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F30 B48 Turbo repair, Do I have to remove the Cat?
- Thread starter zippy320
- Start date
zippy320
Well-known member
Hi Guys! Just an update
So , the cars still been sitting parked off in the garage all this time , Really didn't have time or had a chance to look at it , But this weekend , I thought , Meh , let me just remove the cat and turbo and see where it goes , Whats the worst that can happen lol , It will sit in the garage again for another few years erm or more . So my last attempt at removing the turbo , I tried to remove it without removing the cat , This time I decided to just remove the cat , remove the pipes from the block and take the whole thing out pipes and everything . Once the turbo is out , I can remove the pipes from there .
With alot of scratches , bumps , blood loss , cuts , things falling into my eyes etc , I finally managed to take the cat and the turbo out of the car .
Cat was full of oil , Not too full as leaking out in gushes full , but there was oil in it . The turbo was about the same , I guess because we didnt run the engine after the first sign of smoke , that probably limited the amount of oil that would have gone into it , The O2 sensors at the back seemed ok , but the one at the front is caked in oil . I will attempt to clean both .
After taking off the cat , a small swirl (turbine?) fell off out of it . So this is where im at with the F30 and its turbo issue .
Next step , collect all the parts needed , send this turbo in for repairs and reinstall .
I wish to replace all the plastic CCV pipes , clean and flush all the oil pipes as well as replace the valve cover , I dont think this cover had ever been replaced under motorplan .
This fell out of the front part of the cat , by the piece that attaches to the turbo , isn't this shaft supposed to be connected to the front turbine? Has it broken in two?
This is inside the turbo where the turbo attaches to the cat , I think the turbine goes in that hole .
This is the mess I have made in my garage lol , there is the cat and the turbo out .
I feel as if Iv accomplished something today .
So , the cars still been sitting parked off in the garage all this time , Really didn't have time or had a chance to look at it , But this weekend , I thought , Meh , let me just remove the cat and turbo and see where it goes , Whats the worst that can happen lol , It will sit in the garage again for another few years erm or more . So my last attempt at removing the turbo , I tried to remove it without removing the cat , This time I decided to just remove the cat , remove the pipes from the block and take the whole thing out pipes and everything . Once the turbo is out , I can remove the pipes from there .
With alot of scratches , bumps , blood loss , cuts , things falling into my eyes etc , I finally managed to take the cat and the turbo out of the car .
Cat was full of oil , Not too full as leaking out in gushes full , but there was oil in it . The turbo was about the same , I guess because we didnt run the engine after the first sign of smoke , that probably limited the amount of oil that would have gone into it , The O2 sensors at the back seemed ok , but the one at the front is caked in oil . I will attempt to clean both .
After taking off the cat , a small swirl (turbine?) fell off out of it . So this is where im at with the F30 and its turbo issue .
Next step , collect all the parts needed , send this turbo in for repairs and reinstall .
I wish to replace all the plastic CCV pipes , clean and flush all the oil pipes as well as replace the valve cover , I dont think this cover had ever been replaced under motorplan .
This fell out of the front part of the cat , by the piece that attaches to the turbo , isn't this shaft supposed to be connected to the front turbine? Has it broken in two?
This is inside the turbo where the turbo attaches to the cat , I think the turbine goes in that hole .
This is the mess I have made in my garage lol , there is the cat and the turbo out .
I feel as if Iv accomplished something today .
Last edited:
zippy320
Well-known member
Small Update , forgot to add .
To clean the cat , I dunked the whole thing in a strong mixture of , Prepsol cleaner , hot water and Dish-washing liquid , im going to let it soak for a few days , run a hose through it , then spray it with compressed air , and let it sit in the sun to dry.
Will this help in cleaning it out?
To clean the cat , I dunked the whole thing in a strong mixture of , Prepsol cleaner , hot water and Dish-washing liquid , im going to let it soak for a few days , run a hose through it , then spray it with compressed air , and let it sit in the sun to dry.
Will this help in cleaning it out?
