Odometer rollbacks

[PsyCLown]

Hey all,

So was speaking to a mechanic today and we got on the topic of used cars and that lead to how to how it is not uncommon to see used cars for sales which have had the odometer turned back - he specializes in VW and Audi and says its quite common and very easy to do and not that difficult to do on a BMW either.

So, I did a quick Google search to try and sate my curiosity and seems it can be done really easily...

So now my question is, are there any ways for someone to check and see whether a vehicle has actually had the mileage rolled back or not?

From speaking to him, he said the best way is to check with the dealer on when the last service was done and the mileage and compare that to the current date and mileage and see how plausible it is...

Wondering if someone on the forum perhaps has additional info, specifically for BMW's with regards to checking this?

 

[CA_130]

1. Google + "BMW tamper dot" = answer.

2. As far as I'm aware, the mileage is stored/written in a number of the modules in/on the car, so changing it on one place wouldn't be enough, as you'd need to overwrite or flash the entire vehicle, with specialty programs or hardware etc.

Simplest check, service history, only if it was done somewhere decent, otherwise the book means nothing, adding up the mileage and comparing it to the vehicle condition also helps (sticky steering wheel/door handles/rubber components), and inspecting wear items like the shocks and bearings relative to the driving condition.

TLDR a good diagnostic will tell you

 

[S1NGH 911]

Carly detects mileage tampering


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[PsyCLown]

I was under the impression the tamper dots can be coded away.

If Carly is able to detect tampering, I must look into it then. I have / had a cheapy OBD to Bluetooth or WiFi adapter somewhere.
May as well give that a try before purchasing their adapter.

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[ChrisPy]

This must be one of the most undercover ways of asking “how do I turn back my mileage without it being detected?” Ever. . Just kidding.

Carly can work with with cheaper dongles but it’s so buggy with connection issues etc. That you eventually give in and just buy theirs which then works seamlessly.

 

[PsyCLown]

This must be one of the most undercover ways of asking “how do I turn back my mileage without it being detected?” Ever. . Just kidding.

Carly can work with with cheaper dongles but it’s so buggy with connection issues etc. That you eventually give in and just buy theirs which then works seamlessly.

Haha, nah. Need to get an BMW first, lol.

Alright, so just buy their adapter then. Does anyone sell it locally or do I need to import?

I figure I might as well buy one as it'll be useful later on too most likely.

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[ChrisPy]

I just bought from their website. If your going to buy the app anyway then why not just give it a test first with a generic one if you already have one.

 

[leachieboy]

They are not wrong. Im an IT manager but in the motor industry and I can tell you a lot of dealers run back the mileage on their cars. Understated mileage is extremely common. Before purchasing any car the first check should be the last service by the dealer if the car has only driven 5000km in the last 2 years it’s a red flag.

I saw a 5 series before that Carly and through other OBD tools couldn’t identify the tamper. BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal. In the end they identified the tamper because the car was filled up using a petrol card and the reports showed it had been driven much more. The owner had been servicing the car at another place and trying to fool BMW into keeping the mplan active even though the car has exceeded 100000km


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[Nimz20]

They are not wrong. Im an IT manager but in the motor industry and I can tell you a lot of dealers run back the mileage on their cars. Understated mileage is extremely common. Before purchasing any car the first check should be the last service by the dealer if the car has only driven 5000km in the last 2 years it’s a red flag.

I saw a 5 series before that Carly and through other OBD tools couldn’t identify the tamper. BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal. In the end they identified the tamper because the car was filled up using a petrol card and the reports showed it had been driven much more. The owner had been servicing the car at another place and trying to fool BMW into keeping the mplan active even though the car has exceeded 100000km


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How did they get his petrol card reports

 

[PsyCLown]

They are not wrong. Im an IT manager but in the motor industry and I can tell you a lot of dealers run back the mileage on their cars. Understated mileage is extremely common. Before purchasing any car the first check should be the last service by the dealer if the car has only driven 5000km in the last 2 years it’s a red flag.

