more than once and the same M4's are sitting in almost the same spot. Midrand has moved their white one though. It looks so much better than the first time I saw it as this time I couldnt see the back and front as it was behind pillars or something. Even the BMW staff I have spoken to complained that no one likes the new one and everyone is complaining about the grills.

I did this very rough edit on the race car. Look how much better it would have looked.

This is also the first time in my life that BMW have released a new model and I have hated it so much. (im talking BMWs im interested in - 3 series and 4 series)

Ps. hate is a strong word so excuse me using it but i used it to illustrate what I think of it.


. (sorry dont have a decent editing program) but look at the difference the grill would make. It would go from bugs bunny to something growling get out of my way 🤣

 

[Inactive]

Finally parked side by side. (Pic stollen from Instagram) yes the old one is dropped I know but just look how great the “old” one looks

 

[ajm]

The front of the G80/82 does not appeal to me. The level of repugnance has diminished over time (as invariably happens when one acclimatises), but I still prefer the front end of the outgoing model. There will always be takers for the manual box but I like the DCT box in the F10 M5 and would take it over a manual or 8 speed auto without agonising too much over the choice.

For the most part, the reviews I've seen of the new M3/M4 are extremely positive. The rear-wheel drive comp pack variant with the auto box runs a 3.7 second 0-100, an 11.7 second quarter mile and a sub-8 second 100-200. Those are very impressive numbers all-round for a stock rear wheel drive. It'll easily outrun an F10 M5 (which is no small achievement) and its vastly quicker than the outgoing M3/M4 - I don't recall ever seeing a bigger improvement in performance from one model to the next. I think that because of this and in spite of the rather unsightly front grill, this is going to be a very popular car

 

[VinceM]

Finally parked side by side. (Pic stollen from Instagram) yes the old one is dropped I know but just look how great the “old” one looks View attachment 4729

Should have built an M3 off current 3 series.


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[Inactive]

This guy is spot on:

I had at it again today. I said it looks like an accord or something similar with a bunch of cheap after market accessories stuck on it

 

[Nomad77]

Should have built an M3 off current 3 series.


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The current 3 series is such a great looking car. Really boggles the mind why they didn't base the M3 off it.

Still think the G80 is good looking though