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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
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30hp gains? Possible?
H&S
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-e/bmw-e46-m3-343ps-365nm.html
Thorney:
I know it's not an E46, but with chip and zorst these oaks are gaining 55hp on the wheels with a V8! Dam I guess it's not just us seeing these gains. I am shattered!
Powerchip + Ram air scoops:
GIAC also claim 23 wheel hp gain for the E46 M3. That's just a quick search on the net for E46 M3 gains.
So I guess the moral of the story is don't believe anyone that says 1kw is the max gain. Open your mind and see that there is life beyond your street where others can do things your local hero's cannot do. Especially if they are buying files from overseas. Then they will not gain what we gain, as we are logging and custom-tuning the cars live.
We have gained between 20-30whp with Ary, Rowen, M3 SMG, Craig on ODR's dyno, Dan's M coupe on ODR's dyno, and too many more to mention. The show will go on. I think overseas guys should buy files from us if they want gains. Don't go posting overseas gains as gospel.
H&S
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-e/bmw-e46-m3-343ps-365nm.html
Thorney:
I know it's not an E46, but with chip and zorst these oaks are gaining 55hp on the wheels with a V8! Dam I guess it's not just us seeing these gains. I am shattered!
Powerchip + Ram air scoops:
GIAC also claim 23 wheel hp gain for the E46 M3. That's just a quick search on the net for E46 M3 gains.
So I guess the moral of the story is don't believe anyone that says 1kw is the max gain. Open your mind and see that there is life beyond your street where others can do things your local hero's cannot do. Especially if they are buying files from overseas. Then they will not gain what we gain, as we are logging and custom-tuning the cars live.
We have gained between 20-30whp with Ary, Rowen, M3 SMG, Craig on ODR's dyno, Dan's M coupe on ODR's dyno, and too many more to mention. The show will go on. I think overseas guys should buy files from us if they want gains. Don't go posting overseas gains as gospel.
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anile8-zn
Guest
eish once again u posting gains about hardware and sw.
and perhaps some of these so called gains fall into the bracket that steve mentioned in his article.
@bio yes it does = more power but its not a 1 to 1 gain
and perhaps some of these so called gains fall into the bracket that steve mentioned in his article.
@bio yes it does = more power but its not a 1 to 1 gain
anile8-zn said:
No the 1st one is software only. 30hp gain. Comments please.
And, of course, we did it many times. Did it yesterday as actually.
M
Mike1
Guest
God you are stupid Anile.
I enjoy these threads cos I take pride in seeing people and their companies do well.
You however are highly entertaining. Thank you for adding banter to this thread.
I enjoy these threads cos I take pride in seeing people and their companies do well.
You however are highly entertaining. Thank you for adding banter to this thread.
STREETRACER
Active member
Sherwin@Xcede said:
Sherwin i no we had our differences and some healthy debates chip vs software.. but that is how i and everyone else learns..
I dont want to get involved in this debate.. i have to many things to mention about high octanes and high altitudes and why I agree that M's needs to be remapped here in S.A..
But there are plenty of ways to cheat on a dyno! i can assure every one on this site that Xcede doesnt cheat coz they make around the same claimed figures on our dyno!
2 ways to cheat on a dyno.. 1. do a run with an closed bonnet and no fan.. and after chip do a run with an open bonnet and with the fan.. 99% of tuners does that but the 2nd way is a proper way to cheat.. petrol cars are dyno'ed on a 6000 inertia and diesels on 5600.. changing that figures will make scary differences on the reading! i can make a 1.3 carburator golf make 500hp ... My 2c..
tashen
Member
It seems you forgot to run the spell check or grammar check on your posts... Classic:clap: OWNED! See Below
Dont be so quick to look down others like you did with Z3Coupe! Check your own spelling 1st
anile8-zn said:
Wait Wait I'm almost done! I couldnt resist this one. this one below is soooo you Anele! Ripperz! Lol
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anile8-zn
Guest
how are a real winner.
@sherwin , so your company and the the first one in your post are the only ones getting that power!!!
damn guess we should call guiness
its not about cheating the dyno boet , the article is talking about changing the readings for the temp sensors going to the ecu.
@ mike , great to see that when u presented with facts ie: dinan and giac testing , your best response is "i am stupid"
wonderful seems u have nothing constructive to add, as this is my thread not an exede one.
