M8 Competition Future Used Price

[TBP88]

If I am spending more than R1m+ on a car, it must have a prancing German horse on the bonnet.
If more than R2m+, a prancing Italian horse (or a bull) would do

Haha, good luck bud. A kitted Cayman GT4 is around R2m now

R2m in porsche gets you a bone stock GT4 with around R200k change...

a 911TurboS is about 3,5m or so. I'd take that over an M8C all day, every day.

Unless you don't care about depreciation (and if it's R50k+ a month worth of depreciation alone, you care) the M8 makes little sense to me.
If you want luxury GTs, get a bentley, if you want a fast usable sportscar 911Turbo, if you want an all round 4 seater, get an M5.

They're kinda cool. But they're not worth R3m+, hell I'd struggle to justify R1.5m for one that is 3yrs old. Imagine the maintenance out of plan? Brake discs are probably like 20k each!!!

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Also, even at R1.5m it's still got a steep bit of depreciation to go - look at the v10 M6s, the best one out there is probably a R400-500k car...

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I will always buy used, even if I would have the big bucks one day.
A used 981 GTS/GT4 or 991 would suit me fine.
The M8 would make a brilliant 3-4 year old used buy, with about 30,000km on the clock.

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Even then, the old Cayman GT4 is still >R1m, a good one with nice spec probably R1.3m-ish?

Sad reality is, R1m isn't a lot to go shopping with these days in the upper echelons.

Even 996Turbos which you could have a year back for R500-600k, they're now around 650-700k for nice ones.

I think the best current bargain for sportscars is a 997.1 C2S, can probably be had for R500k flat. Will be decently quick in a straight line, looks great. IMS aside it's pretty reliable too (and fixing IMS isn't outrageously pricey either).

 

[IWannaGoFast]

Guys who are talking about ferrari's and lambo's in the 2-3mil mark need to sort high-low on auto trader.

This is the cheapest huracan. 3.5mil 2014 model
https://www.autotrader.co.za/redirect/listing/25398352

Ferraris are better, can pick up a california T for roughly 2.5mil but its a california so ...

 

[TurboLlew]

The abundance of x35, x40, turbo M cars, AMGs and RS cars (all with improving reliability and the dynamic of the cheapies like 20/28/30is potentially being just as 'unreliable') will also have an impact on the enthusiast space - eg: I am not sure what the lay of the land will look like soon since we have

R300-500K M5/6 F10/12/13 pricing out of plan and sub 900K in plan on the same or even limited editions like Pure Metal or Competition Edition which were 2M not long ago. People are discovering they are not bad to own out of plan and easy to mod (relatively).
R500K-700K F80/82 M3/4 pricing - even limited editions like the GTS and DTM trading hands a full million (if not more - there was a DTM that sold for 1.2M yesterday) cheaper than sale price. These will take the most heat I think as people will weigh up the known evil of bearings on older cars with the 'evolving' evil of crank hub issues (but still, maintenance and mod ease applies).
R600-900K M2 & M2 Comp - these make a heck of a lot of sense in that range

you also have this dynamic of the 'older' E39 M5, E46 M3, E92M3, E60 M5 - all coming into the same space as the rubbish ends up scrapped/parted out/pulled into 'rescue projects' whilst the good ones now get into their appreciation cycle from the lower 100s into 200, 300 and even 400K ranges - each becoming ever more expensive (beyond the modern cars costs) to maintain and needing cash buyers.

What I am trying to say is that the market has yet to find its equilibrium - once the trashed "current gen" cars are weeded out, we will have a situation where either the F series cars appreciate a little in value and meet the M8 and G-series cars on the way down, bolstering the used market overall

OR

we have them continue to depreciate and collapse the market for the older cars somewhat.

I somehow think with the BMW fanatics around in SA it will be the former scenario rather than the latter. For other brands this might be different. The M8 will depreciate... and depreciate alot. It will (I beleive) meet a floor somewhere (condition and mileage dependent) vs. depreciating to nothing because of those dynamics above. The resale value is still 'supported' by all the other good condition high performance cars beneath it.

This isn't taking into account numbered or limited cars - just "M Performance" and M cars.

