Mental pricing for 118i

SMRTARSX1

New member
that_guy_Ettiene said:
Went to Zambesi BMW today to check this deal out...see attached pic.
Best deal I got was double the advertisement R4999..
d3d74b66895be64137c7849db9cfd126.jpg


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Higher mileage parameter than the deal advertised, no deposit listed on that offer (About R55k). The advertisement is for base model, with deposit and lowest mileage parameter.
 
SMRTARSX1 said:
that_guy_Ettiene said:
Went to Zambesi BMW today to check this deal out...see attached pic.
Best deal I got was double the advertisement R4999..
d3d74b66895be64137c7849db9cfd126.jpg


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Higher mileage parameter than the deal advertised, no deposit listed on that offer (About R55k). The advertisement is for base model, with deposit and lowest mileage parameter.
R50k dep wont make a R5k diff on installment, mileage as stated on the ad (60kkm)

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SMRTARSX1

New member
Then the F&I is Doing is wrong - We sold many MINIs on these deals and always got within a few hundred of the advertised monthly installment, Smart got me exactly the installment hey advertised with a higher spec car too.
 

cOlDFuSiOn

New member
Most of these 'deals' are just to get you into the dealership.. You take a test drive and then you start talking numbers..

You can't drive a 500k BMW for 5/6k a month. Just can't.
 

SMRTARSX1

New member
cOlDFuSiOn said:
Most of these 'deals' are just to get you into the dealership.. You take a test drive and then you start talking numbers..

You can't drive a 500k BMW for 5/6k a month. Just can't.

Consumer Protection Act (for all its worth) states that consumers can rightfully hold marketing campaigns and their value proposition against the dealer.

In order to market it, they must be able to do it - In reality more often than none, there is NEVER a genuinely entry level car available to make those figures a reality.

When I was at MINI we did a Cooper Deal like this 118i deal for R3k per month. The moment the car had ANY extras it was more expensive. That said in two weeks MINI ran out of Cooper stock. Physically ran out, at dealers and at the warehouse - Why? Cos the deal was still a good deal even if it came in a bit more expensive. The value proposition remained that you still had a GFV and a low risk transaction and a new car.
 

osiris

///Member
I don't have time to read through all of this but I have read a fair amount and there are some valid points, However the fact remains that buying a car on residual or a "lease deal' isn't a smart move.

Firstly your job is never guaranteed, I have been retrenched twice already and so have allot of members on this forum and they can attest to the risk involved in this type of lease deal. Everything is all fine and dandy till you no longer have an income and you have this "lease deal" to now deal with.

The other point and these things have been mentioned in several "residual deal threads on this forum already" is that by doing this you not only have a new car every 3 years you also REMAIN in debt FOREVER without ever owning a car. Not paying for a car monthly is a beautiful thing.

The other thing is that cars keep going up in price every year. a 318 is 530k this year but 3 years from now at our current rate of inflation could be 900k in 3 years time. so unless your salary has doubled your going to be pretty screwed in 3 years time trying to get the same caliber of car which lets be honest is pretty shit to begin with being a 3 cylinder lol of a car in the BMW world. so basically you will need to walk away from financing another BMW and go finance a ford ka or something when you could be selling your "paid off BMW" and buying another one with a massive deposit or just keeping it and looking after it and being debt free.

My two cents.
 

SMRTARSX1

New member
I don't have time to read through all of this but I have read a fair amount and there are some valid points, However the fact remains that buying a car on residual or a "lease deal' isn't a smart move.

Buying a car on Residual using traditional financing is not a smart move, a lease deal only uses a residual to reduce the monthly installment - Unlike traditional financing where irrespective of ANYTHING the residual remains payable, the residual becomes the GFV. The Residual is an entirely moot point even if you write the car off (gap cover is mandatory) - You lease a car because you want a new one in three years, if you lease a car with the intention to get rid of it in two years or keep it forever, then thats outright stupidity. Again, a lease deal is for a specific market.

My issue with a lease deal is that the market has not been educated on the pros and cons - And you have folks flocking to buy cars at better prices with no idea that its a lease deal or that they will struggle if they settle it short of the 36 months.

Firstly your job is never guaranteed, I have been retrenched twice already and so have allot of members on this forum and they can attest to the risk involved in this type of lease deal. Everything is all fine and dandy till you no longer have an income and you have this "lease deal" to now deal with.

1. You shouldn't be buying cars if you know your financial stability could be compromised. Again, traditional financing could end up with you trading the car in after 4 years, or paying it off and keeping it for 10 years, the lease is a fixed term rental agreement. You do it BECAUSE you have a up-front calculated risk and can make an informed decision.

Nobody has ever been retrenched and not known shit was coming months before it happened. If you sign yourself into a three year lease and you even slightly suspect you may not have a secure financial future, then whose fault is that really?

2. How is the lease deal any different to the traditional finance deal when you lose your income? You still have to settle the entirety of the vehicle purchase amount, the only variation will be that your lease deal will have a structured Amortisation Schedule because the costs are calculated up front which means you are likely to settle more of the asset value than the interest value.

