-
Read the WELCOME ALL BMWFANATICS post.
Llew's F10 M5
- Thread starter TurboLlew
- Start date
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
Been trying to secure something fairly unique from a crashed limited edition car overseas. Will keep you posted on that one if the buyer accepts my offer :smilebounce:
Been toying with the idea of doing a PnP speaker upgrade as well, just for the front, either B&O or Bavsound. I don't really care about the grilles or lighting but drivers should work at the power levels of the standard amp, so I have alerts set up in various places and there are a few individual drivers available on eBay already.
What I thought would be interesting to share is that I've discovered that the B&O System actually only has the front door tweeters and central motorised setup with a mid and tweeter that come with B&O logos on them 'behind the scenes'. The rest of the tweeters in the car, midrange drivers (LPG) and the amp (Lear) are from other suppliers.
Interesting considering how BMW has played with use of the Harman Kardon name before (eg: The S677A Top HiFi/DSP can be had in normal form and then labeled HK in the LCI). I don't doubt that they are decent, but I don't think those that forked out full price would be happy to not even see a B&O logo on the driver after all that money... I am sure if you asked them they would say it would be "Bang & Olufsen Approved" or something like that, but you would think with all the branding going on and even brake pads having M logos on them and eg: the M Performance system having Akrapovic logos all over it even where people can't normally see, they would think to have B&O name on these components even if they are contract manufactured.
Looking at pricing of the drivers on ETK/Real OEM it is evident that the drivers are not that much more expensive than normal units fitted to the TopHiFi System (100 vs 65 euros - they do have better magnets and cones). The Grilles however are extremely expensive (double to triple the price of the drivers themselves)... soooo... it stands to reason a big part of the cost is literally the B&O branding.
I didn't notice a big difference between the M6 loaner I had last year that had B&O and my car which has the 677 DSP system. However it did have a bit tighter/less muddy bass and a better sounding (to my ear) tweeter that was less harsh at higher volume (not that I listen at high volume often). I am sure more differences would become evident as the system was run in. However, it was not R45K better than an already expensive system to my ears, besides which the M5 doesn't have the extra lighting that the 6 and 7ers get... That said, it was good enough that if I could swap in a set of drivers relatively inexpensively (few grand) for the front stage and maybe a bit more for the Bavsound Ghost subs, I wouldn't mind the change if I didn't have to cut any wires or change amps etc.
Gert may know more detail behind this from an electronics perspective maybe. From reading, it seems if you code the B&O system menus, even the effect for studio and expanded can work with the HK/677 amp (don't know if it really is that similar but the internet said so LOL)
Been toying with the idea of doing a PnP speaker upgrade as well, just for the front, either B&O or Bavsound. I don't really care about the grilles or lighting but drivers should work at the power levels of the standard amp, so I have alerts set up in various places and there are a few individual drivers available on eBay already.
What I thought would be interesting to share is that I've discovered that the B&O System actually only has the front door tweeters and central motorised setup with a mid and tweeter that come with B&O logos on them 'behind the scenes'. The rest of the tweeters in the car, midrange drivers (LPG) and the amp (Lear) are from other suppliers.
Interesting considering how BMW has played with use of the Harman Kardon name before (eg: The S677A Top HiFi/DSP can be had in normal form and then labeled HK in the LCI). I don't doubt that they are decent, but I don't think those that forked out full price would be happy to not even see a B&O logo on the driver after all that money... I am sure if you asked them they would say it would be "Bang & Olufsen Approved" or something like that, but you would think with all the branding going on and even brake pads having M logos on them and eg: the M Performance system having Akrapovic logos all over it even where people can't normally see, they would think to have B&O name on these components even if they are contract manufactured.
Looking at pricing of the drivers on ETK/Real OEM it is evident that the drivers are not that much more expensive than normal units fitted to the TopHiFi System (100 vs 65 euros - they do have better magnets and cones). The Grilles however are extremely expensive (double to triple the price of the drivers themselves)... soooo... it stands to reason a big part of the cost is literally the B&O branding.
I didn't notice a big difference between the M6 loaner I had last year that had B&O and my car which has the 677 DSP system. However it did have a bit tighter/less muddy bass and a better sounding (to my ear) tweeter that was less harsh at higher volume (not that I listen at high volume often). I am sure more differences would become evident as the system was run in. However, it was not R45K better than an already expensive system to my ears, besides which the M5 doesn't have the extra lighting that the 6 and 7ers get... That said, it was good enough that if I could swap in a set of drivers relatively inexpensively (few grand) for the front stage and maybe a bit more for the Bavsound Ghost subs, I wouldn't mind the change if I didn't have to cut any wires or change amps etc.
Gert may know more detail behind this from an electronics perspective maybe. From reading, it seems if you code the B&O system menus, even the effect for studio and expanded can work with the HK/677 amp (don't know if it really is that similar but the internet said so LOL)
Ratslaaf
///Member
Interesting research you’ve done there Bud.
