F10 M5 vs F10 530d - Cost of Ownership after M/Plan

[WIDEOPN-X5]

Greetings Fanatics. After a very long hiatus I'm (partially) back into B'mers; I bought a 2016 F25 X3 20d Msport for my wife last year and its been the family chariot / her daily since. I'm still rocking the old Pug 208Gti which is a temperamental pocket rocket. I currently enjoy an absolute love / HATE relationship with it!! When it goes its immense fun to drive but when it has a sulk, I want to burn it.

So, with the Pug issues in mind, I have started looking at a BM for myself again. It won't be an every day driver (I have a dualsport bike and an old '99 Honda Ballade 150i Auto which I actually enjoy driving around locally) but more of a long distance stormer ie if I need to go to Jozy or Maputo etc for work (thats become a regular thing again).

So, as the title implies, a F10 5series is on the radar - 2 very very different options I realise. Background, my Dad has an F10 530d bought off a Fanatic some years ago. Still going beautifully and an absolute pleasure to drive when I've had the opportunity (couple of Hilton to Cape Town jaunts and numerous Jozy trips). Would not hesistate to buy one and have zeroed in on a 2016 model with low mileage for its age and all the usual ticked boxes of FSH BMW no comments clean panel gaps and straight shut-lines.

BUT. I'm also being dragged towards an F10 M5. A couple of them with between 25k and 84k km on the clock all between ZAR500 and 750k.

I have a good handle on the running costs of the 530d from my Dad's ownership experience and ongoing dealership servicing but I have no idea at all on the M5 side of things. So my question is for those of you who have had the pleasure of living with an F10 M5 for a daily and beyond Mplan life, what are the costs like? Is it a nightmare? Is it say double or more the costs of a 530d?

I realise things like brakes (rotors and pads) for an M5 are going to be very expensive by comparison to standard F10 brakes but what other things lurk out there for a prospective M5 owner??

Most grateful for any feedback.

Cheers
WideOpn Dave

 

[cRed001]

I'm also interested to know. F10 M5's seem to be a performance bargain when compared to the M2, M3/M4.

 

[kingr]

calling @TurboLlew

It sounds like you're eager on the M5. I would say go ahead if you're comfortable with R100k - R200k repair bills. Maintenance aside, which will be expensive. Any M car requires a different type of bank balance to keep them running in top shape, that's why you will find such varying prices on the market with these cars.

Most of what you would want to know is written here > https://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/threads/bmw-f10-m5-maintenance-issues-out-of-plan-items.95749/

The 530d is the sane choice here.

 

[WIDEOPN-X5]

I'm also interested to know. F10 M5's seem to be a performance bargain when compared to the M2, M3/M4.

This is definitely a fact. Just surfing Cars.co.za there are M2's and M3's/4's at similar mileage / age but the same prices or more than the M5's

 

[TurboLlew]

Greetings Fanatics. After a very long hiatus I'm (partially) back into B'mers; I bought a 2016 F25 X3 20d Msport for my wife last year and its been the family chariot / her daily since. I'm still rocking the old Pug 208Gti which is a temperamental pocket rocket. I currently enjoy an absolute love / HATE relationship with it!! When it goes its immense fun to drive but when it has a sulk, I want to burn it.

So, with the Pug issues in mind, I have started looking at a BM for myself again. It won't be an every day driver (I have a dualsport bike and an old '99 Honda Ballade 150i Auto which I actually enjoy driving around locally) but more of a long distance stormer ie if I need to go to Jozy or Maputo etc for work (thats become a regular thing again).

So, as the title implies, a F10 5series is on the radar - 2 very very different options I realise. Background, my Dad has an F10 530d bought off a Fanatic some years ago. Still going beautifully and an absolute pleasure to drive when I've had the opportunity (couple of Hilton to Cape Town jaunts and numerous Jozy trips). Would not hesistate to buy one and have zeroed in on a 2016 model with low mileage for its age and all the usual ticked boxes of FSH BMW no comments clean panel gaps and straight shut-lines.

BUT. I'm also being dragged towards an F10 M5. A couple of them with between 25k and 84k km on the clock all between ZAR500 and 750k.

I have a good handle on the running costs of the 530d from my Dad's ownership experience and ongoing dealership servicing but I have no idea at all on the M5 side of things. So my question is for those of you who have had the pleasure of living with an F10 M5 for a daily and beyond Mplan life, what are the costs like? Is it a nightmare? Is it say double or more the costs of a 530d?