I saw a 5 series before that Carly and through other OBD tools couldn’t identify the tamper. BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal. In the end they identified the tamper because the car was filled up using a petrol card and the reports showed it had been driven much more. The owner had been servicing the car at another place and trying to fool BMW into keeping the mplan active even though the car has exceeded 100000km


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This is what concerns me, I believe Carly works by pulling the odo info from various components in the car. However if one were to flash each component and "sync" them up with regards to the odo reading then it wouldn't be flagged by Carly I assume.

I am certain there would be ways to fool the tamper detection methods and the guys who know what they're doing are most likely doing this and rolling back the mileage.

Any electronic system, provided it can be written to can be modified. The mileage will constantly be changing and therefore have new data written to it all the time.


So really, there isn't any fool proof way to tell whether the mileage has been tampered with... or the car in general?

I don't know enough about the devices used to change the odo reading, so not entirely sure how each of them work. So am left wondering whether it's really worth getting Carly simply to check the mileage or not.

Quite frustrating that these are issues we as consumers are left to deal with.

 

[individj]

"BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal"

they cant suspend it based on this...there could be so many reasons people dont drive a car often...even just having more than 1 or 2 cars

 

[leachieboy]

They are not wrong. Im an IT manager but in the motor industry and I can tell you a lot of dealers run back the mileage on their cars. Understated mileage is extremely common. Before purchasing any car the first check should be the last service by the dealer if the car has only driven 5000km in the last 2 years it’s a red flag.

I saw a 5 series before that Carly and through other OBD tools couldn’t identify the tamper. BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal. In the end they identified the tamper because the car was filled up using a petrol card and the reports showed it had been driven much more. The owner had been servicing the car at another place and trying to fool BMW into keeping the mplan active even though the car has exceeded 100000km


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How did they get his petrol card reports

I also wondered how they got the reports to be honest but that was how they nailed him in the end. Worst thing is our authorities do nothing about mileage tempering. So many cars end up at the fountain of youth.


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[leachieboy]

"BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal"

they cant suspend it based on this...there could be so many reasons people dont drive a car often...even just having more than 1 or 2 cars

BMW suspend the motorplan for any Enquiry into the vehicle. The car comes in for a regular service doing a pretty regular amount of mileage. All of a sudden the same driver comes in and mileage is ridiculously low. BMW enquires on the vehicle and while they investigating the service plan is suspended until either reinstated or cancelled. We had an X5 on our floor with 10000km on the clock. Motorplan was suspended as BMW believed the vehicle has been repaired at an unapproved center after they repossed the vehicle. Motorplan was suspended. A car dealer bought the vehicle off our floor and was able to prove the car had never even been in an accident.

From what I’ve seen BMW is quick to suspend motor plans if they suspect anything illicit


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[leachieboy]

They are not wrong. Im an IT manager but in the motor industry and I can tell you a lot of dealers run back the mileage on their cars. Understated mileage is extremely common. Before purchasing any car the first check should be the last service by the dealer if the car has only driven 5000km in the last 2 years it’s a red flag.

I saw a 5 series before that Carly and through other OBD tools couldn’t identify the tamper. BMW suspended the motorplan based on the distance the car had driven being extremely abnormal. In the end they identified the tamper because the car was filled up using a petrol card and the reports showed it had been driven much more. The owner had been servicing the car at another place and trying to fool BMW into keeping the mplan active even though the car has exceeded 100000km


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is what concerns me, I believe Carly works by pulling the odo info from various components in the car. However if one were to flash each component and "sync" them up with regards to the odo reading then it wouldn't be flagged by Carly I assume.

I am certain there would be ways to fool the tamper detection methods and the guys who know what they're doing are most likely doing this and rolling back the mileage.

Any electronic system, provided it can be written to can be modified. The mileage will constantly be changing and therefore have new data written to it all the time.


So really, there isn't any fool proof way to tell whether the mileage has been tampered with... or the car in general?

I don't know enough about the devices used to change the odo reading, so not entirely sure how each of them work. So am left wondering whether it's really worth getting Carly simply to check the mileage or not.

Quite frustrating that these are issues we as consumers are left to deal with.

I think it’s a good idea to use Carly and to Enquiry for last service information at BMW. The above scenario was quite unique generally vehicles I’ve seen with understated mileage are usually proven just using service history.


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