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Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Llew's F90 M5
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
General.Massacre
///Member
Quite a clever bit of kit this, looks OEM. definately a worthwhile additionCrazy how bmw don’t do a proper fix of the coolant tank. My still has a few years left of motorplan, so going to get the aftermarket drip tray. Apparently shouldn’t affect my motorplan, better than the injectors constantly getting hammered.
Level Performance Coolant Catch Pan (CCP) F90 M5 / F9X M8
Leaking coolant tank is truly an Achilles heel of F90 M5 / F9X M8 platforms. When the coolant tank in your F90 M5 or F9X M8 begins to leak, the CCP is a lifesaver. Here's how it works: Leak Prevention: If the coolant tank leaks, the CCP catches and channels the leaking coolant away from the...mrvanos.com
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TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Already 60000km on the old girl. I am afraid I was unable to capture the moment of changing over as my phone had 'somehow' made its way into the passenger footwell...
It has been relatively uneventful for me and a generally pleasant experience apart from whatever has been documented in this thread which on the timescale that I've owned this car has not been bad. I think being able to use it as virtually a daily also makes things like the coolant tank and wheel hub noises that arose a few times easier to accept than perhaps those that have this as purely a weekend car or driven on occasion... so it probably feels more frustrating when you're waiting to drive your special thing and it presents you with an issue of sorts.
I do believe BMW support has gone south, speaking to others and also having to witness service advisors and workshop staff fighting to get your car repaired quickly all the while someone at HQ is watching a video and saying a procedure must be followed when it is quite obvious to everyone (including the owner) what the actual issue is. This is in such stark contrast to the experience I had when Hevashan was at Midrand as well as when I dealt with Shaun at JSN years back. It feels like we are heading towards the "Mercedes" experience I had with the W205 where every plan claim was traumatic and every problem with the car was somehow my fault or having too high of a standard.
I am 'almost' keen for plan to end so I can do the actual permanent fix for the coolant tank if it ever returns and DIY things that I (frankly) don't trust workshop staff to do. I have had to complain about a number of clips broken or missing, rubber bits not reinstalled properly, channels not re-clipped in etc after services and while they always do sort it out if it requires a new item, it is annoying to have to basically clean up after them AFTER also going through the above process with the repair. It's not exactly a cheap indie service shop with limited resources... I have considered removing plastic panels and the engine cover before sending the car in before, but then it will just be my luck that they decide to void my plan for this 😐
These mileage milestones have you wondering what next... and of course everyone asking.
Seeing some of the G90s around, I have still not been tempted to buy one, but I had been extremely keen on a G99. Unfortunately every issue with the G90 appears amplified in the G99. May as well buy a slightly used Cayenne Turbo S at that point for pseudo wagon duty. I've been tempted by one of these, but I also have become so used to the old cayenne and not having to stress so much about an expensive or 'nice' thing that I can't imagine replacing it yet.
Anyway I've mentioned in the other threads that the G90 is a VERY fast car but is much further away from the M3 than the G80 and F90 are. Part of it is the weight but there are other choices that have been made to make the dynamic gap wider on purpose, probably because it is so much cheaper to make an M3 yet they are pretty close on price in market as well... Crackpot market positioning theories aside:
I am very keen on perhaps that Alfa wagon with a GTA busso motor or a project E46 M3 Touring build to scratch the itch. I know it sounds crazy, but in terms of the tourings even, I still don't like the M3 front but I do like the G90 front and the rear design disaster is fixed by it being a Touring. Pity about how it drives/feels and performs, according to the internet anyway 😐
I am of course biased but I do still think it is a beautiful car even with newer/better out and still for me the best car for a dad that likes fast things.
It has been relatively uneventful for me and a generally pleasant experience apart from whatever has been documented in this thread which on the timescale that I've owned this car has not been bad. I think being able to use it as virtually a daily also makes things like the coolant tank and wheel hub noises that arose a few times easier to accept than perhaps those that have this as purely a weekend car or driven on occasion... so it probably feels more frustrating when you're waiting to drive your special thing and it presents you with an issue of sorts.
