2008 320i Auto - @#$% CAR!!

[BMW M]

Olorin: "at higher speed my measly..." What have you been drinking dude :drink:. Given 2 indentical bodies, each with gearing optimized for top speed, the one with the higher power will have the better top speed. The one with the better top speed will have the better acceleration at higher speed. Torque curve has NO influince on high speed if number of gears go closer to infinity. The contrary is that the less gears you have, and power output is equal, then the car with an engine with higher AVERAGE power will be faster. In that case, a diesel engine, even when running at its power peak will still be equal or better than a NA engine of equal specific power output. I have made a nice graph for you to help explain. BLUE IS 320d, RED is 320i.
We will start at the basic torque curves:

Here you will se the fame of the "high" torque peak at low RPM for the diesel. And the mistake you make is by looking at the 320i torque curve between 5000 and 6500rpm and noting it is higher than the torque of the diesel at 5000 - 6500rpm, because the engine does not rev that high. You constantly forget gearing.
Then next graph the torque of the engine is sent through the gearboxes, each with their specific ratios (I have taken 6th gear as a comparison):

Now note that the diesel torque curve dropped, but got stretched. But because the torque is SOOOO much, the torque does not drop below that of the 320i even if needing to be stretched out through the gearing. So there is no high speed the 320i will ever be faster at.
Just to put everything in perspective, I will include the graph of the acceleration in m/s^2 for all the gear ratios. Note that there is no place where the 320i has more torque, hence acceleration, at ANY SPEED, than the 320d:

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While I am at it:
1.6i citigolf vs 320i

EDIT: BLUE CITI, RED 320i

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Well done Killua! :clap: There is no way in hell that a 320i will beat a 320d in ANY circumstances...be it from robot to robot or top end. Ive taken on 325i's with the Dynamic from robot to robot and 250nm does not beat 380nm... no matter how you cut it.. Top end is a different story thou.

I started this thread to display my dissapointment in the 320i's performance, not to open a can of worms and insult 320i drivers. I agree that the 320i's are nicely speced with extras... but thats it. If you like power, and to take on the occasional Citi golf at the robot... :nono:its not the car to do it in...your ego will not recover... :mmm:

I've driven and owned ALOT of BMW's in the last 14 years (aee my signature), and I have always been impressed with their performance, even the e30 and e36 316i's... but the e90 320i... :nono:

 

[moranor@axis]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

 

[Yulz9081]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

 

[BMW M]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

Lets get Killua to do us some graphs there...lol :thumbsup:

 

[moranor@axis]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

lol

to be fair i have only gone up against 3 but every time same thing huge smoke but not much else

 

[Olorin]

Sorry if I insulted killua earlier with my comments. I simply didn't want to believe that a City Golf 1.6 could beat a 320i off the line.

Call it being stubborn or what have you, but it just didn't register with me. I also never knew that the car weighed in at under 990kg's. But then I also see that it beats many other cars in a similar class to mine.....off the line.

I don't, however, think that a 1.6 can stay with my car for long on the roads. Off the line sprints is one thing but if I'm in 3rd gear I'm pretty sure I'm going to be pulling away. At some point the extra grunt will have to make a difference.

About the 320i/320d argument I started, I've heard some people say that a 320d does not have very good top end performance and due to the dips in the torque curve that a 320i would make up a lot of ground for it. That's all I'll say on the matter.

FYI, I can be very stubborn on the forums and sometimes I come across very aggressive especially if I'm not understanding things but I'm not like that in person. So sorry if that was the way I came across.

 

[killua]

Sorry if I insulted killua earlier with my comments. I simply didn't want to believe that a City Golf 1.6 could beat a 320i off the line.

Call it being stubborn or what have you, but it just didn't register with me. I also never knew that the car weighed in at under 990kg's. But then I also see that it beats many other cars in a similar class to mine.....off the line.

I don't, however, think that a 1.6 can stay with my car for long on the roads. Off the line sprints is one thing but if I'm in 3rd gear I'm pretty sure I'm going to be pulling away. At some point the extra grunt will have to make a difference.

About the 320i/320d argument I started, I've heard some people say that a 320d does not have very good top end performance and due to the dips in the torque curve that a 320i would make up a lot of ground for it. That's all I'll say on the matter.

FYI, I can be very stubborn on the forums and sometimes my comments come across nasty and I'm not like that in person. So sorry if that was the way I came across.

