Why an oil change is so important

[freerider]

I now use the Liqui Moly blue bottle 5W30 one in my car, I used to use about 500ml of Casdrol SLX every 1000kms, which BMW said was absolutely normal!

Since having the Liqui Moly in my car, I have not used a drop!!! This included a trip to East London in April. All in all I have done about 6000kms without having to top up the oil!

 

[plonkster]

Even though it has the correct Longlife Approval it is usually a SG or SL Spec which is the performance spec of the oil. Even more so vital with diesels where CF is considered a everyday spec with the latest being CI-4. Check the performance API rating on those oils from Midas... Then understand why there is an issue.

I thought LL01 is a BMW spec that would include all the various things about the oils suitability for the job. It was the only number I could find anywhere that is supposed to indicate what oil to use. I am used to petrol oils where every higher grade usually covers all the requirements of the lower grades as well (eg. API-SL is better than API-SG, and can be used in place of the latter), but I am told this is not the same for Diesel oil. That makes it pretty darn impossible to know what oil to get, so what I do is look for something that is approved by the relevant BMW standard.

But I'll check the bottle next time I'm in a Midas. Its not the oil I use btw

The 108KW TDI requires a 505 01 approved oil. This is a VAG specification for both VW and SEAT specifically for this engine. This approval however makes the oil very expensive. An example:

--- snip ---

The recall didnt change the turbo's.... It changed the oil. Once again... Dealerships taking short cuts...

I read about the oil-spec change in CAR. Didn't realise this is connected to the turbo issue, thanks for the info.

Funny thing is, they changed to full synthetic even on the petrol non-turbo models! Some clients with citi's aren't too happy about the new increased service costs

 

[Mike1]

The petrol spec is pretty easy to go with...

If your car calls for a SL spec oil then you can put a newer SM spec oil in.

Same story with diesels... What you need to be careful of though is that on the older diesel engines...1990 and prior the spec is hugely important often they need to have the old CC spec etc etc else they have huge issues...

As far as BMW Longlife approval goes... LL 01 is a 2001 spec. The Liqui Moly oils like the one Don is using is LL 04 which is as far as I am aware the latest Longlife approval.

The sludging issue we believe boils down to the LL 01 approved oil with a SL spec (Castrol SLX for example) being used on extended drain intervals. We have BMW dealers using only Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 because it is the latest API spec and has LL 04 approval. And guess what... No sludging... :thumbsup:

Both oils are exceptionally good. But in this case the Liqui Moly is better suited.

With regards to the Polo.

The 1.9TDI in 96kw form has no turbo issues whatsoever... The 108kw version suffers from Heat soak.

Basically what happens is people use the car and the turbo heats up... Because the turbo shares oil with the engine it is only lubricated whilst the engine is running... So numpty sales rep runs the car and switches it off without allowing at least 30 seconds for the turbo to cool... So engine off... No oil flow... And heat soak...

During heat soak (Usually an hour after the car has been turned off) the oil in the turbo can reach temperatures of up to 400 degrees celsius... Now considering that a Mineral oil flashes at 250 degrees you can understand why they have started using hydrocracked or Fully Synthetic Lubricants which flash at a higher temperature.

So the oil in your turbo which is a semi synthetic, dated API performance spec is sitting at 400 degrees celsius... Because of its low flash point the oil flashes off leaving behind sulphated ash in the form of carbon and lacquer which hardens like a thick layer of cement.... Im not lying.. I have a piece of oil from a turbo on my dads desk.

Now when you start your car again the next morning the turbo breaks this layer and damage slowly occurs to the turbo until it eventually breaks. Also keep in mind that your Hydro dynamic layer of lubrication (Basic film of lubrication in an engine) is now also impaired because during heat soak where the oil flashes it loses parts of the additives in the oil which means your oil cant work as well in the rest of the engine.

The 505 01 spec specifically for the 108kw TDI Engine contains additives etc etc to stop this from occurring. But because of its price most people refuse to use it....

I hope that explains a little for you. :wave:

Mike

 

[Twinz]

What the hell is wrong with people!!! Do you they not assume that the engine needs any type of service...ever???!!!???