I do believe BMW support has gone south, speaking to others and also having to witness service advisors and workshop staff fighting to get your car repaired quickly all the while someone at HQ is watching a video and saying a procedure must be followed when it is quite obvious to everyone (including the owner) what the actual issue is. This is in such stark contrast to the experience I had when Hevashan was at Midrand as well as when I dealt with Shaun at JSN years back. It feels like we are heading towards the "Mercedes" experience I had with the W205 where every plan claim was traumatic and every problem with the car was somehow my fault or having too high of a standard.
I am 'almost' keen for plan to end so I can do the actual permanent fix for the coolant tank if it ever returns and DIY things that I (frankly) don't trust workshop staff to do. I have had to complain about a number of clips broken or missing, rubber bits not reinstalled properly, channels not re-clipped in etc after services and while they always do sort it out if it requires a new item, it is annoying to have to basically clean up after them AFTER also going through the above process with the repair. It's not exactly a cheap indie service shop with limited resources... I have considered removing plastic panels and the engine cover before sending the car in before, but then it will just be my luck that they decide to void my plan for this 😐
These mileage milestones have you wondering what next... and of course everyone asking.
Seeing some of the G90s around, I have still not been tempted to buy one, but I had been extremely keen on a G99. Unfortunately every issue with the G90 appears amplified in the G99. May as well buy a slightly used Cayenne Turbo S at that point for pseudo wagon duty. I've been tempted by one of these, but I also have become so used to the old cayenne and not having to stress so much about an expensive or 'nice' thing that I can't imagine replacing it yet.
Anyway I've mentioned in the other threads that the G90 is a VERY fast car but is much further away from the M3 than the G80 and F90 are. Part of it is the weight but there are other choices that have been made to make the dynamic gap wider on purpose, probably because it is so much cheaper to make an M3 yet they are pretty close on price in market as well... Crackpot market positioning theories aside:
I am very keen on perhaps that Alfa wagon with a GTA busso motor or a project E46 M3 Touring build to scratch the itch. I know it sounds crazy, but in terms of the tourings even, I still don't like the M3 front but I do like the G90 front and the rear design disaster is fixed by it being a Touring. Pity about how it drives/feels and performs, according to the internet anyway 😐
I am of course biased but I do still think it is a beautiful car even with newer/better out and still for me the best car for a dad that likes fast things.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
It was time for some spring cleaning this weekend:
The matte-ness of the leather is notoriously hard to capture with reflections and what seems like textures LOL.
I did my usual Gyeon leather cleaner on an interior scrub pad, followed by a warm water wipe down and Gyeon Leather Shield Evo.
I tried a bunch of 'new' products over the past year including Nasiol washes, various turtlewax pro things, some Autoglym alternatives etc... but I have now reverted to using Gyeon (albeit newly formulated versions) for most tasks including the APC.
The vid may do a better job of capturing the leather.
The matte-ness of the leather is notoriously hard to capture with reflections and what seems like textures LOL.
I did my usual Gyeon leather cleaner on an interior scrub pad, followed by a warm water wipe down and Gyeon Leather Shield Evo.
I tried a bunch of 'new' products over the past year including Nasiol washes, various turtlewax pro things, some Autoglym alternatives etc... but I have now reverted to using Gyeon (albeit newly formulated versions) for most tasks including the APC.
The vid may do a better job of capturing the leather.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
With the last stretch of my extended plan nearing its end, my last visit to BMW Midrand was a fairly comprehensive one:
On the list were:
1. Spark Plugs
2. Air filters
3. Oil service
4. Microfilters
5. Addressing a noise from the front when turning at full lock
6. New sensors in a couple of wheels
7. Torquing various bits of the suspension
8. Vehicle inspection (Which revealed no other issues)
The prior two services covered the 'rear axle service' and brake fluid flush both of which will be for my account next time unless BMW follows its competitors and offers 10 or 12 year extensions soon. Motorplan is a no-brainer while you can get it. I will "be the motorplan" in future LOL. From April next year I can also go about 'permanently' addressing things like the coolant tank (with a billet unit), various small suspension tweaks and some cosmetic and coding items that are not plan-friendly (or skirt what can be done on plan).
