BMW in Trouble

[Mike1]

Hi Mamba

Thank you for the awesome reply, just to clarify I have no hard feelings or negativity towards you or what you do in terms of the bad service experience posts you have made.

Its understandable that with a client base of so many customers, so many intimate dealings, so many difference personalities nevermind stress levels and much more that cock-ups are inevitable.

I firmly believe that it is how the dealer or BMW SA deals with the issue which makes the difference, MINI SA recently had such a case on their Facebook Page and an initial response was made by MINI SA and a few weeks later a further update was made announcing the resolution. This does not just impress customers, but it builds loyalty and creates a strong business relationship.

However, we are all individuals. I too am that person who holds up the entire process to read the fine print, others have trust and they sign away. Your bad service story is one that is unique to you, and whilst it is you paying for the situation it is fairly obvious that BMW SA have made no effort to build a further relationship with you. Its a poor show and I can understand why you feel that way.

My perspective here is from someone who has observed the day to day running as well as actually worked in a dealer. We agree on more than you realise, and the reason is because I have been that d**s on the other end when a customer sits upstairs complaining to my DP.

Even with the limited life experience I have I can understand the emotion and anger that goes into a complaint and the resentment it causes when a customer complains, irrespective of who is at fault.

Its why I dont see this example with the X1 in the same eyes as other people, I know what goes on in the dealer network and its how I can safely say that that X1 scenario, the owners blatant disregard for the entire dealership and its many staff members who in the upcoming months, now I talking about innocent people not related to the incident will be affected because the customer cock-ed up is simply unacceptable.

Instead of blaming the dealer you need to look at it from both perspectives, and to be honest I have dealt with clients who have 745Li BMW's that have been in the workshop for over 11 months with an electric problem... Clients who in front of my family and little brothers on a Saturday morning told me my dealership was a bunch of c*nts at the top of his lungs in my showroom only to call me later and apologise because he was so angry with the BMW Sales Rep next door and I was the person he took it out on.

Didnt help that everyone in the Showroom walked out, potential MINI sales lost because of a useless sales person next door. I got myself suspended in the process of making this man happy because of his outburst that morning, and today he loves his MINI Clubman S more than you can ever imagine.

So yes, poor service should not be tolerable but at the same time fanatics and BMW owners need to understand that you cannot just assume that the customer is right, it took 3 pages of slagging before anyone actually realised hey what if the customer buggered up the car himself?

So often the emphasis is placed on the company, the big bad nasty corporation and yet nobody turns to look at the unreasonable customer.

Does anyone have the reg of the car? I am now keen to look it up and see what the story is. :rollsmile:

 

[CyberMatix]

Some years ago I worked with a guy, his name was Philip. A very hard worker, conscientious, honest to the tee. Typical family guy, wife, two kids, and went to church every Sunday. He didn't have any degrees or qualifications, he just worked hard, and was clever to boot.

After saving for a long time, he went out and bought himself a brand spanking new E36 318ts (or is?), the one with the spoiler at the back. This car was the pride and joy of his life.

After a few months, actually when he was coming out of church one Sunday, the car wouldn't start. He had to tow it to a BMW service centre.

Got the car back, fixed, but this problem became progressively worse over time. It went back to BMW, spent some time in the factory, fixed, problem continued.

Long story short, this car spent more than 9 months away from him over a period of about 2 years. Every time the same story, the car was fixed, but it wasn't. He spent an enormous time haggling with the dealer and BMW-SA. It seems that they continuously tried to "prove" that it was actually his fault and not theirs. In the end he decided to go the legal route.

Eventually BMW-SA decided to replace the car. OK, so happy ending. Well not really, they gave him a newer "old" car but he had to pay in an enormous amount to them, because the "new" car was now obviously newer than the "old" car. The old car was stuffed after all. And probably by him.

I looked at the new financial agreement that he made, and there is only one conclusion, they screwed him. He was so happy that at least he would now have a car that would mostly start, that he just let it slide.

So they not only gave him the run-around for 2 years, mostly finding "nothing wrong", and at the same time blaming him for the problems (if any), and at the end they still got some extra money out of him.

So if you come with the excuse that BMW-SA is basically an ethical company and they really just want the "best" for their customers and the brand I can only say one word. CRAP.

 

[Mike1]

So if you come with the excuse that BMW-SA is basically an ethical company and they really just want the "best" for their customers and the brand I can only say one word. CRAP.

I dont think anyone is saying that. But sometimes its very easy to jump on the band-wagon isnt it?

 

[Peter@AEW]

BMW is certainly not the company it used to be in the 80s when they were head to head against Merc.

The Director Marketing was a gentleman by the name of Vic Doolan and some of the older crowd will recall the 7 series advert on TV where Vic stood in front of a 7 with ABS whilst the car braked on 2 different surfaces to demonstrate how good ABS was.