:clap: No problem man. You are right about the beemer being faster than the citi at higher speed. That is where the weight advantage begins to fall away. It should be about at 120km/h, which is actually a shame, because we cannot drive that fast... But I would still choose the 320i above the citi, any day of the week. I have owned 2 citis, and they are light for a reason. The body strength is non existant. If I jack up one wheel then I cannot open the doors because the body flex is too much

@moranor, maybe you can source me the torque curve for the 323i. They are the hardest part to come by.

EDIT: BTW, The other people are still wrong about the dips in torque curve bla bla bla. The 320i will NEVER make up any ground, at any speed, against the 320d.

 

[msm]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

lol

to be fair i have only gone up against 3 but every time same thing huge smoke but not much else

If all you see is smoke, then it means you've fallen behind

 

[BMW M]

Sorry if I insulted killua earlier with my comments. I simply didn't want to believe that a City Golf 1.6 could beat a 320i off the line.

Call it being stubborn or what have you, but it just didn't register with me. I also never knew that the car weighed in at under 990kg's. But then I also see that it beats many other cars in a similar class to mine.....off the line.

I don't, however, think that a 1.6 can stay with my car for long on the roads. Off the line sprints is one thing but if I'm in 3rd gear I'm pretty sure I'm going to be pulling away. At some point the extra grunt will have to make a difference.

About the 320i/320d argument I started, I've heard some people say that a 320d does not have very good top end performance and due to the dips in the torque curve that a 320i would make up a lot of ground for it. That's all I'll say on the matter.

FYI, I can be very stubborn on the forums and sometimes I come across very aggressive especially if I'm not understanding things but I'm not like that in person. So sorry if that was the way I came across.

Olorin,

I dont think ANYONE likes it when there cars are being dissed, specially on a public forum, thats why I started the thread with an appology in advance to the 320i owners on this forum... And the inteion like I said, was not to belittle, but only to express my dissapointment with the cars performance. :mmm:

With regards to the 'dips in the torque curve' that you are referring to, in my experience there is some 'turbo lag' in the '05 - '07 320d, specially noted with the autobox, but from '08 to current there definately is 0 lag in the auto or the manual, and there is power all the way to the redline making the 320d in my opinion a very fun car to drive in comparrison with the 320i. The torque is adictive and then you get fuel economy second to none to boot plus a good top speed of 235km/h. A very well balanced car IMO...

The Dynamic Edition which I currently own has the same performance and dare I say better IMO, than the '03 330d that I had... And yes, it beats a 1.6 Golf and a few other surprisingly faster cars... lol :thumbsup:

 

[moranor@axis]

ill take a pic of my dyno graph and post it later when i get home

 

[BMW M]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

lol

to be fair i have only gone up against 3 but every time same thing huge smoke but not much else

If all you see is smoke, then it means you've fallen behind

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[netercol]

If all you see is smoke, then it means you've fallen behind

bwhahahahaha!

 

[moranor@axis]

ive wasted every 320d thats wanted a go :mmm:

2nd can of worms?

lol

to be fair i have only gone up against 3 but every time same thing huge smoke but not much else

If all you see is smoke, then it means you've fallen behind

lol im talking about the one on the hi-way that would not move over because he thought he would show me how fast his car is...

 

[Olorin]

Well, my motor plan expires in roughly six months time or so, so perhaps I should get that decat done then. Still not going to turn the car into a supercar but it should make things more responsive right ?

 

[netercol]

Well, my motor plan expires in roughly six months time or so, so perhaps I should get that decat done then. Still not going to turn the car into a supercar but it should make things more responsive right ?

+1 , without a doubt

 

[Olorin]

Cool thanks. Looking forward to having that done.

 

[andrewbuch]

I don't, however, think that a 1.6 can stay with my car for long on the roads.

Just need some corners & you will be winning

 

[Olorin]

Do any diesel owners have problems with the quality of fuel ? I've heard the quality of diesel we get here is not good and isn't good for the engine. Is any of that true ?

 

[AshG108]

Lets start a 320d thread now, since the 320i one has to come to a happy ending?

shall we start of with these Dynamic drivers whose cars always look dirty cause of the soot on their bumpers and their grey wheels??? :mmm::mmm:

(dig dig he he)

 

[Olorin]

Sorry for changing the topic. Although I probably would have changed the title of the thread to '320i performance severely lacking' rather than '320i is a sh**ty car !!!!"

Otherwise I'm happy with the conclusion as well, don't like ending on a sour note.

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Sorry, one last question. The performance of the automatic 320i vs manual ? Big difference ? I never had a chance to demo the auto.