I realise things like brakes (rotors and pads) for an M5 are going to be very expensive by comparison to standard F10 brakes but what other things lurk out there for a prospective M5 owner??

Most grateful for any feedback.

Cheers
WideOpn Dave

It's a 10-ish year old M car so there will be preventative work, checks and maintenance work to be done regardless of mileage. However relatively cheap to do and NOTHING like a V10. There are no 100-200K repair bills unless you BREAK the engine or gearbox. However the occasional 20-35K bill is not off the cards. That is not very easy to do. Adding power beyond 450ish kw is useless as you will never be able to really use it. I think any F10 M5 owner will tell you the same. There is a lot of parts sharing in this generation eg: coil packs are not particularly exotic. Injectors (and you SHOULD do injectors) are not insane like they were on the very first DI cars.

It is a prettier car than any current gen car (including the F90) and I really do miss it sometimes. The interior has not aged badly and you can add carplay/android auto natively on later models (or via adapters on earlier cars). Try to get the extended leather as that improves the feel inside substantially. B&O and surround view are also a nice to have.

At the mileages you're buying at above you can buy with confidence that things won't go badly wrong and you can take the preventative steps (being a coil refresh circa 100000km, check that plugs were done on time, injectors, the turbo coolant lines are attended to- there are silicone replacements that are a permanent fix now (apparently).

Issues have come from loads of power without doing rods (520+kw), not paying attention to plug gaps and heat range when modded, injectors stuck open (Definitely do these as the cost isn't huge - like sub R20K last I checked). There is a test procedure in ISTA which can measure spray pattern, but best is to pull them and leave them on tissue for a while to see for yourself.... ESPECIALLY if you do not drive the car often. You can even do a bank at a time with late index injectors. Coils as well: there are newer coils that are more reliable (random misfire codes as the coils age on earlier gen. The newer ones will also last longer).

There are no exotic servicing requirements that really come to mind. Oil changes don't require exotic oil. You should change your diff oil if there is no record of it - not an expensive exercise either. You can have your DCT serviced if you buy a car under 90000km (I had mine done by JSN - even though motorplan wouldn't pay at the time - paid cash). Past that you may have issues if you have never serviced it before and it has had worn bits sloshing around with the oil for too long. My old car has over 175000km with the new owner on original motor and gearbox.

My one comment on any modern car is that if the aircon is in any way suspect, it can turn into a 30K job which involves ripping out half your interior. Just watch out for that (this goes for any car). Mine was done under plan and I am not sure I would have been very happy paying for that.

Bear in mind I have not owned one for quite some time so look at the link in my signature.

 

[General.Massacre]

I agree with @TurboLlew on the above.
Some nice points there.

Im going to be neutral on your choices.

F10 530d, why not rather look at the F10 535d, good power, light on fuel, great cruiser with the tech. cant go wrong. and very durable motor.

F10 M5, as TurboLlew said, can be had for your requirements, and with them being in the 10yr old range now, can find some decent deals, the maintenance is not super heavy, (says me thats had my M6 for just a couple months hahaha).
Parts can be reasonable for some items in all fairness. and if you a DIYer, not too bad to work on yourself too.

@TurboLlew when you say the injectors were sub 20k, was this through BMW?
Ill be having the M6 health checked this weekend and one of the things i am doing is the Injector test plan. what would i be looking out for on this?

 

[kingr]

What I meant was, budget to potentially spend 100k - 200k on things you might need to do during the early years of ownership. Let's say the car needs a few things on that list in one year it will easily cost 100k, and throw in x2 new tyres...that's what I meant. The cost of ownership should not be underestimated compared with non-m cars. There's also m-tax on the parts.

I'm surprised at the injector comment, naively I don't expect issues with petrol injectors under 150k km unless you've put in some dodgy petrol.

I would jump for it if you're open to spending money when it's required, that's the only way to maintain an m-car and that's why I personally don't have one. Buying them is one thing, keeping them running correctly with preventative maintenance out of pocket (out of plan ) is something else.

 

[VinceM]

I have a 530d. It is highly reliable, comfortable, frugal, good, etc but lacks the Fun element.

I’d go for the F10 M5 as they are bargains buys now, There are a few comp versions for R700k thats been on the market for a while (including at BMW dealership).

Get one with the MPPSK exhaust, its all smiles each time you crank that engine.