 

[individj]

Guys who are talking about ferrari's and lambo's in the 2-3mil mark need to sort high-low on auto trader.

This is the cheapest huracan. 3.5mil 2014 model
https://www.autotrader.co.za/redirect/listing/25398352

Ferraris are better, can pick up a california T for roughly 2.5mil but its a california so ...

F430 for R1.9...im happy with it...ive experienced it and its great

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https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used/2009-Ferrari-F430-Scuderia-Gauteng-Johannesburg/6138417/

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ive had this, R8's and Mclarens in my road....sometimes racing in it....all dope but i just loved the F430 so much...had so much presence and the sound was amazing....i know for many here it has to be the latest and greatest and must be no less than like 3 years old but fcukit im old school i dont care.

 

[TurboLlew]

Guys who are talking about ferrari's and lambo's in the 2-3mil mark need to sort high-low on auto trader.

This is the cheapest huracan. 3.5mil 2014 model
https://www.autotrader.co.za/redirect/listing/25398352

Ferraris are better, can pick up a california T for roughly 2.5mil but its a california so ...

F430 for R1.9...im happy with it...ive experienced it and its great

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https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used/2009-Ferrari-F430-Scuderia-Gauteng-Johannesburg/6138417/

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ive had this, R8's and Mclarens in my road....sometimes racing in it....all dope but i just loved the F430 so much...had so much presence and the sound was amazing....i know for many here it has to be the latest and greatest and must be no less than like 3 years old but fcukit im old school i dont care.

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F430 is a lovely thing for the money - soul, handling, looks... nobody cares that it is old - its a Ferrari. It also hasn't dated (on the interior) nearly as badly as the same generation Gallardo...

California at Pharoah was R1.9M and still had a year of plan left. People have their prejudices against it but to me it was every bit a Ferrari. I will check for pics and video I took of it when I was shopping. Still something about the F430 for me though!

 

[IWannaGoFast]

My belief is that if you're going to spend over 2mil on a car buy something newish.
My perspective is if I had the funds to buy one supercar weekend car, If it's the 5th or 6th car in your garage then it's different

 

[TBP88]

The abundance of x35, x40, turbo M cars, AMGs and RS cars (all with improving reliability and the dynamic of the cheapies like 20/28/30is potentially being just as 'unreliable') will also have an impact on the enthusiast space - eg: I am not sure what the lay of the land will look like soon since we have

R300-500K M5/6 F10/12/13 pricing out of plan and sub 900K in plan on the same or even limited editions like Pure Metal or Competition Edition which were 2M not long ago. People are discovering they are not bad to own out of plan and easy to mod (relatively).
R500K-700K F80/82 M3/4 pricing - even limited editions like the GTS and DTM trading hands a full million (if not more - there was a DTM that sold for 1.2M yesterday) cheaper than sale price. These will take the most heat I think as people will weigh up the known evil of bearings on older cars with the 'evolving' evil of crank hub issues (but still, maintenance and mod ease applies).
R600-900K M2 & M2 Comp - these make a heck of a lot of sense in that range

you also have this dynamic of the 'older' E39 M5, E46 M3, E92M3, E60 M5 - all coming into the same space as the rubbish ends up scrapped/parted out/pulled into 'rescue projects' whilst the good ones now get into their appreciation cycle from the lower 100s into 200, 300 and even 400K ranges - each becoming ever more expensive (beyond the modern cars costs) to maintain and needing cash buyers.

What I am trying to say is that the market has yet to find its equilibrium - once the trashed "current gen" cars are weeded out, we will have a situation where either the F series cars appreciate a little in value and meet the M8 and G-series cars on the way down, bolstering the used market overall

OR

we have them continue to depreciate and collapse the market for the older cars somewhat.

I somehow think with the BMW fanatics around in SA it will be the former scenario rather than the latter. For other brands this might be different. The M8 will depreciate... and depreciate alot. It will (I beleive) meet a floor somewhere (condition and mileage dependent) vs. depreciating to nothing because of those dynamics above. The resale value is still 'supported' by all the other good condition high performance cars beneath it.

This isn't taking into account numbered or limited cars - just "M Performance" and M cars.