Unlike the G90, the F90 is a car that I knew I would inevitably own when it launched, even while I had a 'perfect for me' F10. I still remember seeing the launch edition in all its glory outside the Nürburgring visitor's centre (I have a pic of this somewhere), half-knowing it would one day live in my garage.
While I still believe some of the interior materials are superior on the F10 (and E60 and E39), I do believe this is a sweet spot of sorts in terms of technology within the lineage. Raw performance and usable technology without the 'over digitisation' newer cars (from all brands) are flirting with. It's a car that doesn't feel like a forex trading desk but still delivers on the M5 experience.
This one (as documented here) is also basically tailored to what I wanted out of one and is probably how I would have specced one if I had ordered it brand new anyway.
I don't anticipate selling the F90 or trading it even now with 'only 6 months' of plan left. BMW seems to have made sure I have no compelling successor to move to right now... at least not until we get a full-EV (!) that feels 'integrated' properly or much more polished M5 LCI/M8.
The state of the broader market is also influencing how I look at upgrades. In terms of replacements, while I did consider LCIs, finding one that is (firstly) available, has no stories and also has a decent spec is nearly impossible. Nearly all LCIs seem to be missing options that are non-negotiable for me (and I assume this is because nobody specced them as 'owners' and BMW just brought their strangely specced things in as they tend to do).
The performance car market in general is full of hidden damage, storied cars, mileage reversals and generally dodgy overpriced things. I think people with good cars are generally holding on to them or asking for very large amounts of money.
Though there is no upgrade for me, we are looking at other stuff eg replacing the Cayenne: After owning the Cayenne and dealing a bit with Porsche (even such an old one), I don't really find the X5 to be compelling for our purposes. I don't feel like you get materially more space than an X3, the 'equation' of available plan and extensions doesn't make sense for me relative to current market prices for the ones I'd be interested in.
In terms of what is next my choices are actually quite 'diverse' being a Mustang convertible or newer E3 Cayenne Turbo/Turbo S for the Mrs. X3M or M40i is also an option (She loves these). I had initially wanted to get a yellow or red convertible of sorts but that plan lost momentum just dealing with 'the market' and the cars and characters in it. I am still debating whether to keep the Cayenne for an overlanding build of sorts (or just use it as my 'bakkie') while still adding something else here, but we will see what happens I guess. As it stands any of these options will allow me to trade the Cayenne for about what I have in it (partially with inflated 'trade assists' designed to make trading a no-brainer from both BMW and Porsche I am sure)
But anyway to close this off after all these years, miles and smiles:
The F90 remains a 'true' M5 and one that gives us probably the last (albeit minor) murmurs of an analogue heartbeat in a modern mid-sized sedan. It is increasingly worth holding on to given today’s market conditions. Either way, the next garage decision will likely be shaped more by lifestyle, usability and emotion than by pure performance metrics.
On the list were:
1. Spark Plugs
2. Air filters
3. Oil service
4. Microfilters
5. Addressing a noise from the front when turning at full lock
6. New sensors in a couple of wheels
7. Torquing various bits of the suspension
8. Vehicle inspection (Which revealed no other issues)
The prior two services covered the 'rear axle service' and brake fluid flush both of which will be for my account next time unless BMW follows its competitors and offers 10 or 12 year extensions soon. Motorplan is a no-brainer while you can get it. I will "be the motorplan" in future LOL. From April next year I can also go about 'permanently' addressing things like the coolant tank (with a billet unit), various small suspension tweaks and some cosmetic and coding items that are not plan-friendly (or skirt what can be done on plan).
Unlike the G90, the F90 is a car that I knew I would inevitably own when it launched, even while I had a 'perfect for me' F10. I still remember seeing the launch edition in all its glory outside the Nürburgring visitor's centre (I have a pic of this somewhere), half-knowing it would one day live in my garage.
While I still believe some of the interior materials are superior on the F10 (and E60 and E39), I do believe this is a sweet spot of sorts in terms of technology within the lineage. Raw performance and usable technology without the 'over digitisation' newer cars (from all brands) are flirting with. It's a car that doesn't feel like a forex trading desk but still delivers on the M5 experience.
This one (as documented here) is also basically tailored to what I wanted out of one and is probably how I would have specced one if I had ordered it brand new anyway.
