New M2 vs Cayman 718 GTS 4.0

[TurboLlew]

That middle bit>>>>*

At the end of the day what made up my mind was driving the GT4.

Sure they're not gonna give you a loaner and you do need to rely on reviews and videos to understand the usability and just also to get you thinking about the practicality of the car. But if you don't drive it, I really don't see how you can buy it.

At least BMW let me have a go in an M2, even if not the spec I wanted.

The other brands can genuinely take a hike. Perhaps there's a stream of people out there willing to shell out the thick end of R2m on stuff they have no first hand experience of, but I am not amongst that number.

I've been visiting the Porsche dealer probably for the last 7 or 8 years a few times a year, probably 6 or 7 times in the course of an average year. I (THUSFAR!) have no complaints about my treatment and tbh they do make an effort to make you buying a car feel pretty special.

Just reading that tracktime I'd be keen to see the GTS vs GT4 difference, should be worth a few seconds, but as I've banged on about: The GT4 is so far more capable a car than I am driver that the tracktimes are almost entirely immaterial. I bought a GT4 because it felt and looked amazing to me. I get a lot of guys pulling alongside for races and highway pulls but I'm pretty comfy just cruising at 130 and chilling. The car feels special at manageable speed in a way very similar to what the Z4M did.

At the end of the day what matters most is how you feel in the car and whether you can afford that vehicle. For some the small screen and low tech nature of the GT4 wouldn't work. For others it might be too disconnected compared to an older more mechanical car, for some a 2 door sportscar couldn't be more impractical etc. etc. etc. Cars are such a highly personal choice - and as car people we tend to forget that (1) we're happy to spend miles more on this hobby than the average joe and (2) we actually care more than the average joe.

99% of people don't know what FWD vs RWD is, let alone care about hydraulic steering. They just want good infotainment, the ability to overtake relatively easily, for the car to look (subjectively!) good and for it to be safe. Sure you can add some badge snobbery on top of that as well. But if a car meets the above - it's almost certainly destined to be a good seller if priced remotely decently.

I genuinely wonder what 'tech' people are referring when they talk about old cars being unbearable or dated vs new cars. If anything the newer tech dates cars HORRIBLY. The cars already have too much tech (and this is from a person who has been 'in tech' for decades). Is it the skin on the infotainment or the bigger display that barely integrates let alone has a good UI/UX? There are plenty of things that just get used once or twice as a party trick and then never again for most 'car people'. I feel this is another thing that has proliferated with the internet and people wanting to talk about new features all the time.

I have two cars that can park themselves and guess how many times we have used that feature? You cannot even trust the merc auto park feature TBH so what is the point using it when it takes longer and you have to do it yourself anyway? Would you keep an employee where you had to keep checking on them and ended up having to do the job yourself anyway?

Driver aids that are worthwhile (IMO) have been on cars for 10+ years already: the blindspot lights in the mirrors, 360 surround view and adaptive cruise. Even those are in the category of 'largely unnecessary'. My point here is that "new tech" is actually not of the sort that would make any 'old' car obsolete or unbearable to live with.

Semi-auto driving is the worst for me: Like can the car drive itself and be trusted to drive itself fully OR just let me drive myself. What is this nonsense of "ok so it can drive itself but you must also be on standby to drive in case it suddenly can't... "so that we can absolve ourselves of responsibility for installing half-baked tech on a 2 ton machine moving at 120km/h." I feel like this is another feature that people want to be able to talk about at the water cooler but will never really use themselves past a 'test' or two.

Even within that 99% of people who just want the good infotainment, they couldn't even tell you what it is they are actually missing outside of bluetooth streaming or carplay. Same way Andoid users (and again, I am and have been an android user of many things) cannot tell you why they want to be able to have root access to their devices and will likely NEVER have anything except the factory defaults on their devices.

On another note the experience you get in GP at Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, Daytona (Mclaren/Aston) (and yes BMW), is EXCELLENT each and every time whether you're window shopping or close to making a decision. It really makes a huge difference to your ownership experience and another of those factors where eg: someone in the US or UK may have terrible experiences yet here in SA the service you get is great (Case in point Ferrari/McLaren/Bentley).

 

[realtrevor]

I genuinely wonder what 'tech' people are referring when they talk about old cars being unbearable or dated vs new cars. If anything the newer tech dates cars HORRIBLY. The cars already have too much tech (and this is from a person who has been 'in tech' for decades). Is it the skin on the infotainment or the bigger display that barely integrates let alone has a good UI/UX? There are plenty of things that just get used once or twice as a party trick and then never again for most 'car people'. I feel this is another thing that has proliferated with the internet and people wanting to talk about new features all the time.

