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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Why are x pipes/ down pipes so expensive
- Thread starter Jerez
- Start date
Carbon
///Member
Just to give you an Idea, I can buy 60mm titanium pipe for about R900 per meter. Not nearly as expensive as people make it out to be.
Pipe benders are cheap if it is not CNC. In fact, I can coppy a set of akro pipes for cheaper than an original if I hire a tig welder and buy a bender. Usually, with most products, you can only make it cheaper if you make many sets.
Everybody is greedy.
Pipe benders are cheap if it is not CNC. In fact, I can coppy a set of akro pipes for cheaper than an original if I hire a tig welder and buy a bender. Usually, with most products, you can only make it cheaper if you make many sets.
Everybody is greedy.
a mandrel bender is not cheap or small... I think the issue comes in where you need to set up for a run...
you cant just quickly bend one pipe because it will cost you too much in steup time... then you have to invest in a production run... depending on the car you may have stock that sits for a while before you recoup the money invested...
you cant just quickly bend one pipe because it will cost you too much in steup time... then you have to invest in a production run... depending on the car you may have stock that sits for a while before you recoup the money invested...
Jerez
Well-known member
So with that logic these pipes ought to be very cheap cos the these are well established companies whose tooling costs would have Ben paid back years ago.
As I said earlier- GREED
There's no justification for such high pricing- these companies know that its a product for a premium brand, and for that reason alone we get screwed.
My views are the same for software too.
As I said earlier- GREED
There's no justification for such high pricing- these companies know that its a product for a premium brand, and for that reason alone we get screwed.
My views are the same for software too.
Well your thinking is correct if you consider that by building a car from the parts bin you will pay many times over the new car price.
I often times am at a loss to place value equivalance on some of the parts as they look cheap feel cheap and equally are cheap to produce yet manufacturers selling them via the parts department charge an arm and a leg for them
By way of example the exhaust manifold nuts for the M62 are R50 each from the dealer and from Wurth they are R15 each.
Exactly the same in material used as well as design.....go figure
I often times am at a loss to place value equivalance on some of the parts as they look cheap feel cheap and equally are cheap to produce yet manufacturers selling them via the parts department charge an arm and a leg for them
By way of example the exhaust manifold nuts for the M62 are R50 each from the dealer and from Wurth they are R15 each.
Exactly the same in material used as well as design.....go figure
Jerez
Well-known member
Cyclone101 said:
This costs $6385
Bender - R40 000 (gumtree)
Pipe - R5 000 at most
That leaves almost R20 000 for for couplings, brackets, etc. and two silencers.
That is what I call a rip-off.
This is the age old story of the haves and have nots
Overpriced aftermarket accessories and software.
One of the reasons I've put off fitting a set of x pipes was that there was that bit of software you need to switch off the engine check light.
So,I could do some " quality " pipes for £1100, the £300 for software to adjust lightBUT HERE THE BEST BIT....£580 for a full stage 2 remap, which will also switch off the light.
You don't have to be a genius to figure out which software package I'm FORCED to opt for.
THEN....locate the craftsman who was contracted to make Evolves X pipes ( they charge £1800) call him and discuss your needs and will make the SAME pipe for £800--- the guys called Russ Fellows.
I'm still screwed with the software though.... So the big angry machine wins AGAIN.
Not right- not fair
akrapovic are the market leader...
sure if discount how much it costs to stay market leader its expensive
sure if you copy a design you know is good your costs will be less
im not saying they not putting a hefty markup on the name alone but often all these factors put up price alot and they have no choice to push up prices...
sure if discount how much it costs to stay market leader its expensive
sure if you copy a design you know is good your costs will be less
im not saying they not putting a hefty markup on the name alone but often all these factors put up price alot and they have no choice to push up prices...
sash
///Member
I think theres also a lot of money spent on research. I believe cars are purchased in order to test and retest systems. I also don't think that copy systems will get the same gains, but whether the difference is worth the cost??????
theres always money behind brands, which the customer ends up paying.
theres always money behind brands, which the customer ends up paying.
///Shaun
Banned
Jerez said:
Have to agree 100% here with you.
Persons often market modding items but do consumers ever go down to request bench flows etc.
I know a company that sells a so called reputable downpipe for example. Had it fitted to my 335i , was not happy with the workmanship on it and decided to take it out. Little did I know that when i settled for a more reputable brand (CP-E from BMS) not only did I gain power that showed on a dyno and road but also had the reassuring fact that the company mailed me flow charts (cad drawings) explaining how its built and the material used. Gain was almost 15wkw
WAS NOT A BIG TRADE SECRECT (BS) so to say as so called modding places like to call it.
tcal69
///Member
End of the day, if your choice to purchase the item or not.
The market defines the price, not the supplier. If the supplier just set the price as he/she like, and no one could afford or buy the product, and I'm pretty sure they will be out of business quickly.
I had the Akra on my car, do I think is overprice? Yup, but I also think is worth every penny:=):
The market defines the price, not the supplier. If the supplier just set the price as he/she like, and no one could afford or buy the product, and I'm pretty sure they will be out of business quickly.
I had the Akra on my car, do I think is overprice? Yup, but I also think is worth every penny:=):
Executer
Inactive
I say...reputable companies can charge what they charge as a lot goes into R&D.