I don't anticipate selling the F90 or trading it even now with 'only 6 months' of plan left. BMW seems to have made sure I have no compelling successor to move to right now... at least not until we get a full-EV (!) that feels 'integrated' properly or much more polished M5 LCI/M8.
The state of the broader market is also influencing how I look at upgrades. In terms of replacements, while I did consider LCIs, finding one that is (firstly) available, has no stories and also has a decent spec is nearly impossible. Nearly all LCIs seem to be missing options that are non-negotiable for me (and I assume this is because nobody specced them as 'owners' and BMW just brought their strangely specced things in as they tend to do).
The performance car market in general is full of hidden damage, storied cars, mileage reversals and generally dodgy overpriced things. I think people with good cars are generally holding on to them or asking for very large amounts of money.
Though there is no upgrade for me, we are looking at other stuff eg replacing the Cayenne: After owning the Cayenne and dealing a bit with Porsche (even such an old one), I don't really find the X5 to be compelling for our purposes. I don't feel like you get materially more space than an X3, the 'equation' of available plan and extensions doesn't make sense for me relative to current market prices for the ones I'd be interested in.
In terms of what is next my choices are actually quite 'diverse' being a Mustang convertible or newer E3 Cayenne Turbo/Turbo S for the Mrs. X3M or M40i is also an option (She loves these). I had initially wanted to get a yellow or red convertible of sorts but that plan lost momentum just dealing with 'the market' and the cars and characters in it. I am still debating whether to keep the Cayenne for an overlanding build of sorts (or just use it as my 'bakkie') while still adding something else here, but we will see what happens I guess. As it stands any of these options will allow me to trade the Cayenne for about what I have in it (partially with inflated 'trade assists' designed to make trading a no-brainer from both BMW and Porsche I am sure)
But anyway to close this off after all these years, miles and smiles:
The F90 remains a 'true' M5 and one that gives us probably the last (albeit minor) murmurs of an analogue heartbeat in a modern mid-sized sedan. It is increasingly worth holding on to given today’s market conditions. Either way, the next garage decision will likely be shaped more by lifestyle, usability and emotion than by pure performance metrics.
Nishcat_M140i
///Member
BMW really perfected the F90, to the point that the G90 feels somewhat underwhelming (haven't driven one yet and don't plan on).
Its definitely a car that has no suitable replacement and its a tough one to beat, considering its practical and has supercar power. A few people I know traded in their F90 Comps for G80 Comps and each one of them regretted it. As much as the G80 is quite nimble and fun to drive, the F90 is absolutely worlds apart.
Its the last of its kind.
Its definitely a car that has no suitable replacement and its a tough one to beat, considering its practical and has supercar power. A few people I know traded in their F90 Comps for G80 Comps and each one of them regretted it. As much as the G80 is quite nimble and fun to drive, the F90 is absolutely worlds apart.
Its the last of its kind.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I've said before (and not meant as a knock on the G80 or F8x) but half the guys that have them think they have a 911, the other half think they have an M5 and they are both wrong LOL. For one and done it is hard to beat a G8x but if you have an F9x already and want a sportscar experience you really have to go to an actual sportscar I feel
modocrat
Well-known member
Perhaps a four five eight?
Nishcat_M140i
///Member
If you going Ferrari, have to go for that glorious V12 experience. F12 all the way
Ferrari F12 Berlinetta for sale in Cape Town - ID: 28109781
Used 2015 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta For Sale - R 5 195 000 - ID: 28109781
www.autotrader.co.za
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
If you going Ferrari, have to go for that glorious V12 experience. F12 all the way
Ferrari F12 Berlinetta for sale in Cape Town - ID: 28109781
Used 2015 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta For Sale - R 5 195 000 - ID: 28109781
Driven a couple of 458s in the last weeks and a 599... so watch this space... maybe... LOL - unfortunately or maybe fortunately my risk appetite is not what it once was. Also it means getting rid of my beloved Alfa (just as it is going to get its new wheels) - Ferrari gives VERY good trade-in values though (no-brainer really)... lots of fat to work with I guess. Having large car installments (particularly on very old things) or losing things I love to make it happen becomes less appealing (lost too many things I love over the years really and in hindsight for no good reason really)
Out of curiosity what did you think of the 458s? They have been on my radar as they seem a relatively safe investment long term. From my research also seem reasonably reliable from the rental fleets that get good mileage out of them.