@sherwin , so your company and the the first one in your post are the only ones getting that power!!!
damn guess we should call guiness
its not about cheating the dyno boet , the article is talking about changing the readings for the temp sensors going to the ecu.
@ mike , great to see that when u presented with facts ie: dinan and giac testing , your best response is "i am stupid"
wonderful seems u have nothing constructive to add, as this is my thread not an exede one.
STREETRACER said:
Nic_s
///Member
OK wait... Let me see if I got this right.
From what I can gather in this thread, it seems there are tuners (Don't care for who or where they are) that claim huge gains (e.g 20bhp - 30bhp) with a simply tune on the dyno with a bone stock M (Bone stock means no aftermarket exhaust, software, or decat), but the link to the article posted in the first post kinda disproves such claims?
If I understand this correct then the dyno sheets posted are pointless as they feature vehicles that are not bone stock.
If I misunderstand, please explain.
PS
No tuners were specifically mentioned or targeted in the Opening Post. Thus it is actually a valid point to discuss, but some have felt the need for calling and making this personal. Keep it clean.
From what I can gather in this thread, it seems there are tuners (Don't care for who or where they are) that claim huge gains (e.g 20bhp - 30bhp) with a simply tune on the dyno with a bone stock M (Bone stock means no aftermarket exhaust, software, or decat), but the link to the article posted in the first post kinda disproves such claims?
If I understand this correct then the dyno sheets posted are pointless as they feature vehicles that are not bone stock.
If I misunderstand, please explain.
PS
No tuners were specifically mentioned or targeted in the Opening Post. Thus it is actually a valid point to discuss, but some have felt the need for calling and making this personal. Keep it clean.
M3 racer, there is no settings on this dyno. And the before and after runs were done with the bonnet open. In fact all the runs are done with the bonnet open. And of course the fan has to be on. The fan is on for all runs. The car overheats without the fan. WTF? Ary was the fan man, switching it off and on.
The point is the car gained 24 hp. It really did. Anal, what's this setting for the temp sensors to the ECU or what. Gimme some more info. Sounds like a really dumb idea and may lose power or even break the engine. Does Dinan do it. Post a link or something I want to read about it.
I posted links to European tuners claiming 30hp gains with s/w only. H&S being one. GIAC claim 24 wheel hp, s/w only on the S54, as do Powerchip.
Maybe they all lying, I don't know. But that's what they claiming.
And now I will also join them & claim it. And I am not lying.
The point is the car gained 24 hp. It really did. Anal, what's this setting for the temp sensors to the ECU or what. Gimme some more info. Sounds like a really dumb idea and may lose power or even break the engine. Does Dinan do it. Post a link or something I want to read about it.
Nic_s said:
I posted links to European tuners claiming 30hp gains with s/w only. H&S being one. GIAC claim 24 wheel hp, s/w only on the S54, as do Powerchip.
Maybe they all lying, I don't know. But that's what they claiming.
And now I will also join them & claim it. And I am not lying.
A
anile8-zn
Guest
if u didnt take the time to read the article then u shouldnt bother posting.
@nic_s u are 100 percent correct , the members of exede see fit to destroy this thread with name calling.
seems discussion and reserach other than their own is not welcome!
@sherwin , what has your gain got to do with this thread ?
who asked you or posed a validation to exede?
so why do you feel the need to defend yourself ?
http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=491
here is a link to the giac site
they claim from 3-25 hp WHEN COUPLED WITH THEIR COMPLETE INTAKE
they have not claimed anything for sw alone on their site
so one would guess 3bhp to be thr gain with the intake
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/interact/datasheets/datasheets_three.asp
here is a link to the POWERCHIP site
they specify there sw cannot work with normal 95 unleaded , the requirements for a tune are that you use 98 UNLEADED.
as such the gains they quote are for tuning for a grade of fuel we cant get at the pumps here.
so its irrelevant to this discussion.
which leaves only exede and some random european tuner that claim 30bhp from sw only.
as per the source material provided and refferences from other users
1.gains are to be had from higher octane fuel (real gains)-powerchip
2.altering temp settings back to stock on dyno (fake gains)-dodgy tuners
3.gains of 20hp are possible when hardware is added as in intake and exhaust/decat.(giac and dinan)
by in large gains from sw only are not widely seen to be more than 10bhp ?
@nic_s u are 100 percent correct , the members of exede see fit to destroy this thread with name calling.
seems discussion and reserach other than their own is not welcome!
@sherwin , what has your gain got to do with this thread ?
who asked you or posed a validation to exede?
so why do you feel the need to defend yourself ?
http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=491
here is a link to the giac site
they claim from 3-25 hp WHEN COUPLED WITH THEIR COMPLETE INTAKE
they have not claimed anything for sw alone on their site
so one would guess 3bhp to be thr gain with the intake
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/interact/datasheets/datasheets_three.asp
here is a link to the POWERCHIP site
they specify there sw cannot work with normal 95 unleaded , the requirements for a tune are that you use 98 UNLEADED.
as such the gains they quote are for tuning for a grade of fuel we cant get at the pumps here.
so its irrelevant to this discussion.
which leaves only exede and some random european tuner that claim 30bhp from sw only.
as per the source material provided and refferences from other users
1.gains are to be had from higher octane fuel (real gains)-powerchip
2.altering temp settings back to stock on dyno (fake gains)-dodgy tuners
3.gains of 20hp are possible when hardware is added as in intake and exhaust/decat.(giac and dinan)
by in large gains from sw only are not widely seen to be more than 10bhp ?
Nic_s
///Member
Sherwin@Xcede said:
Not said you were lying. Nor did I say the claims made on the dyno sheets posts were lies. I merely pointed out that they are not valid because the vehicles are not bone stock.
Lets get back on topic which is to discuss the huge gains claimed by some with a simple tune on a bone stock M (Vehicles with a chip or aftermarket exhaust are not bone stock) and the articles that disproves such claims. :thumb:
A
anile8-zn
Guest
@sherwin , the 30bhp claim from h&s is on the flywheel rated on 98 unleaded.
so it has no bearing on this discussion.
i think your initial claim was 24kw atw on a stock standard e46 m3 on 95 unleaded.
seems from the sources u quoted and the sources i have quoted , exede is the only company in the world that can make 24wkw on a bone stock m3 on 95 unleaded.
that is very impressive.
so it has no bearing on this discussion.
i think your initial claim was 24kw atw on a stock standard e46 m3 on 95 unleaded.
seems from the sources u quoted and the sources i have quoted , exede is the only company in the world that can make 24wkw on a bone stock m3 on 95 unleaded.
that is very impressive.
anile8-zn said:
GIAC claim over 20hp with software only. They claim 30hp with intake. If you mail them and ask them for the gains without the intake they will reply with over 20hp. Mail them & see for yourself.
We ate gaining over 20hp with software only. On uncorrected dyno's so there are not temp settings to enter. And with no hardware. I am no talking about Ary's car. We have done many, including the CSL that gained 26hp.
It is possible. How do I know? Because it has been done. You can search the internet far & wide it won't make a difference. Because here in the Southern tip of of africa it has been done many times. And GIAC & H&S also claim they can do it.
Sometimes in life you can google for a theoretical answer & those people on the ground actually doing it can prive you wrong.
We did gain 24hp with Ary's car. All it had was a decatt. But the decatt was on the car from the start. So now, we didn't gain 24hp or what? Does the fact that he had a decatt negate the gain.
Whether he had a decatt or not, the car gained 24whp. Whether the decatt lends itself to better gains is immaterial, it gains 24hp. And We have done cars with catts tha gain 24hp.
Oscar, I have a wager for you. I want to do this today on this forum now. R10 000 bet. I will take a car with stock catts and gain 20hp on an uncorrected dyno. Then you can send the graph overseas for analysis.
Do you agree to the bet?
anile8-zn said:
No. I made no claim about specific numbers. I said we can gain 20hp+ on an E46 M3 consistently. Some cars will gain more, some less. And I said pump fuel. The pump fuel in Europe is 98RON. So H&S have gained 30kw on the fly with pump fuel.
GIAC claim 24hp on the wheels with pump fuel, s/w only. But why do you care what overseas people say? What does that matter. The BMW V10 record here is here in SA. They can't match the 11.6. Who cares what they say, we are in SA.
A
anile8-zn
Guest
why dont u start your own exede thread.
this thread is discussing the dinan white paper.
as to your bet , i have mentioned that on a dyno the gain can be simulated by adusting certain temperature maps.
a dyno graph will of course bear this out.
the only way to verify this is not the case , is to provide source files to verify those temperature settings have not been changed.
decat is a mod , which does not factor into this discussion about a factory stock m3
this thread is discussing the dinan white paper.
as to your bet , i have mentioned that on a dyno the gain can be simulated by adusting certain temperature maps.
a dyno graph will of course bear this out.
the only way to verify this is not the case , is to provide source files to verify those temperature settings have not been changed.
decat is a mod , which does not factor into this discussion about a factory stock m3
Nic_s said:
BTW, just a quick point. Articles on the internet aren't gospel. I can write an article today & host it on our website & it will be picked up by the internet search engines & become a "article"
Steve Dinan wrote an article about power pulleys & how dangerous they are and how they don't work. Now dinan have pulleys on their price list & claim no danger & good gains. So having an article on the internet doesn't lend credence to any argument.
I think tonight I will write an article & put it on our blog about the gains we are getting with the S54. Maybe it will become fact & go onto Wikipedia. What you rate?
anile8-zn said:
Oscar, this is the 2nd time I am asking you for this. What are you talking about. Are you talking about the IAT temp compensation tables in the ECU, or are you talking about a dyno setting? The dyno we are using HAS NO TEMPERATURE SETTINGS. Can you not understand that? It is an uncorrected dyno!
I know you googled some sh1t some internet expert posted & are now churning it out, so please post a link. You are making no sense. Please explain how you get this gain.
anile8-zn said:
OSCAR, I JUST WENT THROUGH MY POSTS AND I CLAIMED I CAN GAIN OVER 20HP ON AN S54 WITH SOFTWARE. I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER IT HAD DECATT OR NOT. YOU SAID THAT. SO PAY ME MY R10K NOW. I GAINED OVER 20HP ON MANY S54'S WITH OR WITHOUT CATTS.
A
anile8-zn
Guest
i am talking about the tables in the ecu .
the only way to disprove my theory is to provide your tuned file to an independant source .
also the dimpsort tool allows easy access to all paramters in the ecu.
its a tool used all over the world , so there is little new information to be garnered from adjusting the parameters exposed to the tuner.
it has been done by the 1000 peolpe before u who bought the tool
if u bother to read dinans paper , who will understand what i am talking about.
tuning the mixtures back to stock on the dyno will give the impression of "gains'
if u feel this doesnt apply to you , why do u keep defending yourself and posting on my thread?
the only way to disprove my theory is to provide your tuned file to an independant source .
also the dimpsort tool allows easy access to all paramters in the ecu.
its a tool used all over the world , so there is little new information to be garnered from adjusting the parameters exposed to the tuner.
it has been done by the 1000 peolpe before u who bought the tool
if u bother to read dinans paper , who will understand what i am talking about.
tuning the mixtures back to stock on the dyno will give the impression of "gains'
if u feel this doesnt apply to you , why do u keep defending yourself and posting on my thread?
anile8-zn said:
For the same reason you post on our threads like a leech. The owners of the cars are happy, why do you get involved in our business?
Ok so let's tackle your story. You are saying there are some parameters you can change in ECU which give more power on the dyno? You kidding me right? That's the whole point of tuning. To change parameters in the ECU to get more power. If it shows a gain on the dyno, then it's a gain.
Ary went to the drags & ran some cars including s heavily modded M3 & he won convincingly. So these ECU tricks are working on the road as well. Must be a conspiracy these hidden tricks in the ECU to fool the dyno.
A
anile8-zn
Guest
Eish u are a bright one.
Now your story is changing to include a decat.
Nice next it will include 98 octane.
So please u can't gain 20hp without a decat as per your admission , as such dinan is correct ?
As this is what we are discussing here
once again if u feel this doesn't apply to you , don't post a reply .
Since u are a tuning god shouldn't u be out tuning a veyron or something
Now your story is changing to include a decat.
Nice next it will include 98 octane.
So please u can't gain 20hp without a decat as per your admission , as such dinan is correct ?
As this is what we are discussing here
once again if u feel this doesn't apply to you , don't post a reply .
Since u are a tuning god shouldn't u be out tuning a veyron or something
anile8-zn said:
Ok a tool is to read & write to the ECU. We have 3 tools. It is a dumb device.
The core of the "tune" is done on your PC or laptop when you open the map & adjust the parameters. That sofwtare is the key to what you can or can't do within the map. We have 3 tuning software packages, including WinOLS. So we can look at a map in full EPROM view and change whatever we want. Everything is exposed to us, including whatever we find outside the normal areas.
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