Gordvisr
Well-known member
Eina, yup your shaft broke, hence having oil everywhere , could soak all your parts in paraffin or diesel it cleans out oil quite well. Gabby from fastec should be able to help with repairs on the turbo, replace oil feed and return lines on installation. Things also to remember on turbo cars, after driving hard do not switch off engine immediately, idle for a while, these shafts spins at a very high rpm when boosting and take some time to slow down. If engine is switched off there is little to no oil going to the bearings and this also causes the shaft failures.
Solo Man
Well-known member
If i were you i would just open the cat and remove the innards as the stuff in there i do not think you will get it clean and working again as it should as i have read that if one gets petrol in there for example when bump starting the car, the cat is done for as the petrol interacts with the stuff inside the cat and destroys the function. Also, the oil will clog up the cat and you will lose performance. Just knock out the innards, clean the inside and put the empty cat back on the car. Just my 2c's.
zippy320
Well-known member
So this Afternoon I went to BMW to find out some costings on the pipes and O-Rings
The Cost of the pipes are a bit steep. I have managed to get the pipes off the Turbo without any damage , Will wash them up and keep them aside .
Cost of the pipes are like over R1200 each! So its a good thing I never cut them , Problem now is those O rings , BMW has the part number on their system , but they tell me that they don't supply the part , he checked his system and there was nothing , its never been supplied , he also checked Germany and there was nothing there as well , you have to buy the whole pipe.
Is there anything special about these O-rings? Can I go to an O-Ring supplier and buy them? What should I ask for?
@Solo Man , If I do that , Remove the interior parts of the cat , wont I have issues with my 02 sensors and fuel consumption, power etc and such? Would I have to add cat foolers? Would it be better if I replaced it with a "downpipe" ? I don't really want to car to be noisy.
@Gordvisr Yup it does look like the shaft has broken in two , Do you think the Turbo can be saved? I cant see any damage to the housing , im assuming a rebuilder will replace all the inner pieces . Fastec is in Jhb I think , would love to have sent it there but its a little far , Im in Durban , and the guys at BMW advised me to take it to Turbo Exchange in Prospecton .
Can I request that they make the turbo "stronger" ? or can they do any modifications to it that will make it more reliable? Im not looking for more power or anything of that sort , just reliability . What do people do with turbos when in need of a rebuild?
Gordvisr
Well-known member
more reliable is to take care like previously mentioned, regular oil service also plays a role. make 100% sure the oil feed pipe is not clogged up. Oil starvation is a big turbo shaft killer. Most turbo repair shops will give a guarantee only if oil feed and return lines is also replaced with OEM units.
Not sure who is the go to guys down in Kzn, maybe someone on the forum has some insights.
Not sure who is the go to guys down in Kzn, maybe someone on the forum has some insights.
zippy320
Well-known member
100% agree on oil services and maintenance , Sadly in this case , the turbo failed just 2000km after the motor plan ended . We had to keep to the BMW oil change schedule which is horrendous , I generally change the oil, and filters on our cars by myself by at least 5000 to 7000 km . But on this car we couldn't do much .
Thanks so much for the info! Had no Idea about the oil lines , I will ask them if its a requirement. I will take the lines with me when I drop off the turbo .
I Managed to find the seals for the lines , Goldwagen sells the turbo seals for the pipes made by elring for R18 each . I see they have the Manifold seal as well by Elring .
As the cars sitting anyway , I can take my time and work on it slowly, so iv decided to just do everything slowly .
Will do the turbo part, first , I think as a precautionary measure I will replace the o2 sensors with new ones and all the seals etc related to the turbo and cat , hopefully soaking it in soapy water and flushing it out helps the cat , It does look much cleaner now as compared to what it was .
Once I flush it out I will check if its worked or not but it is starting to look clean again .
After im done with the turbo, ill replace the valve cover as well with the spark plugs and whatever seals are associated with it . The CCV is built into the valve cover and from experience with the E46 , that thing must be changed before 100k and I dont think BMW had changed it under plan . But that will be part 2 of the project .
Im going to take it to Turbo Exchange , A few people have given me good reviews about them , I had a friend repair the turbo on his Alfa 159 by them a few weeks ago and he hasn't had a problem since .