Interesting, as much as the "good" older Ms will prop the market up, so will the "bad" more expensive cars push the market down. Porsche 997 and 991s are both pretty solid (the 991 especially) and I think that is going to peg stuff like an M8 down.

Why spend R1.5m on a BMW m8 when you can get a really nice 991.2 GTS for the same money in 2 yrs time?

I'm not sure, when the Cayman GT4 launched I spec'd my ideal car to be around R1.7m, now that same spec is more like R1.95m, that's just silly. At R1.7m with low rates and maybe a dealer giving you some juice you can just about justify the spend, but at R2m it's not even remotely worth it.

My thoughts drift more towards a nice 997.1c2s, spending R100k fixing and sorting it and then making that the toy.

 

[MR_Y]

My belief is that if you're going to spend over 2mil on a car buy something newish.
My perspective is if I had the funds to buy one supercar weekend car, If it's the 5th or 6th car in your garage then it's different

If buying over R2m newish, it has to be a future classic.  Everything else will cost so much in depreciation that it makes buying an older/used car for R2m a bargain, even after factoring maintenance costs.

However, if the car is just a business expense, then new it is.

 

[TurboLlew]

The abundance of x35, x40, turbo M cars, AMGs and RS cars (all with improving reliability and the dynamic of the cheapies like 20/28/30is potentially being just as 'unreliable') will also have an impact on the enthusiast space - eg: I am not sure what the lay of the land will look like soon since we have

R300-500K M5/6 F10/12/13 pricing out of plan and sub 900K in plan on the same or even limited editions like Pure Metal or Competition Edition which were 2M not long ago. People are discovering they are not bad to own out of plan and easy to mod (relatively).
R500K-700K F80/82 M3/4 pricing - even limited editions like the GTS and DTM trading hands a full million (if not more - there was a DTM that sold for 1.2M yesterday) cheaper than sale price. These will take the most heat I think as people will weigh up the known evil of bearings on older cars with the 'evolving' evil of crank hub issues (but still, maintenance and mod ease applies).
R600-900K M2 & M2 Comp - these make a heck of a lot of sense in that range

you also have this dynamic of the 'older' E39 M5, E46 M3, E92M3, E60 M5 - all coming into the same space as the rubbish ends up scrapped/parted out/pulled into 'rescue projects' whilst the good ones now get into their appreciation cycle from the lower 100s into 200, 300 and even 400K ranges - each becoming ever more expensive (beyond the modern cars costs) to maintain and needing cash buyers.

What I am trying to say is that the market has yet to find its equilibrium - once the trashed "current gen" cars are weeded out, we will have a situation where either the F series cars appreciate a little in value and meet the M8 and G-series cars on the way down, bolstering the used market overall

OR

we have them continue to depreciate and collapse the market for the older cars somewhat.

I somehow think with the BMW fanatics around in SA it will be the former scenario rather than the latter. For other brands this might be different. The M8 will depreciate... and depreciate alot. It will (I beleive) meet a floor somewhere (condition and mileage dependent) vs. depreciating to nothing because of those dynamics above. The resale value is still 'supported' by all the other good condition high performance cars beneath it.

This isn't taking into account numbered or limited cars - just "M Performance" and M cars.

Interesting, as much as the "good" older Ms will prop the market up, so will the "bad" more expensive cars push the market down. Porsche 997 and 991s are both pretty solid (the 991 especially) and I think that is going to peg stuff like an M8 down.

Why spend R1.5m on a BMW m8 when you can get a really nice 991.2 GTS for the same money in 2 yrs time?

I'm not sure, when the Cayman GT4 launched I spec'd my ideal car to be around R1.7m, now that same spec is more like R1.95m, that's just silly. At R1.7m with low rates and maybe a dealer giving you some juice you can just about justify the spend, but at R2m it's not even remotely worth it.

My thoughts drift more towards a nice 997.1c2s, spending R100k fixing and sorting it and then making that the toy.

A Turbo S or GT3 RS etc is a no brainer vs an M8. However, I feel like an M8 for R1.5 is a much easier choice vs. a 991.2 GTS.