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::cursin:

 

[plonkster]

Hold one, lots of info in Mike's post, so extensive quoting is about to happen...

If your car calls for a SL spec oil then you can put a newer SM spec oil in.

Yup, I used to run SJ and later SL in the Corolla which called for SF. The factory fill was Castrol GTX2 which was SJ at the time (if I recall). Ran the engine on GTX2 and later on High Mileage until the day I sold it without any issues. I did however avoid the basic GTX which although SG (and therefore sufficient), just seemed like being a cheap ass.

Also, I had the 98 model which called for 10 000km service intervals.

As far as BMW Longlife approval goes... LL 01 is a 2001 spec. The Liqui Moly oils like the one Don is using is LL 04 which is as far as I am aware the latest Longlife approval.

I have LL04 in mine at the moment. But to give you an idea, very few oils actually list the BMW standards, so you need to be "in the know" to know what is equivalent.

At some point, for example., I thought I probably needed to find out what oil it needs and spent about a day trying to figure out what the heck global-dhd1 is (among others) and what it means...

With regards to the Polo.

The 1.9TDI in 96kw form has no turbo issues whatsoever... The 108kw version suffers from Heat soak.

Sounds a bit like the BMW diesels. The 100kw model supposedly have fewer turbo problems than the 110kw model. And on a side note, the manual transmission 100kw models have no swirl flaps either

Basically what happens is people use the car and the turbo heats up... Because the turbo shares oil with the engine it is only lubricated whilst the engine is running... So numpty sales rep runs the car and switches it off without allowing at least 30 seconds for the turbo to cool... So engine off... No oil flow... And heat soak...

This bit I know about. Didn't quite realise 30 seconds is enough and after hard driving I usually give it at least two minutes. But there is another technique I learned from my dad: Don't drive it flat-out until you reach the destination, just slow down the last few kilometers. You get there a minute later, but you don't have to wait to cool the turbo, so you actually SAVE time.

During heat soak (Usually an hour after the car has been turned off) the oil in the turbo can reach temperatures of up to 400 degrees celsius... Now considering that a Mineral oil flashes at 250 degrees you can understand why they have started using hydrocracked or Fully Synthetic Lubricants which flash at a higher temperature.

So the oil in your turbo which is a semi synthetic, dated API performance spec is sitting at 400 degrees celsius... Because of its low flash point the oil flashes off leaving behind sulphated ash in the form of carbon and lacquer which hardens like a thick layer of cement.... Im not lying.. I have a piece of oil from a turbo on my dads desk.

Now when you start your car again the next morning the turbo breaks this layer and damage slowly occurs to the turbo until it eventually breaks. Also keep in mind that your Hydro dynamic layer of lubrication (Basic film of lubrication in an engine) is now also impaired because during heat soak where the oil flashes it loses parts of the additives in the oil which means your oil cant work as well in the rest of the engine.

The 505 01 spec specifically for the 108kw TDI Engine contains additives etc etc to stop this from occurring. But because of its price most people refuse to use it....

I hope that explains a little for you. :wave:

That bit I didn't know although it makes complete sense. Thanks mate.

 

[clutchplate]

Plonkster, I'm not saying the Polo was a better car, it really was a fun drive, but the BMW salesman told him to rather go for the Polo since he was such a lazy dumbf*** to throw away a sale.

I have to tell you, the moent you walk into the BMW dealership in Bloem you get that airy fairy feeling & the people check you out as WTF are you doing here. Don't like the place at all.

Hey bro !

lol, Every BMW dealership I walk into seems like that... Sp4nn3r and I tested it once.. we dressed in suites and went to bmw centurion, demanded to check out the new 7 series... dude, it was like instant attention.. but when I walk in there with casuals.. they don't even look at me. And If I walk thru the cars.. they don't come ask nothing lol. its hilarious.

 

[Mike1]

Its a pleasure.

The BMW approved oils HAVE to have the BMW approvals on the can....If a bloke shows you a Data Sheet with an approval for BMW LL 04 but the can doesnt have the approval on it... Then stay faaar away....