To drop kids off, do groceries, go to work, come back sit on a couch and read a news paper, diesels. Other than being frugal, i don’t find them fun.

 

[AceRally]

Here's a sample I came accross.

 

[Mytfine]

If its not going to be a daily drive I say go M5, you only live once and as it will be low usage funds for tyres and brakes can be saved over a period.

 

[TurboLlew]

Here's a sample I

this is not exactly an average service: Looks like someone who bought a car and needed work done or someone with a lot of deferred maintenance

 

[Mytfine]

Here's a sample I came accross.




View attachment 20629

View attachment 20630


View attachment 20631

Granted those are big bills but if you plan ahead and buy the parts over a period it wont be such a kick in the nuts. Plus there are several alternatives to purchase oe or even upgraded parts that are cheaper than dealer rates.

 

[Bugger]

Woah, I wouldn't be putting a bill like that in front of someone who's surname is Machete.... That oke will chop you.

My 2c worth, having had two of the F10 M5s, issues I picked up were leaking valve cover gaskets, turbo air channel seals gone, HPFP gaskets gone, plugs were expensive and a PITA to replace, so lots of labour, munches oil, so be prepared to top up often, but like Llew said, nothing exotic luckily.

Without proper care, the bearings have been known to go on them. From experience, I wouldn't mod an F10 M5, stock they do more than enough power and they've got a great torque curve, and that V8 rumbles very nicely. Again, from experience, I wouldn't daily one again, as tempting as the prices are.

Remember, 8 plugs. 8 coils. As Llew said, gapping needs to be spot on, they are that temperamental. I don't think the interior of the F10 has aged that well. On pre 2014 models, the climate control buttons had a nasty habit of fading and looking very cheap.

The above is just based on my experience having had two of them. I also had constant water pump issues as well. In fact, my last M5 (with the new owner, now being advertised on FB Marketplace), was at BMW Northcliff two weeks ago getting a cooling system overhaul, they sent me the invoice by mistake cos it's still listed under my name on the BMW system for some reason, and this was the bill:



I would point you in the direction of a 640D Gran Coupe. That is a stunning looking car, has just about the same amount of torque as the M5, is rare, drives like a sports car (proper GT car!), is epic on the long haul and will return 6L/100km between CT and Jozi. The M5, if you lucky, around 14L/100km combined cycle (still better than the 18.8 on the 760 though!). With the fuel price going up again, there's good reason to be looking at a strong diesel.

 

[Bugger]

I am going to add something though. They are great cars. They were very underrated, and following in the footsteps of the E60 was never going to be an easy task for ANY M car. I really enjoyed the two I had and the F06 M6 Gran Coupe, they were all great cars in their own right.

But as a side note, ANY M car out of MP is risky unless you have a decent aftermarket warranty (🤣), good mechanical knowledge or a good indy mechanic, a car with good history and a decent savings account for repairs, servicing etc.

 

[TurboLlew]

There is even more reason to do REGULAR annual or 7500/10000km oil changes on these cars and NOT follow the instructions from BMW. The oil is not expensive. You don't want an engine full of sludge or varnish. At the mileages that you're looking at, again probably not a huge issue. Following in the oil intervals from BMW is like eating crayfish everyday in your youth... You may feel fine and full of energy but then by the time you're 30 years old you are going to be ready for your first heart attack.

In terms of rubber/seals and related leaks, on the Alfa group almost all of us are doing a group buy on Samco hoses, doing the timing belts, other rubber bits and bobs because rubber needs replacing. It's just the properties of rubber exacerbated by dry and hot conditions here... etc etc. Also exacerbated by the hot vee configuration of the turbos. There is nothing wrong with this as the internet seems to pretend that it is an engineering fail rather than a feat... the fact that these only start giving issues after fairly long periods of time is a good thing and as such you shouldn't be worried really about changing these if they lasted that long period of time/mileage.

You can't go into this expecting camry maintenance schedules and bills when it's exotic levels of performance (and beyond). Ask me how many 488 histories I've now seen with replacement turbos, seals, leaks etc under 20000km... even 2 replacement engines. These are 6/7 year old cars... not ancient...