A GTS makes life for the M4 (and 63) at its rumoured prices a non-starter.

 

[nish_M240i]

The abundance of x35, x40, turbo M cars, AMGs and RS cars (all with improving reliability and the dynamic of the cheapies like 20/28/30is potentially being just as 'unreliable') will also have an impact on the enthusiast space - eg: I am not sure what the lay of the land will look like soon since we have

R300-500K M5/6 F10/12/13 pricing out of plan and sub 900K in plan on the same or even limited editions like Pure Metal or Competition Edition which were 2M not long ago. People are discovering they are not bad to own out of plan and easy to mod (relatively).
R500K-700K F80/82 M3/4 pricing - even limited editions like the GTS and DTM trading hands a full million (if not more - there was a DTM that sold for 1.2M yesterday) cheaper than sale price. These will take the most heat I think as people will weigh up the known evil of bearings on older cars with the 'evolving' evil of crank hub issues (but still, maintenance and mod ease applies).
R600-900K M2 & M2 Comp - these make a heck of a lot of sense in that range

you also have this dynamic of the 'older' E39 M5, E46 M3, E92M3, E60 M5 - all coming into the same space as the rubbish ends up scrapped/parted out/pulled into 'rescue projects' whilst the good ones now get into their appreciation cycle from the lower 100s into 200, 300 and even 400K ranges - each becoming ever more expensive (beyond the modern cars costs) to maintain and needing cash buyers.

What I am trying to say is that the market has yet to find its equilibrium - once the trashed "current gen" cars are weeded out, we will have a situation where either the F series cars appreciate a little in value and meet the M8 and G-series cars on the way down, bolstering the used market overall

OR

we have them continue to depreciate and collapse the market for the older cars somewhat.

I somehow think with the BMW fanatics around in SA it will be the former scenario rather than the latter. For other brands this might be different. The M8 will depreciate... and depreciate alot. It will (I beleive) meet a floor somewhere (condition and mileage dependent) vs. depreciating to nothing because of those dynamics above. The resale value is still 'supported' by all the other good condition high performance cars beneath it.

This isn't taking into account numbered or limited cars - just "M Performance" and M cars.

This is very true, you always make such logical points Llew. The market has yet to have found its equilibrium and its probably going to become worse considering we in COVID. So the M8 is definitely going to depreciate in the next year or so by a large margin. I'd be surprised if they'll be over 2 Mill by next year. If there's any BMWs that have held their value extremely well,it has to be the M3 CSL and the 1M even though those are limited models. The cheapest 1M I've ever seen was for about 500k and it had about 150k on the clock, and back then it only retailed at about that price brand new I think. My dad had actually had one on order but he cancelled it last minute, biggest mistake of his life.

 

[LOW BOOST]

Hi Guys, just an observation..
With the modern sports car being ever so quick.
How do you guys properly enjoy vehicles over the 200wkw mark.?
The speeds the likes of Gtis can hit on the freeways are crazy, i can only imagine those 400kw vehicles can do.
250 kmh a decade ago was not an easy feat,
These days the average sports car does it with gears to spare.
With doing high speeds on the freeway even when the lane is completely empty for kms down, the chances of someone in the centre lane quickly changing lanes to the right and then a hard brake needed is so common.
Unlike Germany, our freeway culture is much different.
I don't even know how many prepped tracks are available in the country, but even if we rarely go to the track, insurance companies won't be too happy if things go south, I'm also unsure if maintenance plans will be willing to change brake pads and disc often.
So back to the question,
If I had the funds to buy a quick vehicle, I would like to enjoy the power for what's it worth.
Is buying a 400kw vehicle in SA even worth it?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[TurboLlew]

Its not how fast you go... its how it feels and dynamics getting there.

