PETROL BOMBS FOUND AT WITS UNIVERSITY THIS MORNING

[Vader]

At what point does the proverbial light bulb come on...

It won't... Eskom :thinking:

Talk about hitting the nail on the head :thumb:

 

[Ofentse]

Chef for one to qualify for funding, then one should be able demonstrate the ability to pay. How will you repay banks if you do not work, and your father is paid R2500 in Marikana and your mother is a domestic worker earning R1500?

I went out and I made sure I could study. My parents did not help me. My friends/family did not help me. During studies I worked part time, over time and weekends to fund my needs, at a DVD store in Centurion. When my studies were completed, only then did I start paying off the capital of the student loan, which is the basis of a student loan. I still am paying it off. Having a poor family is no excuse to demand everything for free. I come from a poor family and I could still fund my own studies.

These students don't want to study. They want free education for a degree they don't want to earn because they feel they are entitled to it and won't listen to the option of part-time work because why must they? Their government will give it to them because their government said so... Apparently.

Not everyone is likely to tell a similar story Chef, you made a choice to get your education pursuing that avenue, and i respect that.

Truth of the matter is that we cannot reduce this issue to personal anecdotes, and simply assume that everyone should follow suit. The reality is that majority of the people in this country need help, and it should be provided.

We are all paying heavy taxes, and it will go a long way if our money is spent on more worthy causes by OUR government, particularly education.

But when will these people in need realize that OUR current government doesn't believe in spending money on worthy causes because they too busy shoving it into their own pockets.

Guess what the people in need will do, they will vote them in again and again and then protest their unhappiness when the same promises are not delivered on over and over again.

At what point does the proverbial light bulb come on...

I believe the needy people sent the strongest message to date since the dawn of democracy in the last local elections....

You don't just divorce your wife, I think you will try to see if you can fix things and hope that your wife will subsequently change, if not, well you start dating. I believe this is the dating phase for many in SA. If people like Msimanga and Mashaba behave like true wifey material, perhaps we can talk commitment :biglol:

Phela there is an old saying that you will never know what you have until its gone, so i am sure the needy people are taking their time. Jumping straight into another relationship is never easy, ask a battered wife, particularly if this abusive husband saved them from a man who was even more abusive and made them sleep in another room on their own, and also never told them that they are special... :roflol:

 

[Zound]

Success is not a constitutional right and therefore I don't believe Tertiary education should be a constitutional right. It is without a doubt an advantage to have a degree but it is not a guarantor of success. As a current student, I have participated in various "Vac work" opportunities and the main complaint from the HR departments is that a large proportion of graduates are exiting university with elaborate degrees but with no grasp of work ethic or practical application of theory.

There seems to be an ideology that by attending university and acquiring a degree that you are guaranteed of employment and success. This is simply not the case and is evidence of the pervasive culture of entitlement in our country. I strongly believe that a positive attitude, disciplined work ethic and a desire for personal growth through appropriate avenues is a far better guarantor of success. These attributes are certainly not exclusive nor requisite of a university education.

Ingrained cultural values play a large role in this discussion and while it may be a sensitive topic, it, in my opinion, is pinnacle to the cause and frustration of the current "Protestors".

The question I pose is who is accountable for the welfare and related success of the children you make? Is it the Government? Is it the Taxpayer? Is it your parents? Or is it you, the individual responsible for their creation.

If you have 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 27 children with the absolute and complete understanding that you cannot support them financially, then who is responsible for them continuing a life of poverty? The government who provided free condoms and birth control mechanisms? The taxpayer who did family planning?

This is an issue of confused core responsibility.

 

[Ofentse]

At what point does the proverbial light bulb come on...

It won't... Eskom :thinking:

hahaha...

 

[TurboLlew]

Free education should not, and must never be limited to primary schools and high schools in this country.

Education is the only essential tool that will empower historically disadvantaged groups. It will open doors for young people that are roaming the streets in rural areas, and help them to turn their lives around.

In my view, SA should have prioritised free education in all levels of learning institutions before anything else (including fee housing, water and electricity)

That way, SA will move away from being a state dependent nation to self sustaining nation. The need to empower the people of this country through education can only yield positive results for this country in a long run...

100% agree with you here. Tertiary education SHOULD be free to acquire (and then as done in countries like Australia, you pay back when you eventually work - logical right?)... We are pretending that no money is available when over 40% of many of our incomes are going into government coffers all the time... and we have stories upon stories of mismanagement... It is an absolute tragedy that we have not used the masses of tax collected to increase the future tax-payer base as well as encouraging excellence as opposed to mediocrity.

We have another major issue in that so many kids want to go to university and not FET/technikons etc. We have an issue with this absurd notion that everyone needs to be in a suit/tie/office job and fire off orders at workers when these guys eventually join the workforce and refuse to file, follow processes, learn new concepts, learn what the real world looks like vs. what they have learned which is usually virtually useless anyway... We have such an issue around this university obsession that we have had to rename technikons to 'universities of technology'.