Sounds a bit like the BMW diesels. The 100kw model supposedly have fewer turbo problems than the 110kw model. And on a side note, the manual transmission 100kw models have no swirl flaps either

The interesting thing is that the Seat FR TDI which also uses the 108KW Polo Engine has different mapping to gain more toque or something along those lines and those turbo's are even more prone to blowing the the same engine in the Polo.

Barons Bellville actually told me that when a Seat or Polo comes in with a blown turbo they send the oil for analysis and then if it doesnt conform to 505 01 spec they void the cars warranty. The funny thing is that VW do all the services!!

This bit I know about. Didn't quite realise 30 seconds is enough and after hard driving I usually give it at least two minutes. But there is another technique I learned from my dad: Don't drive it flat-out until you reach the destination, just slow down the last few kilometers. You get there a minute later, but you don't have to wait to cool the turbo, so you actually SAVE time.

When I say 30 seconds (I should have been more specific) I was reffering to what you mentioned... Drive slowly a block or so from your house to allow the turbos to cool down and slow down in speed. The Porsche (Twin turbo) recommends 1 minute cooling time after a drive.

If you listen carefully (Jandre may have heard this)... On the Golf 5 GTI it actually has an auxillary pump which continues pumping oil after the car is switched off so you dont need to cool the Turbo down. If you listen carefully you can hear the pump running after a hard drive...

The new Audi Q7 turbo diesel engines (If I remember correctly it was an Audi). If driven hard at a certain temperature it simply wont switch off... I had a client see me a while ago... He got out the SUV locked it and it was still running! It switches off by itself after its happy the turbo is sufficiently cooled.

Its very interesting and to be honest I am still amazed at the technology in cars.

Mike

 

[plonkster]

Plonkster, I'm not saying the Polo was a better car, it really was a fun drive, but the BMW salesman told him to rather go for the Polo since he was such a lazy dumbf*** to throw away a sale.

I have to tell you, the moent you walk into the BMW dealership in Bloem you get that airy fairy feeling & the people check you out as WTF are you doing here. Don't like the place at all.

Sorry mate, didn't mean to suggest you said it I meant that not only is this person a bad salesman, he is wrong too

Given Mike's post about how the oil was the issue rather than the car, I may have been wrong assuming that the polo is a bad car though

lol, Every BMW dealership I walk into seems like that... Sp4nn3r and I tested it once.. we dressed in suites and went to bmw centurion, demanded to check out the new 7 series... dude, it was like instant attention.. but when I walk in there with casuals.. they don't even look at me. And If I walk thru the cars.. they don't come ask nothing lol. its hilarious.

That's not restricted to BMW dealers. It happens everywhere I go. The only suit I own is the one I got married in, and I hardly ever wear it. And because I'm a programmer who can pitch up for work in slacks, crocks and with a stubbly beard... well you get the picture.

When I bought my first car right out of university, nobody took me seriously and it was SUCH a pain getting any service. I eventually bought a car "unseen" over the phone, in Mosselbay, with the proviso that I can cancel the deal if it is not exactly as described. That helped, because by the time the sales person saw me the car was already sold

I also had a pretty similar incident when I bought the beemer in January. I called Peugeot Tygervalley on the Friday afternoon to inquire about the advertisement I saw on autotrader (so the guy didn't see me). Told me to come the next morning and ask for John (not his real name, because I can't remember his real name). I came in the next morning and John was busy trying to sell a Peugeot to an older man (although it was pretty obvious the older man was just browsing). Me with my stubbly beard was overlooped, or that was my experience. Then Mark (real name this time) saw me hovering round the BMW, came over and made the sale.

I found afterwards that there was some unhappiness between the salespeople because Mark was supposed to go on leave that day and the other guy felt it was his deal based on the phone call of the previous day. I told them I don't care whose deal it is, John was busy at the time so Mark helped me out, I didn't see anything wrong with it, and in the end I just want to buy the car.

I did find out a little later that the spare tyre was flat and had a nail in it, so like all my dealership experiences, it turns out that when you buy from a dealer, there is usually something that is hidden from you or not properly checked (either intentionally or not), and when you buy out of hand when you EXPECT things to be hidden from you, you often find the best buys.