In our household we range from 40hp to 700hp and a variety of weights... i would never give up my bahnstormer lol... and I would absolutely buy more (and different) cars

 

[MR_Y]

Hi Guys, just an observation..
With the modern sports car being ever so quick.
How do you guys properly enjoy vehicles over the 200wkw mark.?
The speeds the likes of Gtis can hit on the freeways are crazy, i can only imagine those 400kw vehicles can do.
250 kmh a decade ago was not an easy feat,
These days the average sports car does it with gears to spare.
With doing high speeds on the freeway even when the lane is completely empty for kms down, the chances of someone in the centre lane quickly changing lanes to the right and then a hard brake needed is so common.
Unlike Germany, our freeway culture is much different.
I don't even know how many prepped tracks are available in the country, but even if we rarely go to the track, insurance companies won't be too happy if things go south, I'm also unsure if maintenance plans will be willing to change brake pads and disc often.
So back to the question,
If I had the funds to buy a quick vehicle, I would like to enjoy the power for what's it worth.
Is buying a 400kw vehicle in SA even worth it?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Brilliant point!
There is too much power and too much insulation in modern sport cars (even sport hatches) to properly enjoy them at sane speeds.
Consider a Golf R vs a Suzuki Swift Sport.
In the R you need to travel above 160kmh to really get a thrill and over 200kmh to get a proper thrill.
In a Swift Sport, you have to work a bit harder but that thrill (and sense of achievement) can be attained at legal speeds.

Dual clutch boxes, thick plastic/rubber sound deadening and traction control systems have anesthetised the old school thrill of driving.
Old Porsche Turbos, E36 M3s , even the Opel TS, were not called widowmakers for nothing.
These cars needed to be respected and you had to earn that respect and work with the car to extract that thrill.

Am E36 M3 (even an E46) may not be faster than a modern day GTI from a standing start at the Reef, but it has a sense of occasion that modern cars lack and can make you smile at any speed.

 

[individj]

ja its not about top end for me....i would rarely run at top end but there are places to safely do it at the right times...i love acceleration...i also love twisties like the trip from GB to Bettys Bay

 

[Faya92]

I remember as clear as daylight, in 2017 a M6 GC with a few extras was about 2.1 million, today you can get a 2017 with like 20k kms for 900k, about 43% of the value, so safe to say in 3 year, that 3.4 million rand M8 with low kms should sell for around 1.4-1.5 million.

I hope they sell lots brand new so theres enough supply for us down the line,  :roflol:


That depreciation is insanity, works out to like 50k a month

Its honestly scary that they dropping by that much, this should be under 2 mill at least. The M6 is still a very good looking car, but definitely its never really worth spending that much on a brand new M car.

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If I am spending more than R1m+ on a car, it must have a prancing German horse on the bonnet.
If more than R2m+, a prancing Italian horse (or a bull) would do

Haha, good luck bud. A kitted Cayman GT4 is around R2m now

R2m in porsche gets you a bone stock GT4 with around R200k change...

a 911TurboS is about 3,5m or so. I'd take that over an M8C all day, every day.

Unless you don't care about depreciation (and if it's R50k+ a month worth of depreciation alone, you care) the M8 makes little sense to me.
If you want luxury GTs, get a bentley, if you want a fast usable sportscar 911Turbo, if you want an all round 4 seater, get an M5.

They're kinda cool. But they're not worth R3m+, hell I'd struggle to justify R1.5m for one that is 3yrs old. Imagine the maintenance out of plan? Brake discs are probably like 20k each!!!

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Also, even at R1.5m it's still got a steep bit of depreciation to go - look at the v10 M6s, the best one out there is probably a R400-500k car...

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I guess the porsches definitely hold value better than the M cars for sure. Not everyone wants to take the depreciation though, which is why its better to get an M car pre-owned with low mileage. The f80 M3s were about 1.2-1.3 brand new, and now they selling low mileage for about 700 or so which is very reasonable. Its normally the older M cars that are holding value well like the E92 M3, there's going to come a time where that will be worth more than the F80 M3 and M4. 

Maintenance out of plan is definitely going to be expensive. On that topic, my dad's f10 M5 LCI will be out of plan this year, so he's thinking of extending it, but we'll see when the time comes for that.

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but the question should be why are they charging that price? I think its because they trying to get into the supercar/hypercar scene, something like the amg gtr, etc

Its possible, because the last supercar BMW made was I think the M1 (not 1M) or the 850csi which was a very long time. I know they said the i8 was a supercar but to me its not, all I see in it is a hybrid coupe.

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yea I think this is exactly what they attempting