These kids were doomed between grades 1 and 3. Whatever happened afterwards, they were never going to catch up easily. We are paying the price now - all of us - because we are paying for private education despite paying taxes since no quality public education exists, and on top of that we have nobody to hire - White, Indian, Coloured, Black - all equally unemployable AFTER degrees. Top grads are in HIGH demand. We are not living in a world where you have a job for life anymore either. The number of taxpayers is probably actually declining if you take unemployment and emigration into account...

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These students know exactly what they are doing and why. NSFAS is not free education but a loan.
A government committee has been set up to deal with their concerns, let’s see what they come up with…
Meanwhile, we can only hope that no lives will be lost in their cause, which i support 100%...

There are so many agendas being driven and parties that have latched onto this that the main cause is being lost in the noise in my opinion

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Free education should be for primary and high schools, especially the government funded ones.

Tertiary education is a privilege, not a right. If you want it free, make sure you excel so as to earn yourself a bursary.

Your point is valid but the devil's advocate in me has to say this. It is difficult to get a job when you only have matric and the best way to increase your chances of employment is to get tertiary education - but even that does not guarantee it. If tertiary education is a privilege then it means the poor cannot be uplifted because they are not privileged enough to afford tertiary education. They will perpetually be a victim of their circumstance. Having said that, there are funding methods for low income/poor people eg. NSFAS, low income focussed bursaries & scholarships; but these methods will never be enough to fund all the poor that are eligible for tertiary education. What do we do with those that fall through the cracks? What about those that get in to university and get financially excluded in the middle of their degree?

I do not support the violence at all. I feel there is merit in the fight for free tertiary education but it cannot be expected that the country should be able to afford it now, maybe in future under a different government but not with Nkandla still fresh in our memories.

We have shortages of boiler makers, welders, millwrights, fitters & turners, plumbers etc etc... There are FET colleges that enable those in these professions to create sustainable incomes and allow them to become masters of their own destiny. That is more than can be said for university grads in a flooded market with mass down-sizing of corporates etc. From my sample of 1 perspective, the failure doesn't stop at school and university - they start work as a grad, 50-60% get the biggest shock of their lives and 6 months in are on performance improvement plans (virtually unheard of for graduates before) and 12 months into their careers are unemployed (these are the ones that get jobs)... Who exactly painted this rosy picture of becoming an executive after a degree? At one of my prior companies we had a 80% drop off rate by month 6.

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Everyone just wants everything handed to them on a platter. And that's bull. Even in first world countries tertiary education is not free. If you want something enough. You'll work your ass off to make it happen.

In all honesty I see these protests now as a means to avoid exams and cause havoc. Lock all those bastards up and let the ones that actually care about their education finish their academic years off in peace.

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It is free if you pass as far as I know in countries like Australia and then you pay back a little bit when you start to work. That is a system I can get behind. Totally free is not going to be sustainable since it means 100% of the burden sits on the existing taxpayer base and there is no future consequence for the learner if they decide to take 10 years to complete a 3 year degree.

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The money is definitely available, but allocated to wrong causes...
I work in the telecoms sector and will tell you which money should rather be allocated to student tuition fees in this specific sector...

1. SA Connect Project: The government has allocated billions of Rands to this specific project to roll-out broadband, this is rather unnecessary given that the private sector is doing a sterling job to achieve this end. I mean, MTN will be spending 12billion Rands to roll-out infrastructure this year alone, why bother trying to compete with these operators? In any case, municipalities such as Tshwane are already working with companies like Neotel to connect low income earning communities via initiatives such as Project Isizwe. All the government has to do here is finalise and implement policies such Rapid Deployment and Local Loop Unbundling to foster competition and increase broadband penetration in this country.

2. ICASA: Time and time this entity has been sending money that was allocated to them back to Treasury because of apparent lack of capacity. Icasa can also generate its own money from license fees paid by operators and penalties imposed for non compliance, frankly the government has no business allocating huge amounts of money to this entity and should be spent elsewhere...

3. DTPS and DoC split: Here the government is spending double and unnecessary amounts of money for salaries in these two departments. You have the DTPS creating the so called spectrum policy in one hand, and DoC driving DTT Migration policy as an ecxample. Just one department is quiet capable of handling the telecoms sector. The splitting of the former DoC only created slow progress in this sector with ministers Faith and Siyabonga sometimes not knowing who should execute what...

4. Broadband Infraco: The less said about this entity the better, it has been relying on government hand-outs for years and for what? As indicated earlier, the likes of DFA, Vumatel, Neotel, Frogfoot, Mitsol, TT Telecoms are doing a commendable job connecting this country. They government should cut their losses, sell this entity and run...

I can go on to point out where money is wasted in other sectors, i am sure there is money sitting somewhere doing nothing that can be redirected to education...

AMEN