My last F10 had SA677 TopHifi with DSP installed and, to be honest, had performed pretty much exactly to my liking. When set up correctly, it had enough oomph and punch for my type of music and was a pleasure to listen to. My new F80 has the HK system SA688 and, to be perfectly honest, I preferred the system in the F10. Yes, the HK system has a little more clarity, but then again is much more sensitive to music source. This may actually lead to more irritation than enjoyment at the end of the day. Also, the HK setup doesn’t have nearly the presence of the Top Hifi setup, sounding a bit more aneamic at the end of the day.
The point is, yes the HK system is audibly a little more accurate as far as SQ is concerned, but also more critical of the quality of your source music. For general enjoyment while on the road, I would advise against going for the HK system in general. Unless you listen critically and your music preference leans towards that kinda music. Not many people do and may lead to disappointment against the TopHifi system as in my case.
My last F10 had SA677 TopHifi with DSP installed and, to be honest, had performed pretty much exactly to my liking. When set up correctly, it had enough oomph and punch for my type of music and was a pleasure to listen to. My new F80 has the HK system SA688 and, to be perfectly honest, I preferred the system in the F10. Yes, the HK system has a little more clarity, but then again is much more sensitive to music source. This may actually lead to more irritation than enjoyment at the end of the day. Also, the HK setup doesn’t have nearly the presence of the Top Hifi setup, sounding a bit more aneamic at the end of the day.
The point is, yes the HK system is audibly a little more accurate as far as SQ is concerned, but also more critical of the quality of your source music. For general enjoyment while on the road, I would advise against going for the HK system in general. Unless you listen critically and your music preference leans towards that kinda music. Not many people do and may lead to disappointment against the TopHifi system as in my case.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
So this is another addition I did just to be a bit different and to have something a bit special on the car. Only something a passenger or I will see anyway. Not trying to pass it off as a 30 Jahre of course. Just a limited run individual part I otherwise wouldn't be able to get here or order easily.
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
So I decided to try my hand at ceramic coating the bahnstormer.
Just back from some suspension work at the dealer, I figured it was a good time to give it a much needed detail:
Clay, iron decontamination with Car Chem Revolt, degrease, AutoGlym HD Paint cleaner, Menzerna FG400 followed by Gyeon Primer. Used Menzerna compounding and finishing pad respectively on a Shield DAS6 DA polisher. Prepped surface with Gyeon Prep and Gyeon Bald Wipes, then applied a new and relatively inexpensive coating called Gyeon One. Applied a coat of "Cure" which is a sacrificial layer whilst curing and also the 'top up' wipe on product (which I will apply periodically)
Prior to all this, I did a few minor touch ups with the dealer 'nailpolish' kit which I sanded down and FG400 had no issues removing the P2500 sanding marks.
I have been a user of Fusso for the past year and a bit - I've gotten good beading results on everything except the bonnet and fenders which get extremely hot. Gloss is not Fusso's forte. I had read a lot about coatings over the past year and thought it was a good time to give it a try. There is almost a warning/disclaimer that companies give you before you consider a ceramic coating... that the prep needs to be absolutely perfect, the paint should be in good shape etc. Was enough to put me off trying for a long time. However, I found Gyeon One (Admittedly their entry level enthusiast coating) very easy to use and I will be stepping up to one of the higher end coatings when my next car arrives.
People talk about an almost candy gloss and extremely 'glassy' look... It doesn't quite prepare you for the difference vs. a sealant or wax IMHO (and it lasts 12 months as well but time will tell on this!).
The entire detail took me around 15 hours. I am sure I could have done it in less with one of the newer Rupes machines for instance. I am also sure a pro could have done it quicker and better. It is somehow therapeutic for me allowing me to disconnect from work life and applying my mind and body in a different way. Like I said before, I don't know how detailers justify doing a job like this for 3000 including their product. It is just so labour intensive.
Speaking of Rupes Bigfoot, after seeing one in action, I am thinking of selling my trusty DAS6 and stepping up to one of these.
Very satisfied with the results considering the age of the paint and the fact that the car is a daily too. Pics don't really tell the whole story... My car is a high-miler for an M car - both a daily and my family car that has seen MANY MANY trips to the coast, Sun City, Warmbaths etc etc.
I've got some Gyeon Bathe+ and Gyeon Wet Coat to keep it in shape until this time next year...
Semi Sun
Full Sun
Glassy Look
Couple of guys on the forum have seen it so far and been impressed. Will post more pics this weekend.
Just back from some suspension work at the dealer, I figured it was a good time to give it a much needed detail:
Clay, iron decontamination with Car Chem Revolt, degrease, AutoGlym HD Paint cleaner, Menzerna FG400 followed by Gyeon Primer. Used Menzerna compounding and finishing pad respectively on a Shield DAS6 DA polisher. Prepped surface with Gyeon Prep and Gyeon Bald Wipes, then applied a new and relatively inexpensive coating called Gyeon One. Applied a coat of "Cure" which is a sacrificial layer whilst curing and also the 'top up' wipe on product (which I will apply periodically)
Prior to all this, I did a few minor touch ups with the dealer 'nailpolish' kit which I sanded down and FG400 had no issues removing the P2500 sanding marks.