A lot of the smaller companies charge similar, which might not give you the quality and results that the other companies product will. But somewhere, someone had to take the time and capital to make that product what it is.
I take the company I work for, they spent in excess of $1 Billion last year on Research and Development alone...
A lot of the smaller companies charge similar, which might not give you the quality and results that the other companies product will. But somewhere, someone had to take the time and capital to make that product what it is.
I take the company I work for, they spent in excess of $1 Billion last year on Research and Development alone...
Jerez
Well-known member
I spoke of the investment into the research and developement into product and how these companies need to recoup their costs -BOBBINS
Id like to draw everyones attention to what VW did with the mk1 golf shape for some ....what 40/45 years.
and this is typical of how us consumers have to bow down to manufactures and take it up the jacksy.
The whole story is that,companies want exclusivity - they dont the masses to have their product,just the elite few.....and therefore charge a damn arm and a leg for it.
Id like to draw everyones attention to what VW did with the mk1 golf shape for some ....what 40/45 years.
and this is typical of how us consumers have to bow down to manufactures and take it up the jacksy.
The whole story is that,companies want exclusivity - they dont the masses to have their product,just the elite few.....and therefore charge a damn arm and a leg for it.
Carbon
///Member
I guess it could also be the whole electric-shaver-argument all over again.
The shavers only sold well when it was very expensive, same cheap product did not. Stupidity can not be argued with, only exploited.
Consumerism and brand marketing are all by products of ignorance. Not that I care much, I exploit people's ineptitude regularly.
Regards
Jacques
The shavers only sold well when it was very expensive, same cheap product did not. Stupidity can not be argued with, only exploited.
Consumerism and brand marketing are all by products of ignorance. Not that I care much, I exploit people's ineptitude regularly.
Regards
Jacques
I totally agree with you guys , what I also can't understand is the prices they charging out there for Software, its insane !!
Firstly we get ripped off for car prices and then all these extras are insane.
The guys overseas pick up cars and accessories so cheap it makes my stomach revolt
Firstly we get ripped off for car prices and then all these extras are insane.
The guys overseas pick up cars and accessories so cheap it makes my stomach revolt
if a product is really over priced if leaves plenty room for others to develop their own and fill the gap...
yes you will have some who trade on their exclusivity but what happens the the cheaper guys sell more and make their product better? market is not set by exclusivity it is set by what people think is worth paying for
I find it rather amusing that the same people who are willing to spend more on their cars buy buying a BMW in the 1st place because of the small things that make it better than other cars... also question if better after market Items are worth the cost...
its like building a nice house and fitting the cheapest door handles and bathroom fixtures that wont fall off in the 1st year... do you need a door handle that looks good, feels smooth and weighted when you use it?
yes you could argue it is over priced compared to the cheaper offerings but every time you open to door you will feel the refinement that went into the expensive door handle...
it costs money to refine a product BMW is a good example of this...
yes you will have some who trade on their exclusivity but what happens the the cheaper guys sell more and make their product better? market is not set by exclusivity it is set by what people think is worth paying for
I find it rather amusing that the same people who are willing to spend more on their cars buy buying a BMW in the 1st place because of the small things that make it better than other cars... also question if better after market Items are worth the cost...
its like building a nice house and fitting the cheapest door handles and bathroom fixtures that wont fall off in the 1st year... do you need a door handle that looks good, feels smooth and weighted when you use it?
yes you could argue it is over priced compared to the cheaper offerings but every time you open to door you will feel the refinement that went into the expensive door handle...
it costs money to refine a product BMW is a good example of this...
CocoPops
Honorary ///Member
I think a few good points made here.. and while it is easy to replicate, the original requires a lot more resource.
Things that are not normally take into when calculating a price:
1. It is a business - it is there to make a profit
2. It requires space (Land)
3. It Requires a workshop
4. It requires a lot of equipment (Premium brands use premium equipment)
5. It requires human capital (labour). (do you want the best products? You gotta get the the gest human capital. Do you want the best human capital, you gotta pay them well)
6. It needs to do R&D to make sure what it is offering is sound (Again, quality of engineering)
7. It needs to meet regulatory requirements
8. It needs to pay to have regulatory approval
9. It has miscellanious overheads (such as computers, programs, cad systems)
10. It needs to return an investment to shareholders
11. It needs to make enough money to continue this process
12. It needs to take bad cash flows into account
13. It needs advertising & Promotions
14. Endorsements (BMW approved, that aint free)
Those are just some overheads, that a man in his backyard does not encounter.
Things that are not normally take into when calculating a price:
1. It is a business - it is there to make a profit
2. It requires space (Land)
3. It Requires a workshop
4. It requires a lot of equipment (Premium brands use premium equipment)
5. It requires human capital (labour). (do you want the best products? You gotta get the the gest human capital. Do you want the best human capital, you gotta pay them well)
6. It needs to do R&D to make sure what it is offering is sound (Again, quality of engineering)
7. It needs to meet regulatory requirements
8. It needs to pay to have regulatory approval
9. It has miscellanious overheads (such as computers, programs, cad systems)
10. It needs to return an investment to shareholders
11. It needs to make enough money to continue this process
12. It needs to take bad cash flows into account
13. It needs advertising & Promotions
14. Endorsements (BMW approved, that aint free)
Those are just some overheads, that a man in his backyard does not encounter.
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