The F12 cabin is allot more comfortable, think long term the 458 will hold its value better though.
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In terms of performance/price a new M5 will double your cost will nearly the same real world performance.
If it was me, my thinking would be
1. I have the car from nearly new and its still pristine, good looking and in perfect health.
2. If i take a fraction of payments of a buying a new m5, save 3 years or so I could do a complete mechanical or close to it rejuvenation.
3. Buy a toy when thats done but still have a mechanically new turbo V8 Sedan for my daily.
What more can a car do that the F90 M5 doesnt deliver on !
If it was me, my thinking would be
1. I have the car from nearly new and its still pristine, good looking and in perfect health.
2. If i take a fraction of payments of a buying a new m5, save 3 years or so I could do a complete mechanical or close to it rejuvenation.
3. Buy a toy when thats done but still have a mechanically new turbo V8 Sedan for my daily.
What more can a car do that the F90 M5 doesnt deliver on !
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
They are lovely cars - considered by many to be peak Ferrari. I have spoken to a few guys who went from 458s to 488s or F8s and regret the move to some degree - or at least regret selling their 458s.
Value wise they are on the rise. At some point you could buy one from Ferrari for R3M. They are now (in a fairly short space of time) R4M (eg the one below) for nice ones. Speciales are past R10M.
Ferrari does a good job of refurbing cars to avoid what you see in the open market (new plastic bits that tend to get sticky, new buttons, alot of cosmetic refurb that makes it feel like a brand new car). From what I have seen I would only buy from the actual dealers, Rosso Auto and maybe Ferris. It is a bucket list item for me so I am fussy about what counts as perfect too. The ones you find elsewhere have the normal stories when you dig. The main dealers also have a few cars with stories but they will tell you about them openly at least
Ferrari themselves are amazing to deal with. If you need a sales guy I can share details with you. As with Porsche and Lambo you have to get in touch to see the best of the cars before they hit the showroom floor (and worst of them that you may be willing to get into as a first step).
I would love an F12 but it is again R1-1.5M beyond what I'd be able to make work. It is a fantastic car though and is also in a sweet spot of sorts. Fewer issues than the 812 apparently as well.
There is nothing that handles quite like a Ferrari does. At least part of this is the small boy inside of you just being excited to drive one I guess. It just isn't exactly a fast car here at altitude. A Turbo S will make short work of it. The gearbox is DCT which is a massive improvement over the 430 and is fine even in traffic. I ended up inadvertantly driving through alot of traffic on two seperate occasions in 599 and 458. The 458 makes an intoxicating noise that later cars don't have - the only better sounds will come from cars with more cylinders. If you can daily an F82, you'd be able to daily a 458 I feel... plenty comfortable for me.
Just bear in mind the 488 feels like it is MUCH faster than the 458 is at altitude- far more than the numbers on paper will make it seem. It also has this way of feeling almost NA in its delivery... The only downside is that visually the 458 is probably slightly prettier and makes a much nicer noise (again more in person because it is tough to tell from videos). I don't think it will hold value as well over time, and who knows what italian first-gen turbocharging is going to be like in another 10 years.... but it is also not a heck of a lot more than 458s cost now. I have come across more than one of these which had a motor replacement but I guess that is also heavily dependent on use and the owner too with these sorts of things.
The 458 then is a LOT more reliable and a BIT more desirable than everything that came before it and a BIT more reliable and a LOT more desirable than everything that came afterwards
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TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
I've driven the new one a couple of times now and seen the wagon in person a couple of times too. It isn't for me, even if it cost what my F90 did.
There are even guys with 1 series and 2 series following your second point at this stage, such is the stupidity of new car prices. Without big deposits, some of these may land you with R30-40k/month car payments. You can save the cost of a "proper" mechanical refurb or upgrades in the space of a year (i.e.: new parts in a box or on pallets from BMW fitted by BMW). I have executed a 'lite version' of this strategy already with the Cayenne
)For us mere mortals driving on our roads, there really isn't much more you can ask for. I have driven far more exotic things, yet when I get back into the F90 or 4C I am reminded of just how difficult a real upgrade is. It isn't that I think these are the pinnacle of anything and neither do I feel that they don't have capable equivalents from other brands... if you don't already have an F90 for instance then there isn't any reason not to want a G90.
It's just that if you already own something (or things) like these, it is difficult to reach up towards the replacements. Especially not when they cost many times more for arguably incremental gains or wildly different kinds of ownership experience in some cases. On the latter: E92 owners can probably relate to this because their upgrade path basically went extinct unless you're counting a GT3 perhaps? Many don't consider an F82 or G82 for that matter to be an "upgrade" to the experience they are after.
They are lovely cars - considered by many to be peak Ferrari. I have spoken to a few guys who went from 458s to 488s or F8s and regret the move to some degree - or at least regret selling their 458s.
Value wise they are on the rise. At some point you could buy one from Ferrari for R3M. They are now (in a fairly short space of time) R4M (eg the one below) for nice ones. Speciales are past R10M.
Ferrari does a good job of refurbing cars to avoid what you see in the open market (new plastic bits that tend to get sticky, new buttons, alot of cosmetic refurb that makes it feel like a brand new car). From what I have seen I would only buy from the actual dealers, Rosso Auto and maybe Ferris. It is a bucket list item for me so I am fussy about what counts as perfect too. The ones you find elsewhere have the normal stories when you dig. The main dealers also have a few cars with stories but they will tell you about them openly at least
Ferrari themselves are amazing to deal with. If you need a sales guy I can share details with you. As with Porsche and Lambo you have to get in touch to see the best of the cars before they hit the showroom floor (and worst of them that you may be willing to get into as a first step).
I would love an F12 but it is again R1-1.5M beyond what I'd be able to make work. It is a fantastic car though and is also in a sweet spot of sorts. Fewer issues than the 812 apparently as well.
There is nothing that handles quite like a Ferrari does. At least part of this is the small boy inside of you just being excited to drive one I guess. It just isn't exactly a fast car here at altitude. A Turbo S will make short work of it. The gearbox is DCT which is a massive improvement over the 430 and is fine even in traffic. I ended up inadvertantly driving through alot of traffic on two seperate occasions in 599 and 458. The 458 makes an intoxicating noise that later cars don't have - the only better sounds will come from cars with more cylinders. If you can daily an F82, you'd be able to daily a 458 I feel... plenty comfortable for me.
Just bear in mind the 488 feels like it is MUCH faster than the 458 is at altitude- far more than the numbers on paper will make it seem. It also has this way of feeling almost NA in its delivery... The only downside is that visually the 458 is probably slightly prettier and makes a much nicer noise (again more in person because it is tough to tell from videos). I don't think it will hold value as well over time, and who knows what italian first-gen turbocharging is going to be like in another 10 years.... but it is also not a heck of a lot more than 458s cost now. I have come across more than one of these which had a motor replacement but I guess that is also heavily dependent on use and the owner too with these sorts of things.
The 458 then is a LOT more reliable and a BIT more desirable than everything that came before it and a BIT more reliable and a LOT more desirable than everything that came afterwards
View attachment 30969 View attachment 30970 View attachment 30971
View attachment 30973
I’d go for the 458 over the 488, I’m not terribly interested in speed anymore based on how I use my m5 now. More the way the car makes you feel and the experience.
I have also noticed a considerable jump since I last looked at them. Could find a decent one for 3.5 not that long ago. Now realistically you in the 4s.
I’d only buy one if I was doing it cash. Problem is justifying taking 4 bar out my cash flow and not feeling guilty about it.
Fortunately just bought some land to built some townhouses so forced myself to be sensible for now. So will be keeping the m5 for now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TBP88
Well-known member
This is exactly where I am - the upgrade path for me would require an unholy amount of money to the extent that I barely even look at sportscars anymore.I've driven the new one a couple of times now and seen the wagon in person a couple of times too. It isn't for me, even if it cost what my F90 did.
There are even guys with 1 series and 2 series following your second point at this stage, such is the stupidity of new car prices. Without big deposits, some of these may land you with R30-40k/month car payments. You can save the cost of a "proper" mechanical refurb or upgrades in the space of a year (i.e.: new parts in a box or on pallets from BMW fitted by BMW). I have executed a 'lite version' of this strategy already with the Cayenne
For us mere mortals driving on our roads, there really isn't much more you can ask for. I have driven far more exotic things, yet when I get back into the F90 or 4C I am reminded of just how difficult a real upgrade is. It isn't that I think these are the pinnacle of anything and neither do I feel that they don't have capable equivalents from other brands... if you don't already have an F90 for instance then there isn't any reason not to want a G90.
It's just that if you already own something (or things) like these, it is difficult to reach up towards the replacements. Especially not when they cost many times more for arguably incremental gains or wildly different kinds of ownership experience in some cases. On the latter: E92 owners can probably relate to this because their upgrade path basically went extinct unless you're counting a GT3 perhaps? Many don't consider an F82 or G82 for that matter to be an "upgrade" to the experience they are after.
From a GT4 the obvious upgrade is a GT3 - 992s are R4m+, a nicely spec'd touring is more like R5m+. Assuming I can get close to R2m for my car in I'd be in for financing/saving another R3m? For what? back seats, 80hp and a nicer badge? Madness. I'm nowhere near a good enough driver to justify that (not even half good enough to justify a GT4!).
I think this is why you're seeing for the first time in a generation Ferrari's really depreciate 2nd hand. The new stuff is so unbelievably expensive, and the performance difference to a car 10 or even 20yrs old is meaningless on the road add to that the loss of manual/NA/move to hybrid/screen based interiors and uglier designs means the new stuff has a much lower floor than the older stuff (even taking into account how problematic some of the old cars are)...
I think the 430 and 360 are much better looking cars than either the 458 or 488, and lets be honest it has more than enough grunt for the weekend blast anywhere on out public roads.
As another plus those cars will probably never depreciate ( more so the modena or scuderia) so you can drive them 5 years or so for freeeeeeee.
If i could live the dream
As another plus those cars will probably never depreciate ( more so the modena or scuderia) so you can drive them 5 years or so for freeeeeeee.
If i could live the dream
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
You most certainly can have opinions about the 360 LOL I am not a huge fan.
The 430 is a nicer car by far and has a purity to it. There are manual conversion kits for these as well that can be done for around R450-500K using the existing F1 transmission. The 458 is a massive jump forwards from either though. I would probably do a special 430 (Scuds are over 5 bar already) or 458 over a 488 though.
Unfortunately while you may escape from depreciation, you will not escape maintenance (and parts availability measured in months to a year) on the older ones. You'll be lucky to be under 700K in maintenance/other costs over 5 years unless it is basically being undriven/pickled.
TBP88
Well-known member
I must be the minority that thinks 355>360>430 in terms of look, but 458 clearly is the peak in terms of *look*. 355 in terms of sound clears the lot by a huge margin.
The running cost of the italians will always be a huge turnoff. And at 4/5/6+ million you're into pretty seriously special 911...
The running cost of the italians will always be a huge turnoff. And at 4/5/6+ million you're into pretty seriously special 911...
Ferrari as a brand is beyond criteria such as performance,handling,quality of finish and more about the mystique of the brand.
Every model they have produced has its following and owners will bore one with the amount of praise they heap on their particular model.
For a new owner to enter the market they must be prepared to be fleeced when it comes to service time or breakdown time.
The 430 and 458 are undoubtedly very reliable and mostly economical cars by Ferrari standards.
My preference would be for a 430 rather than a 458 as it is pretty much bullet proof and all its kinks have been worked out by the enthusiast owners especially in the USA.
If you are considering Ferrari ownership do it for you will not be disappointed.
Every model they have produced has its following and owners will bore one with the amount of praise they heap on their particular model.
For a new owner to enter the market they must be prepared to be fleeced when it comes to service time or breakdown time.
The 430 and 458 are undoubtedly very reliable and mostly economical cars by Ferrari standards.
My preference would be for a 430 rather than a 458 as it is pretty much bullet proof and all its kinks have been worked out by the enthusiast owners especially in the USA.
If you are considering Ferrari ownership do it for you will not be disappointed.