If you cannot pay you cannot pay - The lease is called a lease but its still a finance agreement and as with any bank allows payment arrangements, handover and more. Further to that, if you had put the R53k deposit down (as required by the lease) on the car with a traditional finance agreement and it was repossessed you would lose that, with the lease, BMW pays the deposit, its not your risk.

The other point and these things have been mentioned in several "residual deal threads on this forum already" is that by doing this you not only have a new car every 3 years you also REMAIN in debt FOREVER without ever owning a car. Not paying for a car monthly is a beautiful thing.

Again, and I cannot explain this enough times.

Nando's offers three variations of their chicken. BMW offers three ways to buy their vehicles. Each variation suits a specific individual. Again, you are not obligated to purchase another BMW when you give this one back.

You can lease cars for most of your life and then buy a car cash with the savings, you can lease a car because you want a fixed risk agreement while you start a new business and from there buy the next car elsewhere (or at BMW) using traditional finance and keep it for the rest of your life.

Thats like saying if you eat a quarter pounder deluxe meal from McDonald's you will be fat forever.... No you will only be fat forever if you keep coming back for more - As a consumer you remain in complete control of your purchases and financial decisions. I might be happy to not own a car for the next 15 years but when I do want to own one, its my decision, nobody has locked you into a lifetime agreement.

The other thing is that cars keep going up in price every year. a 318 is 530k this year but 3 years from now at our current rate of inflation could be 900k in 3 years time. so unless your salary has doubled your going to be pretty screwed in 3 years time trying to get the same caliber of car which lets be honest is pretty shit to begin with being a 3 cylinder lol of a car in the BMW world. so basically you will need to walk away from financing another BMW and go finance a ford ka or something when you could be selling your "paid off BMW" and buying another one with a massive deposit or just keeping it and looking after it and being debt free.

Again, a moot point. Last year an iPhone cost R15k, now an iPhone X is R25k and we all detested and went on about how ridiculous this was and who would buy such a thing.... And guess what, Apple sold 16 million of the damn things in the first quarter of this year alone! Its their top selling phone for 2018.

The market dictates what sells and what doesn't. You neglected to talk about the countless 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and X Models that will hit the showroom floor with 60 000km at three years old with full service history, active motorplan of up to 4 years, prime-5 deals with 60% depreciation (thanks to the oke who leased it in the first place allowing the used car market to be regulated by the Manufacturer) that you can climb straight into if you cannot afford a newer model.

Its not completely black and white.
 

TurboLlew

Honorary ///Member
Lease deals FTW. I've gone on and on about these financial concepts in other threads, but in this case, let them roll on and kill the Residual market. The Residual buyers should ALL have been on leases in the first place if what they claim their rationale was for going that route, was in fact true. It is good for the consumer and good for the market.

You can buy a CP M4 on this deal for R13K/month (and bear in mind the returned leased i8 I was driving, the best installment was around R19900/month on an installment sale, 54 months, with a deposit and it had 35000km on it vs. a brand new CP M4 that actually cost more). When faced with that option and limited risk, many will grab it.

Why I am happy for the market is that we will have very good condition cars (to meet lease requirements) at decent prices (market flooding) in a few years time which will be good for the market overall (and they are able to deal a lot more with these cars these days too). There is a lot of meat in some of these cars (for some cars 200K+) to play with if you aren't trading in etc... The residual market constantly penalised the buyers leading to them trading down on one hand and on the other neglecting cars to the point they were actually worthless (try buying a GT-R under R900K or some of the cheap M cars/AMGs/RSes that are available). Leasing fixes this as it forces owners to have cars in good shape and motorplan covers the rest. In recent years I've been terrified of nobody buying new exciting cars because of the cost, hence limited used market. This is probably not going to happen after all if leasing takes off here.

Of course there will be guys burned very very badly (financially ruined even worse than in the days of residual) by this by going out of mileage limits and condition requirements. But they will then deserve what they get.

If they can just call it leasing now and avoid these 'marketing names' like agility, select etc. it would drive acceptance and adoption IMHO.

To answer VictorMike earlier in the thread, it is funny money.... whether BMW gives the discount upfront vs. at the time of the second sale, they are controlling the ecosystem. As long as the deal takes place under their control (and at this point you're basically forced to do so to get these rates), they can do this well. They may have 200K to deal with on a car and upfront offer 50K as assistance/deposit/etc, trade it at the GFV time and still have 150K to cover refurb plus discounting to (flooded) market rates (hypothetically). They don't lose and they hide the true costs and exposure behind the veil of the value proposition to the client. They essentially say: "This works for us and that's all you need to know". The truth is that they could probably sell you that car for far, far cheaper upfront, still make money... and probably would if you went to the right dealer and salesman with cash... If anything it illustrates just how inflated the base prices of vehicles have become that this is an option for the entire trade...

Case in point, Apple (who sells no OEM parts) will take your slightly damaged phone, give you a new one for x amount of pay-in depending on whether you are on apple care or not (you ask yourself how they can make money on this). However, they will fix yours for < R1500, repackage it and sell it certified pre-owned for what is on-balance an equation in their favour.

Welcome to the car as a managed service. At this point, millennials are so used to not owning stuff, it comes as second nature, vs us Hybrids and Gen Xers who still like to have 'something vs. nothing' or the boomers who demand outright ownership and control (again to generalise).
 
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