I have been a user of Fusso for the past year and a bit - I've gotten good beading results on everything except the bonnet and fenders which get extremely hot. Gloss is not Fusso's forte. I had read a lot about coatings over the past year and thought it was a good time to give it a try. There is almost a warning/disclaimer that companies give you before you consider a ceramic coating... that the prep needs to be absolutely perfect, the paint should be in good shape etc. Was enough to put me off trying for a long time. However, I found Gyeon One (Admittedly their entry level enthusiast coating) very easy to use and I will be stepping up to one of the higher end coatings when my next car arrives.
People talk about an almost candy gloss and extremely 'glassy' look... It doesn't quite prepare you for the difference vs. a sealant or wax IMHO (and it lasts 12 months as well but time will tell on this!).
The entire detail took me around 15 hours. I am sure I could have done it in less with one of the newer Rupes machines for instance. I am also sure a pro could have done it quicker and better. It is somehow therapeutic for me allowing me to disconnect from work life and applying my mind and body in a different way. Like I said before, I don't know how detailers justify doing a job like this for 3000 including their product. It is just so labour intensive.
Speaking of Rupes Bigfoot, after seeing one in action, I am thinking of selling my trusty DAS6 and stepping up to one of these.
Very satisfied with the results considering the age of the paint and the fact that the car is a daily too. Pics don't really tell the whole story... My car is a high-miler for an M car - both a daily and my family car that has seen MANY MANY trips to the coast, Sun City, Warmbaths etc etc.
I've got some Gyeon Bathe+ and Gyeon Wet Coat to keep it in shape until this time next year...
Semi Sun
Full Sun
Glassy Look
Couple of guys on the forum have seen it so far and been impressed. Will post more pics this weekend.
BeemerFanatic
Events Organiser
Stunning,:thumbs:
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
It's that time again...
Decided to go with MPSS again more to match the fronts that are still in good shape. Pilot Sport 4S is the replacement tyre. However I've found the PSS to work really well for me. No complaints or qualms going for it yet again. #400kWDaily things...
JSN came to the party on price (like R1K cheaper per tyre, fitted and balanced than I could find elsewhere including at mate's shops)
Will be fitting them next week probably as there is a new road force balancing machine that is being installed which I am keen to have them balanced on after the issues I've had in the past at other places (last set had to be balanced 5x and eventually at a different tyre place with a new machine to get them right).
Playing with the idea of having the rims fully refurbed (stripped, chips filled, painted and straightened if needed) but with the stories I've read I am not sure I am up for the issues, especially getting a multispoke rim correctly covered and polished... Not sure anyone has the required attention to detail. Any recommendations?
Decided to go with MPSS again more to match the fronts that are still in good shape. Pilot Sport 4S is the replacement tyre. However I've found the PSS to work really well for me. No complaints or qualms going for it yet again. #400kWDaily things...
JSN came to the party on price (like R1K cheaper per tyre, fitted and balanced than I could find elsewhere including at mate's shops)
Will be fitting them next week probably as there is a new road force balancing machine that is being installed which I am keen to have them balanced on after the issues I've had in the past at other places (last set had to be balanced 5x and eventually at a different tyre place with a new machine to get them right).
Playing with the idea of having the rims fully refurbed (stripped, chips filled, painted and straightened if needed) but with the stories I've read I am not sure I am up for the issues, especially getting a multispoke rim correctly covered and polished... Not sure anyone has the required attention to detail. Any recommendations?
BeemerFanatic
Events Organiser
Nice. How many kms did you get on the last set of rears?
TurboLlew
Honorary ///Member
BeemerFanatic said:
Tried to find the last invoice but it's at least 36000km believe it or not :cthulhu:
Pilot Super Sports are made using a dark ritual of sorts and last a very long time. My fronts still have a long way to go... I will probably get another 10-15k at least out of them if I had to guess.
I think they actually have a 30000 mile warranty in the states if you have rotatable fitment and 15000 miles if you have split fitments front and rear like our cars do.
BeemerFanatic
Events Organiser
Wow not bad mileage on the rears for such a powerful car
One day when I grow up I want an m5 when I turn 50 and an m4 when I turn 40 and an m6 when I turn 60 :cartel:
One day when I grow up I want an m5 when I turn 50 and an m4 when I turn 40 and an m6 when I turn 60 :cartel:
Proper tires there ... Michelin's in my experience always seem to give good mileage..and with that power, you did really good with that mileage... its worth the extra money.
i like this ideaBeemerFanatic said:
BeemerFanatic
Events Organiser
7 series with a chauffeur :thumbs:
