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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
discussion State of SA and Emigration
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
Pretty sure I'll be leaving in the next 2 years for Europe (Netherlands/Switzerland).
I like how you put it nicely, a beautiful country but not a great nor good one.
Childless and single so move a lot easier for me. Would leave two siblings this side and elderly parents but yeah..
I like how you put it nicely, a beautiful country but not a great nor good one.
Childless and single so move a lot easier for me. Would leave two siblings this side and elderly parents but yeah..
We've never really spoken about it, but I doubt my wife and I would leave (even though her medical qualifications are highly sought after, especially in the Middle East). My mum lives with us, so also have to look after her. My plan is just to give my daughter the best education possible, so that she can leave. Hopefully she does well overseas and my wife and I can join her one day.
Will have to see how WFH changes this, but doubt we can afford to live overseas on SA salary.
Will have to see how WFH changes this, but doubt we can afford to live overseas on SA salary.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
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TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
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Yup...can't even afford to 'down scale', cause an apartment the size of my patio costs nearly as much as what I bought my house for some years back. As parents, we will just have to continue to sacrifice to give our kids the best chance. I was thinking of selling my investment property, but will now hold on to it, in case we ever need to down scale.
GoCart
///Member
Correct, introduce devaluation of the currency, hyper inflation, further decay to infrastructure... things look rather concerning.
The best way, but not possible for many, sadly.
Benji
Well-known member
Interesting to see this thread here, Me and my partner just decided today that we are leaving SA soon. Now the planning starts, but we are hoping to settle in the south of Europe where the climate is a bit more agreeable. We luckily both have European passports, so that isnt an issue for us. I'll be really sad to lose the quality of life we have here and all my project cars. Ive always hoped that the country could still be turned around, now I very much doubt it
LOW BOOST
Member
Part of the job creators in SA.
Currently 2am reading this thread with a loaded firearm and spare mags in between my legs at the gate of our security estate trying to help prevent a breach.
We have around 50 guys with us and the situation is still tense.
We have one security vehicle with us and the others are trying to secure the perimeter.
We are extremely lucky to even have this.
Although we still dont feel safe.
Currently there's drive bys just randomly spraying at communities
After setting this platform,
I love this country so much, but it's the first time this morning my wife and I had this the conversation about leaving.
We worked so hard making something of our lives from scratch.
But we have a 15month old to think of now.
We have family in Australia, we will have to seriously consider the move after this.
Sent from my SM-A307FN using Tapatalk
Currently 2am reading this thread with a loaded firearm and spare mags in between my legs at the gate of our security estate trying to help prevent a breach.
We have around 50 guys with us and the situation is still tense.
We have one security vehicle with us and the others are trying to secure the perimeter.
We are extremely lucky to even have this.
Although we still dont feel safe.
Currently there's drive bys just randomly spraying at communities
After setting this platform,
I love this country so much, but it's the first time this morning my wife and I had this the conversation about leaving.
We worked so hard making something of our lives from scratch.
But we have a 15month old to think of now.
We have family in Australia, we will have to seriously consider the move after this.
Sent from my SM-A307FN using Tapatalk
jayaynikkal
Member
Intense....
TBP88
Well-known member
For the first time I have similar fears... 
I think I'm at a place in my career and have sufficient qualifications that I could well be considered for international posts (probably at a similar salary but a slightly lower level than what I'm at right now). It does, unfortunately, have to be a real consideration.
I don't have the funding to get an international passport via the investment route (and a lot of the juicier passports are being closed off for this, or the bars are being heightened to a ludicrous degree - talking 1m EUR levels of investment needed). So realistically I'd need a sponsored job. Fortunately it's just myself and my partner, but then they'd also need to get a job as we're unmarried so bringing them with wouldn't be trivial unless they also found employ.
All not easy to think through but the scenes of rioting/looting, violence (from looters), counter violence (against looters) and racial violence have all left us feeling a bit helpless. It also brings out the reality that while we live relatively comfortable middle class lives (well, I think I do anyway), the reality for the vast numbers of South African's is abjection. I can see it in CPT CBD, I've spent the last 8 years living in the CBD, first in Gardens and now in Greenpoint. And both sides of the CBD have seen dramatic increases in homelessness. It used to be that in winter the homeless in the CBD would vacate as it got to cold. but now it's permanent, people have nowhere to go. Rough sleeping in tents and makeshift shelters is endemic - Provincial, city and national government has failed thousands of people here in CPT to the point where they have no choice but to live on the streets.
I digress, but until we have solid growth and real economic opportunity in SA (for everyone), these sorts of flareups will become a regular reality.
I think I'm at a place in my career and have sufficient qualifications that I could well be considered for international posts (probably at a similar salary but a slightly lower level than what I'm at right now). It does, unfortunately, have to be a real consideration.I don't have the funding to get an international passport via the investment route (and a lot of the juicier passports are being closed off for this, or the bars are being heightened to a ludicrous degree - talking 1m EUR levels of investment needed). So realistically I'd need a sponsored job. Fortunately it's just myself and my partner, but then they'd also need to get a job as we're unmarried so bringing them with wouldn't be trivial unless they also found employ.
All not easy to think through but the scenes of rioting/looting, violence (from looters), counter violence (against looters) and racial violence have all left us feeling a bit helpless. It also brings out the reality that while we live relatively comfortable middle class lives (well, I think I do anyway), the reality for the vast numbers of South African's is abjection. I can see it in CPT CBD, I've spent the last 8 years living in the CBD, first in Gardens and now in Greenpoint. And both sides of the CBD have seen dramatic increases in homelessness. It used to be that in winter the homeless in the CBD would vacate as it got to cold. but now it's permanent, people have nowhere to go. Rough sleeping in tents and makeshift shelters is endemic - Provincial, city and national government has failed thousands of people here in CPT to the point where they have no choice but to live on the streets.
I digress, but until we have solid growth and real economic opportunity in SA (for everyone), these sorts of flareups will become a regular reality.
MR_Y
Well-known member
Good topic.
My family have been doomsday prepping since 1993, when Chris Hani died. I have always been told since then to study and leave this country...
I was thinking of leaving back in 2015.
But, after working out the sums and talking to many people who have emigrated (and a few who have returned back to SA), I decided to not emigrate for these reasons:
1. Cost of living is way too high in most First World countries, unless you land a well-paying job (NOT easy, especially when you will be seen as a foreigner)
2. Some countries (like those in UAE) offer great salaries and cost of living is not too bad, BUT the cultural/social differences and practices are vast and will not suit everyone.
3. In my particular line of work, 99% of my counterparts in Europe/US/Australia hold at least 1 PhD in a STEM subject. I don't hold a PhD, so straightaway I am on the back foot and I am not keen on studying towards a PhD to advance my career. In SA (and most developing countries), I can progress based on experience instead of academic theory.
I was thinking of relocating to KZN midlands earlier this year, but my work situation changed and I need to be relatively close to JHB. However, I want to live far away from the city centre and the suburbs - hence, my aim to go far south.
As mentioned earlier, my family have been doomsday prepping since 1993. They own a farm and a few guns in KZN and they live off grid. I was taught to always expect the worst and prepare for that (I guess maybe that is why I work in Risk). So, I expected the crap to hit the fan - and it did these past few days. However, I also expect us (as a nation) to rise up and overcome this with time. I clearly remember pre-1994 when SA last blew up and we managed to recover and grow.
Imagine, with all the crap that we have in SA, BMW, Merc, VW, Ford, Nissan and Toyota still make cars here and sell them overseas. The day any of those big players leave SA (remembering that they stayed in SA during both Apartheid and post-1994), that is the day that I will seriously consider packing up (maybe for the UAE...)
My family have been doomsday prepping since 1993, when Chris Hani died. I have always been told since then to study and leave this country...
I was thinking of leaving back in 2015.
But, after working out the sums and talking to many people who have emigrated (and a few who have returned back to SA), I decided to not emigrate for these reasons:
1. Cost of living is way too high in most First World countries, unless you land a well-paying job (NOT easy, especially when you will be seen as a foreigner)
2. Some countries (like those in UAE) offer great salaries and cost of living is not too bad, BUT the cultural/social differences and practices are vast and will not suit everyone.
3. In my particular line of work, 99% of my counterparts in Europe/US/Australia hold at least 1 PhD in a STEM subject. I don't hold a PhD, so straightaway I am on the back foot and I am not keen on studying towards a PhD to advance my career. In SA (and most developing countries), I can progress based on experience instead of academic theory.
I was thinking of relocating to KZN midlands earlier this year, but my work situation changed and I need to be relatively close to JHB. However, I want to live far away from the city centre and the suburbs - hence, my aim to go far south.
As mentioned earlier, my family have been doomsday prepping since 1993. They own a farm and a few guns in KZN and they live off grid. I was taught to always expect the worst and prepare for that (I guess maybe that is why I work in Risk). So, I expected the crap to hit the fan - and it did these past few days. However, I also expect us (as a nation) to rise up and overcome this with time. I clearly remember pre-1994 when SA last blew up and we managed to recover and grow.
Imagine, with all the crap that we have in SA, BMW, Merc, VW, Ford, Nissan and Toyota still make cars here and sell them overseas. The day any of those big players leave SA (remembering that they stayed in SA during both Apartheid and post-1994), that is the day that I will seriously consider packing up (maybe for the UAE...)
Would also love to hear some insights into this…
Always hear positive things about Botswana and similarly with Namibia.
We need to always be mindful Africa as whole, has such dire issue with poverty and inequality that it will never be solved in our generations… sad indeed
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jayaynikkal
Member
I genuinely feel like SA is going to bounce back. It will take time but I've just got this feeling that things are going to change for the good.
tman
Well-known member
I have Namibian family living in Nam.
If you are not a citizen its really hard to get in. They have a very small economy so most jobs are allocated to locals.
The economy is basically the size of Bloemfontein's economy, also very similar, ie: Afrikaans is widely spoken, most folk tend to drive bakkies and most lifestyles and communities centered around farming and wildlife.
Property prices are sky high, govt is pretty much on par with the ANC, food is expensive because most is imported from SA.
Very few people and large open spaces, slow land relaxed lifestyle, violent crime is very low. They do have petty crime tho.
If you can work remotely and can obtain a visa or ancestral citizenship its an attractive option. If you have to look for a job and rely on a critical skills visa - goodluck
henriZA
Active member
Botswana has an excellent credit rating, solid institutions, low crime rate and of course awesome wildlife. Definitely on my list if the entire SA goes belly up, but for now I am hoping that we can survive the storm. Its not gonna come without massive repercussions.
My main reason for sticking it out here is family. I feel like if you migrate to Canada or UK or wherever you almost have to start building an entire new social circle in a new environment as an outsider.
L~C~G
Active member
Like so many entrepreneurs I am well skilled but have no formal qualifications. Financially I cannot really go anywhere. I also have my 64 year old mom in law living with us, so that is a huge problem to move anywhere.
While safety here is always a concern, I am well armed and my house/business is well insured and very hard to breach.
My biggest concern here though has always been the risk of our devaluing currency/hyperinflation/prescribed assets etc. You could literally lose your entire life savings before you even realise it. Not to mention how we continue to get poorer every single day on a global scale.
About a year ago I started sending every spare cent I have into a dollar-based account through Discovery. I didn't have any savings in an RA so I was able to take all of my savings out. Just having the bulk of my wealth in dollars has made this shit a little less frightening.
Even if it goes entirely South and the currency is literally wiped out like Zim, I can draw interest from the funds in dollars and buy essentials to keep my family safe and fed. You don't want to work your entire life and get to your golden years to discover it's all gone or continue to go down with this ship
If memory serves, in some cases you are able to move your RA into a dollar account which certainly would give a bit of security in the current climate. I have also set up a recurring dollar endowment that moves a monthly amount across.
I have built silent generator enclosures with changeover switches at my house and factory, so load-shedding does not impact me as much. You can do a lot to be more comfortable here if you have to stay..........but let your money immigrate at least!!!
The funds I sent over returned just over 15% in the last year on the Dollar value. Show me a local investment doing that, and that excludes the gains made in Rand terms against the Dollar.
When I am in a position to, I plan on re-bonding my house to its full market value and sending that money out as well. I would rather pay off that debt in rands while earning interest in dollars. That also offers some protection against the threat to our property rights currently on the cards. Then its the banks problem. If things settle down i can always bring the money back here and settle my bond.
While safety here is always a concern, I am well armed and my house/business is well insured and very hard to breach.
My biggest concern here though has always been the risk of our devaluing currency/hyperinflation/prescribed assets etc. You could literally lose your entire life savings before you even realise it. Not to mention how we continue to get poorer every single day on a global scale.
About a year ago I started sending every spare cent I have into a dollar-based account through Discovery. I didn't have any savings in an RA so I was able to take all of my savings out. Just having the bulk of my wealth in dollars has made this shit a little less frightening.
Even if it goes entirely South and the currency is literally wiped out like Zim, I can draw interest from the funds in dollars and buy essentials to keep my family safe and fed. You don't want to work your entire life and get to your golden years to discover it's all gone or continue to go down with this ship
If memory serves, in some cases you are able to move your RA into a dollar account which certainly would give a bit of security in the current climate. I have also set up a recurring dollar endowment that moves a monthly amount across.
I have built silent generator enclosures with changeover switches at my house and factory, so load-shedding does not impact me as much. You can do a lot to be more comfortable here if you have to stay..........but let your money immigrate at least!!!
The funds I sent over returned just over 15% in the last year on the Dollar value. Show me a local investment doing that, and that excludes the gains made in Rand terms against the Dollar.
When I am in a position to, I plan on re-bonding my house to its full market value and sending that money out as well. I would rather pay off that debt in rands while earning interest in dollars. That also offers some protection against the threat to our property rights currently on the cards. Then its the banks problem. If things settle down i can always bring the money back here and settle my bond.
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