I have two cars that can park themselves and guess how many times we have used that feature? You cannot even trust the merc auto park feature TBH so what is the point using it when it takes longer and you have to do it yourself anyway? Would you keep an employee where you had to keep checking on them and ended up having to do the job yourself anyway?

Driver aids that are worthwhile (IMO) have been on cars for 10+ years already: the blindspot lights in the mirrors, 360 surround view and adaptive cruise. Even those are in the category of 'largely unnecessary'. My point here is that "new tech" is actually not of the sort that would make any 'old' car obsolete or unbearable to live with.

Semi-auto driving is the worst for me: Like can the car drive itself and be trusted to drive itself fully OR just let me drive myself. What is this nonsense of "ok so it can drive itself but you must also be on standby to drive in case it suddenly can't... "so that we can absolve ourselves of responsibility for installing half-baked tech on a 2 ton machine moving at 120km/h." I feel like this is another feature that people want to be able to talk about at the water cooler but will never really use themselves past a 'test' or two.

Even within that 99% of people who just want the good infotainment, they couldn't even tell you what it is they are actually missing outside of bluetooth streaming or carplay. Same way Andoid users (and again, I am and have been an android user of many things) cannot tell you why they want to be able to have root access to their devices and will likely NEVER have anything except the factory defaults on their devices.

On another note the experience you get in GP at Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, Daytona (Mclaren/Aston) (and yes BMW), is EXCELLENT each and every time whether you're window shopping or close to making a decision. It really makes a huge difference to your ownership experience and another of those factors where eg: someone in the US or UK may have terrible experiences yet here in SA the service you get is great (Case in point Ferrari/McLaren/Bentley).

True that, car Tech has gotten out of hand.
If I were to list car tech in an order of importance they can be;
1. Phone integration (for media and navigation), there's even better after market solutions for this.
2. LED Lights or Xenon
3. Heated Seats
4. Reverse Camera
5. Keyless Go
6. Electric Seats
7. Lane Departure and Blind Spot monitoring
8. Self Parking
9. Semi Autonomous Driving

Basically any car with the first 4 features is a good car in my books.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jld010]

I genuinely wonder what 'tech' people are referring when they talk about old cars being unbearable or dated vs new cars. If anything the newer tech dates cars HORRIBLY. The cars already have too much tech (and this is from a person who has been 'in tech' for decades). Is it the skin on the infotainment or the bigger display that barely integrates let alone has a good UI/UX? There are plenty of things that just get used once or twice as a party trick and then never again for most 'car people'. I feel this is another thing that has proliferated with the internet and people wanting to talk about new features all the time.

I have two cars that can park themselves and guess how many times we have used that feature? You cannot even trust the merc auto park feature TBH so what is the point using it when it takes longer and you have to do it yourself anyway? Would you keep an employee where you had to keep checking on them and ended up having to do the job yourself anyway?

Driver aids that are worthwhile (IMO) have been on cars for 10+ years already: the blindspot lights in the mirrors, 360 surround view and adaptive cruise. Even those are in the category of 'largely unnecessary'. My point here is that "new tech" is actually not of the sort that would make any 'old' car obsolete or unbearable to live with.

Semi-auto driving is the worst for me: Like can the car drive itself and be trusted to drive itself fully OR just let me drive myself. What is this nonsense of "ok so it can drive itself but you must also be on standby to drive in case it suddenly can't... "so that we can absolve ourselves of responsibility for installing half-baked tech on a 2 ton machine moving at 120km/h." I feel like this is another feature that people want to be able to talk about at the water cooler but will never really use themselves past a 'test' or two.

Even within that 99% of people who just want the good infotainment, they couldn't even tell you what it is they are actually missing outside of bluetooth streaming or carplay. Same way Andoid users (and again, I am and have been an android user of many things) cannot tell you why they want to be able to have root access to their devices and will likely NEVER have anything except the factory defaults on their devices.

On another note the experience you get in GP at Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, Daytona (Mclaren/Aston) (and yes BMW), is EXCELLENT each and every time whether you're window shopping or close to making a decision. It really makes a huge difference to your ownership experience and another of those factors where eg: someone in the US or UK may have terrible experiences yet here in SA the service you get is great (Case in point Ferrari/McLaren/Bentley).

You seem to be one of the chiefs on this forum..came across your M5 thread..fantastic car...I have a newly acquired F82..low miles..stock still under MP..2019. Where do I buy OEM BMW motor parts..Talking RIMS..kidney grills..suspension. Do I enquire directly with my BMW dealership..as simple as that?