Turbo Charger Sales and Reconditioning
Turbo Exchange are the leading turbo suppliers in the industry. We offer impeccable turbo service to our valuable customers.
www.turboexchange.co.za
Lets see how this goes .
DarrylvanNiekerk
Active member
Not sure if you will need to replace your O2 sensors unless they are actually faulty, they are most likely just dirty.
They generally aren't a service item as far as I am aware and with a good cleaning will continue to do their job just fine.
O2 sensors aren't cheap.
They generally aren't a service item as far as I am aware and with a good cleaning will continue to do their job just fine.
O2 sensors aren't cheap.
Solo Man
Well-known member
On my diesel i do not find the car any noisier than before since removing the cat and putting the empty box back on the car. My car also do not have any sensors either before or after the cat so cannot comment on that. I would think that you could get away with it but should you get an error light you could have it coded out. Car should run slightly better without cat anyway.
zippy320
Well-known member
Thanks @DarrylvanNiekerk , I cleaned them up , they do look pretty new now , used a generous amount of parts cleaner and buffed it with the rough foam thing of the dremal tool . When everythings reinstalled , I hope I dont end up with any error codes.
This car seems to have two different sensors , one has a black wire , which is attached before the cat , the other is a grey wire which is after the cat . Prob to detect before and after .
They cost around R1400 new each from Goldwagen for the Bosch parts . Parts prices just seem to add up on this car lol
This car seems to have two different sensors , one has a black wire , which is attached before the cat , the other is a grey wire which is after the cat . Prob to detect before and after .
They cost around R1400 new each from Goldwagen for the Bosch parts . Parts prices just seem to add up on this car lol
tman
Well-known member
wat
DarrylvanNiekerk
Active member
@zippy320 - just check those sensors using Real OEM as from my experience one will be for cylinders 1&4 and the other will be for 2&3, you will be able to see using the colour of the cable.
You will still have downstream O2 sensors after the cats and those have different plugs.
The plugs are the same on the upstream sensors (at least in my case they were) and I battled to figure out which plug went into which connecter when reinstalling.
I had a bit of a misfire so used a scanning took to check live data on the sensors and found the readings were mixed up. Once they were plugged in correctly my Lambda readings were at 1 across all cylinders.
zippy320
Well-known member
Hi @DarrylvanNiekerk
My plugs are different , The short one which has a black cable and goes before the cat has 5 pins and a bigger plug
the longer one which has a black cable on the downpipe , has 4 pins and has a smaller cable , this goes after the cat on the downpipe. Checked them out , part numbers are different , The ones from goldwagen are identical to what BMW sells and are bosch. I really hope I dont need to buy them lol
So a small update , took the turbo to turbo exchange to have them rebuild it , very impressive place , they took me on a tour of their factory , rebuild area , showed me all their machines and such . I will admit , it was more costly then what others quoted , but still more affordable then a new unit from Alert engine and Turbo Direct ( Wont even mention BMW`s price), and when the core is replaced , they told me its basically replacing the whole turbo and reusing the shell . I will take pictures and post them up when its returned .
They have told me that I must replace the oil inlet pipe to hold the warranty. Im going to replace that pipe and the outlet pipe . Will have to buy it from BMW , Its about R1500 or there about each .
I will also replace the valve cover , im sure the CCV has something to do with it failing .
They told me that the reason for the failure was due to severe lack of lubrication .
This Engine does not have an oil cooled intercooler , It has an air/water cooled intercooler that's built into the intake manifold . Which im thankfull for as I dont have to worry about removing an intercooler to flush and test . There arnt that many pipes as well associated with the turbo that I can see .
What else would cause a severe lack of lubrication ?
DarrylvanNiekerk
Active member
@zippy320 - the cat is a simple delete (keep the fitting in place for correct air flow) and can be coded out but it is safer to keep the O2 sensors active so the engine knows what is happening fueling wise and does not run with default settings.
Gordvisr
Well-known member
On most engines, the feed pipe start clogging up, even with regular service intervals, mainly due to the thickness of the pipe( especially through the flex part ) and not to mention the heat it is exposed to being close to exhaust manifold, same happens with return pipe. The price at BMW for the feed pipe is actually not that bad considering the cost you might have to go through should the turbo fail again.