Anyway those days Vic would not stand for mediocre service nor would he excuse cars that repeatedly parked in service departments awaiting resolution of simple faults or difficult ones for that matter.

Speak to Alec at Evolution and he will tell you that in his days when he used to be a technical specialist with the factory there where no hard tales told by customers who had bought a lemon or whose car spent more time in the workshop than on the road.

Since the day of motor-plan the factory has changed its approach to clients and there are times where clients really do buy a lemon and are compromised.

Most times though it is the nut behind the steering wheel that requires attention.

My e38 740 is by all accounts one of the most unreliable 7 series BMWs with particular weaknesses in the cooling system yet by being carefull and attending to services myself I have not had to worry about it. Whether a BMW technician would be as concerned is a moot point.
The point I am making is that at the least one should have a basic rudimentary knowledge of the car they are driving/own and they should use it with some mechanical empathy.

Just my 2c which by all accounts is not much.

 

[CyberMatix]

So if you come with the excuse that BMW-SA is basically an ethical company and they really just want the "best" for their customers and the brand I can only say one word. CRAP.

I dont think anyone is saying that. But sometimes its very easy to jump on the band-wagon isnt it?

We have had this argument before I think.

Of course there are people that abuse their cars, and then I agree that their MP should not pay for their problems.

But to say that the main problem is (and that is what I'm getting from you it seems), that it is basically the fault of the consumer and his attitude that is the main cause of the problem. That concept I absolutely reject.

Nothing personal. I just disagree with your position on the matter.

 

[Mike1]

No, that is not what I am saying

I am suggesting that whilst BMW does cock up, cos its inevitable they will given their client base we are too quick to jump to conclusions in that we blame BMW without considering the clients role in the situation.

I am not defending BMW, but I prefer to see both sides of the story instead of just jumping onto the BMW SUCKS bandwagon.

 

[CyberMatix]

No, that is not what I am saying

I am suggesting that whilst BMW does cock up, cos its inevitable they will given their client base we are too quick to jump to conclusions in that we blame BMW without considering the clients role in the situation.

I am not defending BMW, but I prefer to see both sides of the story instead of just jumping onto the BMW SUCKS bandwagon.

I think we basically agree, but I think that I (and Mamba) probably lean over more in the direction of BMW-SA sucks, and you lean over more to the CUSTOMER sucks.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Iceman007]

Ok I recently bought a Pre owned BMW E90 325i with 41 000km on the clock and there were a few problems when I took delivery. Firstly the front tyres were smooth and USB did not work. So all I did went back dropped my car and demanded transport and also said that I want the name of the place that passed the roadworthy.

Within 15 min I had a loaner 2011 E90 323i. and they fixed everything in 2 days.

Ok so I get my 325i back. mmm and the 323i pulled better and gearshift was smoother. So I once again leave the car there and tell them i am invoking the consumer act and i will not take and accept the car unless tey get it sorted im giving it back and ill claim my deposit. And note during all this I kept coool and polite. They fixed it in 3 days. Software upgrade and replacde mecatronics and oil in the gearbox. Man what a differince. The car pulls like much better than a 323i like it should.

I must say beeing polite and thank them when they get it right earns you alot of respect.:thumbs:

 

[Mike1]

Ok I recently bought a Pre owned BMW E90 325i with 41 000km on the clock and there were a few problems when I took delivery. Firstly the front tyres were smooth and USB did not work. So all I did went back dropped my car and demanded transport and also said that I want the name of the place that passed the roadworthy.

Within 15 min I had a loaner 2011 E90 323i. and they fixed everything in 2 days.

Ok so I get my 325i back. mmm and the 323i pulled better and gearshift was smoother. So I once again leave the car there and tell them i am invoking the consumer act and i will not take and accept the car unless tey get it sorted im giving it back and ill claim my deposit. And note during all this I kept coool and polite. They fixed it in 3 days. Software upgrade and replacde mecatronics and oil in the gearbox. Man what a differince. The car pulls like much better than a 323i like it should.

I must say beeing polite and thank them when they get it right earns you alot of respect.:thumbs:

Couldnt agree more. :thumbs:

I find it interesting it even got delivered like that, in your delivery note you sign for the condition of the tyres (in fact it is mandatory that your sales-person explains that the tyres should be, if applicable rotated every 10 000km too) and that a quality check was done to the vehicle (which includes tyres and Fault Codes as well as wheel aligment) at X mileage, the quality check is only valid for 2 weeks so it would have had to be done within two weeks of you signing the OTP.

I would suggest you request to see the quality check form where they have signed those tyres off, as well as confirmation that the Motorplan is in your name... In order for the car to be sold as BMW approved used it must be quality checked, valeted and roadworthied. :thumbs:

 

[Mike1]

No, that is not what I am saying

I am suggesting that whilst BMW does cock up, cos its inevitable they will given their client base we are too quick to jump to conclusions in that we blame BMW without considering the clients role in the situation.