It's worth noting that these cars are expensive out of motorplan but they do not have any major design flaws or quality issues. Things that spring to mind: the Mercedes V12 coolant routing, V8 cam design, Jaguar fuel line routings, McLaren... well everything on early cars LOL... there are cars that are ACTUAL time bombs. In short there is nothing that money cannot fix and nothing that is 'destined to fail' unless the maintenance is not carried out. Is this maintenance going to entail more 'stuff' in the form of maintaining the hot thing in the middle of the engine that enables that table mountain torque curve? the bits to cool it? Probably yes... We are now (after many years) hearing about bearings and it is related to other factors in these cars histories... but even in saying that, bearings, valve adjustments - checking suspension torque - every performance car has things like this and most don't tend to last 140K+ km before they become issues.

We forget that these things are engineering marvels... perhaps forgetting what the 90s and 2000s were like and becoming numb to power (and how seemingly easily it is made these days LOL)

On another note, there are cars with worse performance in all aspects that attract R100-250K bills for awfully mundane things - someone posted a 250K clutch job on his Gallardo the other day... You can expect about 25000km out of that. I didn't miss a zero. Even when talking about the E60 these are scary bills for a BMW but nothing compared to what similarly engineered/performance exotic cars will cost you. A R30K clutch job in isolation seem high but considering it is in your 400kw lounge on wheels and will last you 100000+km it's not all that bad.

Like I initially said though, if a 20/30K occasional bill is going to scare you then an M is not really going to do much for your mental health LOL. You need to be able to enjoy them without worrying.

 

[kingr]

Like I initially said though, if a 20/30K occasional bill is going to scare you then an M is not really going to do much for your mental health LOL. You need to be able to enjoy them without worrying.

@ OP, how does this sit with you? I'm sure you can decide by now if the diesel or petrol is for you

Excellent recommendation on the 640d G/Coupe from @Bugger

 

[hansi06]

BMW 6 Series 640d Coupe M Sport for sale in Sandton - ID: 27247373

Used 2016 BMW 6 Series 640d Coupe M Sport For Sale - R 460 000 - ID: 27247373

www.autotrader.co.za

 

[ajm]

The F10 M5 is a beast and, if you are lucky enough to secure a clean example, it is great value for money. It is a highway bruiser which, with downpipes and a tune, will not be outdone by too many supercars. However, without knowing the car's history, it is hit and miss. Some use oil between oil services while others don't. Some run rod bearings while most don't. I think this has a lot to do with how the car was maintained and driven.

I suggest an oil change every 5000 km or once annually, whichever comes sooner. BMW's recommended service intervals are way too long. I also suggest running a good quality 5W 40 oil rather than the 0W30 oil that BMW recommends. In our climate, 5W 40 seems a more sensible option.
It is equally important to ensure that the oil temp is up before getting on the throttle and to allow the car to idle for a while before switching off.
Fuel injectors do sometimes leak with resultant fuel dilation in the oil and if you buy one with its original injectors fitted, then I would (depending on mileage) consider changing the injectors out.

I suspect that rod bearing issues are invariably attributable to poor maintenance, leaking fuel injectors and/or bad driving habits.

I also suggest changing all the other fluids (gearbox, differential and coolant) and, when it comes to the coolant, using distilled water and the BMW antifreeze combined.

If you're looking for a little extra grunt, a tune and downpipes will offer plenty. You should, however, ensure though that your tuner caps the torque at around 900nm. These cars make maximum torque at around 3,500 rpm and running higher torque than that may result in a bent conrod and will expedite clutch wear.

If you're wanting to do launches (which I don't recommend), then you going to need to fit an upgraded differential bracket (which is not cheap).

I still like the interior. Switching out the head unit with an android car play unit modernises the interior while at the same time providing desirable additional functionality.

If I were looking to buy, I would look for one with low mileage unless I was buying from someone who had implemented the maintenance measures and employed the driving habits that I have described.

 

[BeemerFanatic]

Spending money on a depreciating asset. It’s a luxury. Whichever option you choose, just enjoy it.

 

[Bugger]

Get this and make it special!

BMW M5 M5 Pure Metal M5 Edition for sale in Milnerton - ID: 27376230

Used 2015 BMW M5 M5 Pure Metal M5 Edition For Sale - R 699 900 - ID: 27376230

www.autotrader.co.za

BMW 6 Series 640d Coupe M Sport for sale in Sandton - ID: 27247373

Used 2016 BMW 6 Series 640d Coupe M Sport For Sale - R 460 000 - ID: 27247373

www.autotrader.co.za

That's very nice, very very nice. And LCI which is even better. The headlight changes on the LCI make the looks, subtle but aggressive.