I am not defending BMW, but I prefer to see both sides of the story instead of just jumping onto the BMW SUCKS bandwagon.

I think we basically agree, but I think that I (and Mamba) probably lean over more in the direction of BMW-SA sucks, and you lean over more to the CUSTOMER sucks.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

:thumbs:

With your personal experiences, of course its understandable that you will lean more towards BMW Sucks, I did mention earlier that every individual on this forum has had an individual dealing or BMW Experience - Yours was not to your standard and I too would be furious if I was in your shoes.

I think the biggest problem here, and I dont know if it is a BMW SA specific problem is that perhaps in the 70's (referring to the post above) BMW was able to cater to a specialised market, a market where they could give individual clients individual attention, I think a look at the sales figures these days shows that BMW has increased its output by at least twice what it was selling in the 70's?

The problem I have with this is that BMW have lost that quintessential premium touch that attracted buyers to the brand.

My experience working in the group showed me that BMW cares not about you, or retaining you particularly once you are out of Motorplan. BMW is driven by new car sales, BMW will do ANYTHING to get a sale from you. At MINI ours cars walked out the door, at BMW the sales people had to beg clients to sign an OTP.

One of the biggest drives at our dealer was customer retention, every meeting, every course we did was about customer retention and the importance of retaining clients, yet it never explained how.

BMW SA puts very little focus on this too and now you sit with a situation where BMW is trying to offer a premium service, with low grade sales people in most dealers and under-trained management who are driven only on selling Motorplans and making their commission.

The 70's had passion, the sales people lived and breathed BMW, they were the brand. Thats where I think the difference comes. :nonono:

 

[Iceman007]

Ok I recently bought a Pre owned BMW E90 325i with 41 000km on the clock and there were a few problems when I took delivery. Firstly the front tyres were smooth and USB did not work. So all I did went back dropped my car and demanded transport and also said that I want the name of the place that passed the roadworthy.

Within 15 min I had a loaner 2011 E90 323i. and they fixed everything in 2 days.

Ok so I get my 325i back. mmm and the 323i pulled better and gearshift was smoother. So I once again leave the car there and tell them i am invoking the consumer act and i will not take and accept the car unless tey get it sorted im giving it back and ill claim my deposit. And note during all this I kept coool and polite. They fixed it in 3 days. Software upgrade and replacde mecatronics and oil in the gearbox. Man what a differince. The car pulls like much better than a 323i like it should.

I must say beeing polite and thank them when they get it right earns you alot of respect.:thumbs:

Couldnt agree more. :thumbs:

I find it interesting it even got delivered like that, in your delivery note you sign for the condition of the tyres (in fact it is mandatory that your sales-person explains that the tyres should be, if applicable rotated every 10 000km too) and that a quality check was done to the vehicle (which includes tyres and Fault Codes as well as wheel aligment) at X mileage, the quality check is only valid for 2 weeks so it would have had to be done within two weeks of you signing the OTP.

I would suggest you request to see the quality check form where they have signed those tyres off, as well as confirmation that the Motorplan is in your name... In order for the car to be sold as BMW approved used it must be quality checked, valeted and roadworthied. :thumbs:

I knew about the tyres but kept it to myself after delivery for I know they have to fit new ones and not steal old ones of another car. And Yip I went home after delivery and did my own inspection and that same afternoon 12:00 returned the car and yes they must replace or they will be in trouble + the testing station stand a chance of getting there licience revoked. I also requisted printout of any coments or accidents on the system(motorplan) before Ibought the car, and it was clean. They had the bonnet and front bumper sprayed for the stonechips. They sliped up and I noticed some overspray in the fender where they taped it off on the inside where the fenders bolt to the car(As you know they blend it in on the top of fenders when ever you spray a bonnet as precaution for coulor diffirance) They will fix it for me when I take the car in for the Smart seal insurance when they repair the stone chips

I must say these cars love stone chips for in the first week there is a small one on the bonet and one on the Bumper.:argh:

 

[Lee335]

I just received this letter from BMW Bruma regarding the guy driving around with his X1 , Guess I am on the dealer email list
Very interesting !

 

[dvst8]

I just received this letter from BMW Bruma regarding the guy driving around with his X1 , Guess I am on the dealer email list
Very interesting !

Interesting.

 

[Yuvan]

I wonder what really went down, how did he destroy his engine?

 

[WyKiD]

Without knowing the "facts" on what went on here its rather difficult to gauge the overall situation.

If the dealer was so clearly in the right, why take the legal route? Yes, they would not like the negative publicity but it should not "hurt" them if they had nothing to hide....imo.

 

[Spy007]

I get avg of 75 000km on a set of tyres and perhaps 2 set of pads a year.

So yes depends a lot on how you drive

75k on one set of tyres????????

Yip

Had gopher for 100 000km total was 1 set

 

[gmmcdonald]

Hmmmm. Their public offer for clients to contact them does imply that they are in the clear and happy to discuss this one.